3.6L ScienceofSpeed Engine (NA Stroker)

[Honcho]

Assuming that big bronze casting at the engine base is part of the engine solution and not just a stand ... what is it? Perhaps part of the dry sump system? or a very large engine mount ???

I believe it is part of the mount. This engine was mounted longitudinally in the JGTC NSX with the timing belt facing the rear of the car. The transmission (Hewland Sequential) was mounted in front of the engine.

 

[sparky]

ahah - v. interesting, and radical !

 

[enkrypt3d]

Assuming that big bronze casting at the engine base is part of the engine solution and not just a stand ... what is it? Perhaps part of the dry sump system? or a very large engine mount ???

Well theres no oil pan so it looks like there is some sort of ducting for the oil to go in and out....

 

[Mac Attack]

Wow Ponyboy, sorry about all your tough luck with the engine these past 4-5 years. Sounds like it's all coming together now and hopefully was worth the wait!

Dave

 

[Ponyboy]

Just outta curiosity, what was ur thought process in selecting pistons? And which one did u get? 4032 or 2618 alloy?

"hey Christoferson, what pistons are we going to use? wiseco...b/c they have better tolerances and less blow-by? Okay, sounds good."

That was about my totality in the selection process.

Did u look into JE as well?

Not that I remember. The previous Arias consumed a bit of oil and the Wiseco pistons made slightly better power and torque.

Wow Ponyboy, sorry about all your tough luck with the engine these past 4-5 years. Sounds like it's all coming together now and hopefully was worth the wait!

Dave

Thanks for the kind words, Dave. It has been a long time coming but the end result is what I've wanted. I wish another NSXer was local so they could objectively comment on the car so it's not just me gushing on about it.

 

[TANTO]

I generalized about strokers being "stupid" for the track. Obviously those with deep pockets can make about anything work, at least for a few races. My point was that for 99% of folks who want a near bulletproof track car, common sense dictates to keep piston speed stock or slower and super or turbo. And of course Shad and other Realtime folks have given us the empirical evidence for this. I stick to my short mileage estimates for strokers and my coating comments. There is no free ride. Hondas safety factors are very small. I do not want to hurt Shad or SOS and i perhaps my comments should not be in an "Science of Speed" thread. Sorry about that Chris, we are VERY happy with your developement of this engine. Having built my own engines i would prefer to build my own NSX engine, especially since i believe these motors will need a refresh now and then. My desire in a thread like this is to find out the details so we can weigh all the factors ourselves and build them ourselves. I don't think my comments will cause a loss of business for SOS. Few want to do this themselves. Again while a believe a strokers mileage will be reduced. It will not be reduced to the point to scare me away. We should probably take "generalized stroker build data" to a non SOS thread out of respect for SOS's work. Probably to the build section(?) How about slicing up the build section into "track cars", "steet cars", supercharged engines, turbocharged engines, strokers, and stock displacement NA. Ane then we can do threads on cranks, pistons, rods, heads, intake, etc. It's impossible to post comments that relate to so many areas. Any takers?

 

[naaman]

I generalized about strokers being "stupid" for the track. Obviously those with deep pockets can make about anything work, at least for a few races. My point was that for 99% of folks who want a near bulletproof track car, common sense dictates to keep piston speed stock or slower and super or turbo. And of course Shad and other Realtime folks have given us the empirical evidence for this. I stick to my short mileage estimates for strokers and my coating comments. There is no free ride. Hondas safety factors are very small. I do not want to hurt Shad or SOS and i perhaps my comments should not be in an "Science of Speed" thread. Sorry about that Chris, we are VERY happy with your developement of this engine. Having built my own engines i would prefer to build my own NSX engine, especially since i believe these motors will need a refresh now and then. My desire in a thread like this is to find out the details so we can weigh all the factors ourselves and build them ourselves. I don't think my comments will cause a loss of business for SOS. Few want to do this themselves. Again while a believe a strokers mileage will be reduced. It will not be reduced to the point to scare me away. We should probably take "generalized stroker build data" to a non SOS thread out of respect for SOS's work. Probably to the build section(?) How about slicing up the build section into "track cars", "steet cars", supercharged engines, turbocharged engines, strokers, and stock displacement NA. Ane then we can do threads on cranks, pistons, rods, heads, intake, etc. It's impossible to post comments that relate to so many areas. Any takers?

I totally agree here.

Often, when I'm trying to get at some real answers, I'll mention the things that I understand to be true in hopes that experts with either confirm or correct me.

Also, another forum I visit has the threads broken down into categories like you suggest: General, Interal Engine, External Engine, Drivetrain (with sub-forums for Manual and auto), Suspension, Chassis, Wheels/Tires etc... I think that this forum could benefit from separate threads for various applications or at the least a separate forum for internal and external engine. I +1 what TANTO is suggesting.

 

[Track Addict]

Congrats Ponyboy and to the SOS crew for putting together a very impressive car/engine. I really envy the ITBs on your car *drool* and will likely end up with an SOS set myself one day. Personally, I think that the 3.6 stroker kit you chose to build your car to suits YOUR situation perfectly. Everyone thinking about doing their own "build" needs to weigh in all the factors (as you have) and make the decision that is best for them.

I am likely to build my C30 my own way and there will be many here on Prime that will tell me I should've gone with XX piston or XX component, but in the end you consulted the people that have the experience and track record in building reliable power from this engine. Kudos to you and your checkbook. Please keep us posted on your enjoyment of this very well documented build. I hope to see this car in person sometime.

edit: Thank you for posting the extremely valuable technical data that you have obtained. Those charts really do tell a great story.

 

[Ponyboy]

So how many stroker engines are out there, and how many miles have the accumulated since the install? Any tear downs after a few thousand miles to asses whether wear and tear has increased?

Stroker Club thread here. I haven't done the exact mileage but I think I have at least 2k on my engine with a few AX days thrown in there.

It's likely that my engine will be torn down in a few years to install billet main caps, etc. I'll be sure to relay wear patterns and thoughts if this thread is still alive.

Really though, the thought that a stroker engine is any more wear inducing than a stock engine with FI added is a bit paranoid. Mentioning the fractional increase in piston speed, or rod ratio, with a stroker w/o mentioning the increased combustion pressure, increased main cap pressure, increased piston and ring land forces heat issues, etc of an FI'd engine is misleading. This isn't commenting on the added complexity of an FI system.

Does adding more hp and torque to an engine produce more wear and tear? Inherently, the answer is yes - irrespective of the means to achieve it. Does either stroker or FI guarantee certain failure or a rebuild in 1000 miles? No, not it if the components are chosen with a modicum of wisdom and the engine built correctly.

FWIW, the next project is a 3.5 turbo stroker but not for many moons to come.

 

[Ponyboy]

Congrats Ponyboy and to the SOS crew for putting together a very impressive car/engine. I really envy the ITBs on your car *drool* and will likely end up with an SOS set myself one day. Personally, I think that the 3.6 stroker kit you chose to build your car to suits YOUR situation perfectly. Everyone thinking about doing their own "build" needs to weigh in all the factors (as you have) and make the decision that is best for them.

I am likely to build my C30 my own way and there will be many here on Prime that will tell me I should've gone with XX piston or XX component, but in the end you consulted the people that have the experience and track record in building reliable power from this engine. Kudos to you and your checkbook. Please keep us posted on your enjoyment of this very well documented build. I hope to see this car in person sometime.

edit: Thank you for posting the extremely valuable technical data that you have obtained. Those charts really do tell a great story.

Thank you. I hope you get to see the car in person too! The amount of active local NSXers is small and I'd really like to get someone else's perspective of the car and engine (obvious bias on my part).

 

[Ponyboy]

Some photos from the pickup last weekend:

SoS showing me how to install and tune the ITB flow.

Hood pins, barely notice:

Loading up:

 

[naaman]

While I'm not a fan of red or the Type-R spoiler, I must say, the stance, the wheels and other cosmetic subtleties make this car look hot.

 

[Track Addict]

The airbox in your pictures is absolutely amazing...any pictures of the complete assembly? Is that what SOS is planning on offering with their ITB kits? YOU CAN'T TEASE US LIKE THIS!


Love the red with the accents you have put on it...though I am sad that you decided NOT to drive it home, Just sayin'.

 

[Ponyboy]

The airbox in your pictures is absolutely amazing...any pictures of the complete assembly? Is that what SOS is planning on offering with their ITB kits? YOU CAN'T TEASE US LIKE THIS!

Here you go...however, it's not totally complete. The end result will include the stock airbox and filter element to keep it as OE looking as possible. Excuse the crap photos, I took these this morning. Haven't even had time to wash the car since we got back.

Love the red with the accents you have put on it...though I am sad that you decided NOT to drive it home, Just sayin'.

Family of 4 is a little hard to fit in the cabin of the NSX. In a diesel F250 though, we're all good.

 

[BATMANs]

Here you go...however, it's not totally complete. The end result will include the stock airbox and filter element to keep it as OE looking as possible......

So the completed part will eliminate the warm air intake?

 

[Honcho]

DROOL :biggrin:

 

[naaman]

Here you go...however, it's not totally complete. The end result will include the stock airbox and filter element to keep it as OE looking as possible. Excuse the crap photos, I took these this morning. Haven't even had time to wash the car since we got back.

Family of 4 is a little hard to fit in the cabin of the NSX. In a diesel F250 though, we're all good.

I think I read somewhere (maybe Dan's thread) that covering the ITBs reduced power. Are you noticing any difference in power since the box was added (or have you even tried it without the box)?

 

[Ponyboy]

So the completed part will eliminate the warm air intake?

Indeed. It'll work just like the stock airbox.

I think I read somewhere (maybe Dan's thread) that covering the ITBs reduced power. Are you noticing any difference in power since the box was added (or have you even tried it without the box)?

The specific filter "socks" by ITG or whomever in that thread do inhibit flow. Using the carbon "plenum" keeps the flow on the trumpets unencumbered. Of course, there's less power w/ the filter element but I don't want to damage the engine to due to ingested sand, particles, etc on street/track. The dyno was done without the filters (as pictured previously).

 

[naaman]

Makes sense. I would do the same. It will be interesting to see the numbers once the air box is reinstalled. Any plans to dyno it later?

 

[Ponyboy]

Some short idle and rev vids w/ an iPhone...

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/cF1SFuBKxjk?hl=en&fs=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/QFWlDwsxqOM?hl=en&fs=1" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

[BATMANs]

Are these intake runners designed for more top end power?

They are rather short compared to the ones I've seen on other cars like this stock M5's OEM intake runner.

 

[Jeff@Carbon6]

Some short idle and rev vids w/ an iPhone...

Very nice. Now we need to here them at 8K. lol.

 

[Ponyboy]

Are these intake runners designed for more top end power?

Correct. We don't need a plethora of medusa snakes in the plenum and the power range I'm concerned with is midrange and topend. Plus, the shorter trumpets minimize one cylinder robbing flow from another.

Very nice. Now we need to here them at 8K. lol.

I tried! But the sound just became garbled and unrecognizable. Maybe I'll get a GoPro with an external mic.

 

[sparky]

Plus, the shorter trumpets minimize one cylinder robbing flow from another.

curious - how does this happen ?


also which trumpet length have you chosen? - looks like the shortest

 

[Ponyboy]

Somone politely mentioned that I should probably get this thread moved to the "Builds" portion of the forum and that I should include a build sheet.

here you go...

Engine/Drivetrain Modifications:
ScienceOfSpeed Gen 2 ITB System
AEM Engine Management System (v2, 30-142)
AEM Wideband UEGO Controller & Sensor
Cantrell Concepts Air Induction System
ScienceOfSpeed 3.6L Stroker Engine (369rwhp and 296rwtq)
Comptech Headers (Airborn Ceramic Coated)
ScienceOfSpeed Stage 2 Cams
Comptech Cam Gears
Straight Pipes (Airborn Ceramic Coated)
Taitec GT Lightweight Exhaust
Ron Davis Radiator (Dual 12" Spal Fans)
ScienceOfSpeed Oil Cooler
ARC Baffled Hi Cap Oil Pan (Airborn Ceramic Coated)
Billet Oil Pump Gear
Accusump Oil Accumulator (3qt)
ScienceOfSpeed Engine Mount
ScienceOfSpeed Transmission Mounts
Exedy Twin Plate Clutch
ScienceOfSpeed Coolant Tank
ScienceOfSpeed Oil Breather Tank
ScienceOfSpeed Billet Cam Plugs
NSX-R Short Gears
OS Giken Differential
OS Giken 4.44 Final Drive
Injector Dynamics 725cc Fuel Injectors
Walbro 255lph High Press Fuel Pump
TiDave Crankshaft Damper Pulley Shield

Suspension Modifications:
Volk TE37, 17x8 front (+40mm), 18x10.5 rear (+45mm) - silver
Volk TE37, 17x8.5 front (+40mm), 18x10.5 rear (+45mm) - black
Comptech Pro Suspension
Koni 3012 shocks, Eibach 1000lb front and 600lb rear springs
Comptech Front Non-Compliance Front Clamps
ScienceOfSpeed Non-Compliance Rear Toe Links
ScienceOfSpeed Non-Compliance Rear Beam Bushings
ScienceOfSpeed Steering Rack Bushings
Street/Race Sway Bars
TiDave Adjustable Sway Bar Links
Stoptech BBK (front)
Cobalt SpecVR Brake Pads (front & rear)
PowerSlot Rear Rotors
NSX-R Chassis Bars
Oyukama Carbing Rear Strut Bar
Goodridge Stainless Brake Lines
NA2 ABS Conversion

Wheels/Tires Modifications:
Volk TE37, 17x8.0 front (+40mm), 18x10.5 rear (+45mm)
Volk TE37, 17x8.5 front, 18x10.5 rear - black
Yokohama ADVAN Neova AD07, 235/40-17 front and 285/30-18 rear.
Yokohama ADVAN A005 slicks, 230/17 front and 280/18 rear.

Interior/Exterior Modifications:
Recaro SPG Seats
Taitec Seat Rails
Autovation Sport Pedals
ScienceOfSpeed Center Console
Defi Display (oil & water temp and oil pressure)
Downforce Carbon Fiber Cowl Trim
ScienceOfSpeed NSX Type-S Shift Knob
Viper Anti-theft System
LoJack Recovery System
Harness Bar
Sparco 5pt. Harnesses
NSX-R Steering Wheel
Downforce NSX-R Carbon Fiber Rear Wing
Synergy NSX-R Ducted Hood
Downforce NSX-R Front Bumper Undertray
Downforce NSX-R Front Battery Undertray