Accusump / Oil pressure advice

[f1racr]

Hi guys,

Just wondering if you can help me with what is no doubt an easy question........well I hope it's straight forward...... !!

I've got an accumsump setup for my race car, but since we've not run the engine before (and won't be able to for a good couple of months I'd say) I am trying to get an idea of what oil pressure the engines usually run (well a range really) when used for track work ?

I'm trying to understand which electronic valve to choose (25psi, 30-35PSI, 55-60 PSI etc etc ) ??

The guy from Canton was really helpful, but needed to really know what sort of oil pressure I wanted the accusump to work at before he could suggest the right model, but as I said, at the moment we have no idea, so looking for some advice please on what others who have accusumps have done.......

 

[nsxnut]

None.

I had trouble with the canton valve. I know of others that had the same issue.

The Moroso valve works well. I have had it in my car for the last 4-5 years no issue. the Canton valve lasted ~6-9 months.

http://www.moroso.com/catalog/categorydisplay.asp?catcode=23907

I believe I have 23905 It is wired up to the cruse control switch.
When the switch is depressed the valve is open. When disabled it is closed.

Later,
Don

 

[f1racr]

Thanks Don,

Yeah I've had a quick chat with Shad from Driving Ambition who backed up exactly what you've just posted also regarding the Moroso valve instead of the Canton valve !

I purchased a Moroso valve this morning so I'll be going down the same track as you have.

Shad seemed to think that the NSX sees around 65-75PSI at peak or there abouts so it's good info to have regardless.......

Thanks for your reply Don.

 

[e.pie]

FWIW I have a manual valve on my Accusump. So far it has worked flawlessly. I prefer the simple, infallible design of the ball valve. I've heard too many stories of the electric valves breaking.

 

[f1racr]

Yes I agree about the manual approach, but the problem for me is that I have had to locate mine in the trunk due to space restraints in the cabin, and once I'm strapped into the car, I don't want to have to get in and out of the cabin (not an easy feat with a tight cage and a larger than average driver) to keep turning it on and off as needed so a simple electronic valve is an easy fix. I can easily put a warning light with it so that if it fails to open I will at least know about it.

I think the unreliability comes from the constant opening and closing of the Canton units from what I can understand........ obviously not well tested enough for the job, but it seems the Moroso units are reliable based on the small amount of feedback I've had at least.

 

[e.pie]

Mine is in the trunk too, I'm not too worried about the extra oil that goes in to the pan when I hit the pits, it fills up no problem with a cold start when the oil is still thick.

 

[nsxnut]

I think the unreliability comes from the constant opening and closing of the Canton units from what I can understand........ obviously not well tested enough for the job, but it seems the Moroso units are reliable based on the small amount of feedback I've had at least.

The Diaphragm in my valve ruptured. I believe the Moroso valve may be less restrictive flow wise. I haven't heard any issues with the Moroso valve.
Mine is working well.

 

[f1racr]

Did you mean Diaphragm ?

I just think having an electronic valve means I will be able to give the car a rev before I switch it off and "charge" up the accusump as it were, then before I start it next time I can just open the valve and let it push oil back before I start it cold.

On the track I'm assuming you'll get different use patterns compared to it being used on the street. What I mean is, on a street car you'll probably find that the accusump is hardly ever really required, where as a race car with slicks on could require assistance from the Accusump more often so you run the risk of coming into the pits with it half empty or worse so it would need to "charged" back up again.

Not sure about all the above, just thinking out loud.

 

[Canton_Nick]

Hello All,

I am the tech service manager for Canton and i stumbled upon this on the web. Reading through this i see there are some concerns with our valves and how they work and etc.

For the member with the torn diaphragm, please contact me immediately at 203-481-9460 as I will take car of that.

Reading through there is alot of comparison to the Moroso valve. They actually use the same valve we stopped using. It is a Goyen valve. Our EPC valves are made to discharge when the oil pressure is below the threshold of the switch. The unit comes with a toggle switch so it can be turned off when a vehicle is in the pits.

The Electric setups are very efficient and if installed correctly is relatively maintenence free. When we went to the new valve which we are currently using, we spent almost 2 months testing that valve before we decided it was to our standards.

If anyone has an issue with our valve or ANY of our products, please contact me.

Thank You

Nick Ansaldi
Customer Service/ Technical Service Manager
203-481-9460

 

[f1racr]

Thanks for taking the time to post here Nick........ it's good to have a manufacturer who bothers to respond to internet chit chat.

Unfortunately for now I've already purchased the Moroso valve so I will probably continue as I planned for now and if I have any issues then I will try one of the new Canton valves......

It might pay you to contact Shad from Driving Ambition and a few other similar tuners who haven't had a good history with the old valves and maybe look at supplying them with a new valve to test ??? Pretty hard for someone like me to go against the advice of someone so experienced.....

Thanks again for taking the time.

 

[Canton_Nick]

I understand fully that you already have a valve. Im glad you are using our accusump and hope that you enjoy it. I will try to get in contact with Shad.

We have a very well known NSX driver known as Jim Cozzolino and he SWEARS by our accusump and valving. He has a full GT class Turbo NSX that he drives to the track, races a full day, and then drives the car home in the heat of Arizona.

Thank you for using our products and I hope you are satisfied with the performance of them.

 

[Coz]

+1 for Nick.
I drive my car daily and track it 24+ days a year and never have had any issues with the Canton valve.

I understand fully that you already have a valve. Im glad you are using our accusump and hope that you enjoy it. I will try to get in contact with Shad.

We have a very well known NSX driver known as Jim Cozzolino and he SWEARS by our accusump and valving. He has a full GT class Turbo NSX that he drives to the track, races a full day, and then drives the car home in the heat of Arizona.

Thank you for using our products and I hope you are satisfied with the performance of them.

 

[f1racr]

Thanks for the feedback Coz.

I guess as an unknown quantity for me, I could only take the advice of the people who responded to my original post and those I'd specifically asked and I got the same feedback from them which was that the Canton valves weren't reliable long term.

I did think it was a bit strange as I'd guessed that they would have sold enough of the units to have seen any issues and corrected them, but I had to go with what I was being told in the absence of any other feedback.

It's clear from your post and Nick's that any issues that might have been there seem to be resolved now, so I guess for myself and other people considering the Canton valves, they now have some good information to work with, which is what I guess forums are all about.

Thanks again to you and Nick for your posts, it's great to get some useful info back when you create a new topic !

 

[Coz]

My pleasure and no worries...
In the long run, everyone has to do whats best for them and what they feel comfortable with. It is your motor at risk.

Regardless what valve you use, I know you can trust Canton Racing Products Accusump.

You made a great decision adding it to you car....

BTW, you do have a baffled oil pan, right ?

Thanks for the feedback Coz.

I guess as an unknown quantity for me, I could only take the advice of the people who responded to my original post and those I'd specifically asked and I got the same feedback from them which was that the Canton valves weren't reliable long term.

I did think it was a bit strange as I'd guessed that they would have sold enough of the units to have seen any issues and corrected them, but I had to go with what I was being told in the absence of any other feedback.

It's clear from your post and Nick's that any issues that might have been there seem to be resolved now, so I guess for myself and other people considering the Canton valves, they now have some good information to work with, which is what I guess forums are all about.

Thanks again to you and Nick for your posts, it's great to get some useful info back when you create a new topic !

 

[f1racr]

Yes we have baffled the oil pan.

Thanks again

 

[integrals]

I just installed a CANTON based system after checking out COZ'z setup. My car is still a stock engine but it takes a beating chasing COZ around the track.

I am confident in the setup!

 

[Hrant]

I have been having some problems with my Moroso valve (with electric start hook up at the cruise control). Recently, it has leaked and Shad twice tried to clean it up - something seems to cause it to block the flow/pressurizing (occasionally) and yet again, this just after some 150 miles it did it again!

When fully operational, I can hear the valve open and the pressure starts at about 25 psi when dumping oil. When it is temperamental - after sitting for a week or two, you hardly hear the valve open and the pressure is just about 5-7 psi. So I guess it must be losing pressure (set at about 60-65 psi) and leaking since I see oil in the fender liner and the floor behind the rear tire - the Accusump is located inside the rear fender.

I too heard the issues with the previous Canton valves, if the newer Canton valve is "now" the better valve, perhaps it is time to swap this headache ..........

 

[Coz]

Hrant,

I have mine hooked up the same way with the cruise control

I've had my canton Valve now for over a year and I haven't had any leaking or failures from the valve itself.

Are you sure it's not leaking somewhere within the pipe thread fittings. I did at one point get some leaking from the pipe thread area's. Have since taken them a part, cleaned them up, applied plumbers dope (seal) on the pipe threads and they haven't leaked at all since.

I have been having some problems with my Moroso valve (with electric start hook up at the cruise control). Recently, it has leaked and Shad twice tried to clean it up - something seems to cause it to block the flow/pressurizing (occasionally) and yet again, this just after some 150 miles it did it again!

When fully operational, I can hear the valve open and the pressure starts at about 25 psi when dumping oil. When it is temperamental - after sitting for a week or two, you hardly hear the valve open and the pressure is just about 5-7 psi. So I guess it most be losing pressure (set at about 60-65 psi) and leaking since I see oil in the fender liner and the floor behind the rear tire.

I too heard the issues with the previous Canton valves, if the newer Canton valve is "now" the better valve, perhaps it is time to swap this headache ..........

 

[Hrant]

Coz, thanks for the feedback. The first time, Shad took the entire Accusump out and opened/cleaned it, he even called the manufacturer assuming the failure was from inside the Accusump; that is not a failure area and would not be the cause. The second time, he thought it was coming from the valve being clogged. We thought it was fixed after a few tests on/off and driving around his shop. About 3 weeks later (the NSX was parked all that time) I see oil behind the tire and activating the Accusump barely registered above 5 psi!

When I test it back to back (engine warm), I can see the pressure and hear the valve open. When it has been sitting for a long time is when it seems to lose the pressure.

Not sure if this is a fitting syndrome but its woth checking but I still suspect the valve .... it is getting to be a hassle since I am missing track action :wink:

 

[Coz]

It defiantly sounds like your getting some pressure loss somewhere in the system while it sits. As you know, even as it sits the Accusump still holds pressure, or it should anyway as a closed system.

So when you shut the car down, the Accusump is at 80 to 90 PSI, correct ?
Then after it sits for a week or so, where's the pressure at before you start the car ?

Sure sounds like a fitting some where that's leaking Hrant and with the constant pressure from the Accusump pushing the oil out while it sits somewhere between the Accusump itself and the valve.
If the valve was stuck open, there would be no pressure in the Accusump and all the oil would end up in your pan when it's not running since that's where it would drain to.

Could be wrong, but a fitting some where would be my guess.

I just relocated my set up.

Coz, thanks for the feedback. The first time, Shad took the entire Accusump out and opened/cleaned it, he even called the manufacturer assuming the failure was from inside the Accusump; that is not a failure area and would not be the cause. The second time, he thought it was coming from the valve being clogged. We thought it was fixed after a few tests on/off and driving around his shop. About 3 weeks later (the NSX was parked all that time) I see oil behind the tire and activating the Accusump barely registered above 5 psi!

When I test it back to back (engine warm), I can see the pressure and hear the valve open. When it has been sitting for a long time is when it seems to lose the pressure.

Not sure if this is a fitting syndrome but its woth checking but I still suspect the valve .... it is getting to be a hassle since I am missing track action :wink:

 

[nsxnut]

Could it be leaking from the pressure relief valve?

Maybe as a test remove and replace with a plug.

You should use Teflon tape on all the pipe fittings. Without they will leak.
I use the extra thick Yellow intended for gas lines.

The Mounting Clamps for the accusump should be place on the ends. If not they can deform the cylinder if over tightened.

Good luck and Happy new year.

Later,
Don

 

[Coz]

There's a thought, the pressure relief valve...
I used the yellow tape myself on the pipe threads, lasted about 6 months and started to leak. Thats why I changed to the plumbers dope which so far as held up.

Yes, I know on the clamps. Need to still move the one on the left.

http://www.accusump.com/accusump.pdf/instructions.pdf

Could it be leaking from the pressure relief valve?

Maybe as a test remove and replace with a plug.

You should use Teflon tape on all the pipe fittings. Without they will leak.
I use the extra thick Yellow intended for gas lines.

The Mounting Clamps for the accusump should be place on the ends. If not they can deform the cylinder if over tightened.

Good luck and Happy new year.

Later,
Don

 

[nsxnut]

Yes, I know on the clamps. Need to still move the one on the left.

http://www.accusump.com/accusump.pdf/instructions.pdf

Not trying to give you a hard time.
Ideally both sides. They should be as close to the end cap as possible.
I have mine mounted in the trunk at the same spot. I was able to get both clamps at the ends.

Good Luck.

Later,
Don

 

[nsxnut]

This was in the ACCUSUMP™ INSTALLATION & OPERATION INSTRUCTIONS about leaks.

This was taken from the Link Coz provided.

Accusump™ leaking
To locate the source of the leak check all lines, fittings, and gauges. Leaks on the oil side of the unit are likely to produce an oil drip. Leaks on the air side of the unit can be found by pressurizing the unit to 60 psi then applying soapy
water to each area and checking for bubbles. Inspect and tighten any leaking fittings or gauges. To verify your unit
is leak free we recommend pressurizing the unit to 60 psi then waiting overnight to confirm the unit has retained the
pressure. Note: A temperature change will affect pressure.

Pipe Threads
We recommend using Teflon Tape on the pipe thread to help seal and allow for easy removal. All other methods such
as pipe dope, silicon, and liquid Teflon are not recommended. All fittings that directly thread into the Accusump™ are
pipe threads.

AN Style Fittings
The AN style fittings and hose ends seal on an angled seat. If there is a leak in one of these connections check for
a nick in the sealing seat.

Pressure Relief Valve
If the pressure relief valve is allowing oil to escape, it is an indication that the unit has been set-up incorrectly. The
relief valve is rated at 175 psi. and it is rare that they fail. Check your installation instructions and reset your
pre-charge. Under no circumstances should you replace the pressure relief valve with a plug.

Reasons For a Leaky Pressure Relief Valve
1) Pre-charge set incorrectly, instructions not followed, review the "Setting the Pre-Charge" section of this manual
on page #5.

2) An air leak is causing the unit to lose it’s pre-charge and become hydraulically locked.

3) Pressure relief valve needs tightening or teflon tape to seal.

4) The Accusump™ tube is dented or bent in a way to keep the piston from moving.

5) Contamination is caught in the relief valve from previous purging causing a small drip leak.

6) The unit is mounted in a way that twists or distorts the tube that would keep the piston from moving.

7) The unit is mounted next to a high heat source, causing the oil to expand greatly while the valve is closed.

8) The engine system pressure exceeds 175 psi.

9) Defective safety valve, send to the factory to be checked. (very rare)

End Cap
Leaks around the threaded end cap are very rare, unless the unit has been severely damaged. If oil is leaking around
the threaded end cap, the unit should be sent back to the factory to be checked out and have the o-rings seals
replaced, if that is the problem.

 

[Hrant]

Coz and Don, good feedback. I'll ask Shad to test these. Also, this quote caught my eye: Keep the dust cap on the air valve to prevent the introduction of dirt into the air end of the unit.

Not sure if the dust cap is on or not. If not, perhaps enough dirt is flowing from the oil cooler to get into the air valve? Since the Accusump is mounted inside the fender, I have to jack the car, take the bottom fender covers from under and then do all the readings ...... at my age, my bones like this to be done on a lift :tongue: