ABS Sevice Check Connector

[53heloFE]

How many wires are suppose to be going to that connector? Mine only has one. I remember pulling the DTC codes for the ABS once before, but I don't remember how. I did a brake job and now my ABS pump will do the runnning thing for 120 seconds and set the light off. The light resets each time I turn the car off and back on and it goes through the same pump and light process again. I have read the procedure for bleeding the pump and solenoids and will probably do that. Just don't know what about a brake job would make this ABS thing start. Thanks for your inputs.

 

[jrehner]

Check your manual or the on-line one--tool called the ALB checker or something like that but not used by DIY's. Do a search under ABS pump or again check your manual for doing an ABS/selenoid flush.. SEE recent post "I have Drew's ABS bleeder tool". The Dano info states that if a bleeder tool is not available then the selenoid flush should resolve the issue as the typical problem is a sticking selenoid (but the manual also calls for bleeding from the maintenance nipple during a selenoid flush).

 

[53heloFE]

Thanks jrehner, I have been doing some reading on this ABS thing. Plus I've been trying some of the steps a little bit. I'll probably start a new thread describing everythin=ng later. I was reading my paper manual and was hoping that I could pull a code from the system to give me some guidance. That is why I asked about the service connector, either mine does not store a code, I am trying the wrong connector, or I have a problem...lol

 

[drew]

120 second time out is caused because the pressure switch is not closing...and it thinks there is no pressure in the system, no need to pull codes.

This is the orange connector directly below the master cylinder on the ABS system: make sure it is plugged in properly. Did they change the master cylinder??

You can test to see if there really IS pressure by opening the bleed valve and shooting fluid everywhere.

Drew

 

[53heloFE]

Thanks for the input Drew. Here is what I know so far. When the pump first started doing this I opened the bleed port and oh yeah, it had pressure. I connected my bleed hose to it and all sorts of foamy fluid came out. Now it will not build up any pressure at all. I can leave the bleed port open, run the pump and will not get any fluid to come out of the port. Almost makes me think the pump or accumulator went bad, but I'm going to do the solenoid thing first to see if that helps. Just gotta mow the yard, weed eat, put a new gate in my fence...blah blah blah good thing I have plenty of time off work right now.

 

[jrehner]

Hey Drew--I wish I could open my bleed valve without the expensive tool but I have yet to find a way.

The ALB checker plugs into the line under the glove dept according to my manual and it just puts the system thru its paces. Pg 19-41 of my manual.

 

[jrehner]

Hey 53helo--How did u loosen the bleed fitting--do u have the 167.00 bleeder tool? I have done everything that u have not.

The selenoid part is pretty easy once u get the connectors to separate... I made up the switch as described---two wires stripped at both ends with most of the individual wires removed at one end of each. Need these two wires for the female selenoid connectors. Alligator clip goes on one end and the other end into the female portion of the selenoids that have the female connectors... I bought two medium size alligator clips and two small clips and attached to endx of longer wires that go from a battery and to each selenoid in turn. I cut the lead on the positive side about a foot from small alligator clip and installed a small interrupter/momentary switch. (The manual suggests a remote starter switch which I could not find in my garage--but found the box it originally came in LOL). The small alligator clips are connected to the male ends of the selenoid connectors that use same.

U also have to make up a switch to activate the pump--just 2 short wires with male connector ends which hook into the lower set of female connections where the motor relay/pump relay would be. The opposite ends just connect into the on/off switch... I just turn that on and then quickly activate the momentary switch going to the selenoid currently hooked up... Have u seen the diagram?

Anyway, I got foam or white substance to come into the reservoir when I had the pump switch on and then used the momentary switch to open & close the selenoid rapidly... Each time I removed same using the automotive baster to suck up. I then added more fluid but not a lot and went on to the next selenoid until all 4 were done... In one instance while the pump was on--it started to suck fluid down into the accumulator which is what it is supposed to do and so I know fluid had been drained from same while I was activating each selenoid..

I still had same problem of motor staying on afterwards and I need to bleed the accumulator using the bleed fitting OR I guess I will have to go thru the selenoid process again and again.. By bleeding, and then putting in new fluid, the new gets sucked into the accumulator and then activating the selenoid, the bad stuff is forced up into the reservoir.. Suck that out and go on to the next selenoid after adding some more fluid... U gotta have a lot of brake fluid on hand--get the gallon can of dot 3 or 4. I was pretty conservative and still used a lot...

 

[drew]

I can leave the bleed port open, run the pump and will not get any fluid to come out of the port. Almost makes me think the pump or accumulator went bad, but I'm going to do the solenoid thing first to see if that helps.

No fluid pressure is bad.

The pump and accumulator can be purchased as discrete components, no need to buy a complete unit.

Until you get this figured out: I would jump (short) the pressure switch connector (under the master cylinder) to keep the system from constantly running for no reason. It will also turn off the pesky ABS light.

Drew

 

[53heloFE]

jrehner-Use a 5/16 open end wrench. It fits the bleed port perfectly. Obviously you have to get it fron the top at just a bit of an angle. I have cycled the solenoids, just not with the pump running yet. I have some jumpers and other things I use to make the solenoids open and to run the pump. I made those things for testing aircraft electrical systems, glad I held on to them.

Drew- One thing that is a bit strange about my problem is the pump only starts to run when the car starts going forward. It does not run with the ignition on, after I start the car, or in reverse. As soon as I drive forward it runs for 120 seconds, turns off, and sets the ABS light. I have the pump fuse out right now just to keep from burning the thing up. I will look into shorting the pressure switch, thanks for the advice.

 

[jrehner]

53Helo--as I indicated in the other thread- "I have Drew's ABS tool" an 8mm open end works... I tried that with an adjustable wrench on it to turn it but that puppy is on tight and I am afraid of breaking off the nipple even with the slight angle off vertical. I put a 5/16" on it but the 8mm is a tight fit and the 5/16 was a little sloppy. Have you actually loosened your bleed nipple using the open end 5/16? I don't like the way the whole assembly starts to torque sideways when I put pressure on the 8mm upright wrench using an adjustable wrench... Much rather use a box end or a socket....

I am buying a used whole ABS system complete for 400.00 and I am going to have a better look at the bleed screw from the used portion I am buying. I needed the reservoir in the modulator assembly as the plastic lip where the lid goes on is starting to crack and break away and that plastic reservoir cannot be purchased separately. Just the modulator assembly alone costs 2900 bucks retail from NSX..unbelievable...

 

[drew]

One thing that is a bit strange about my problem is the pump only starts to run when the car starts going forward. It does not run with the ignition on, after I start the car, or in reverse. As soon as I drive forward it runs for 120 seconds, turns off, and sets the ABS light.

That behavior is by design (SOP) for the ALB/ABS. The 120 seconds in the default time-out for system priming before it throws an error.

I would bleed the system with the intent to prime the pump.

**

I also have the OEM SST ALB/ABS test computer, let me know if you need it and we can make arrangements.

I'm trying to get NSXCA to buy some SST's so that they can be loaned like my bleeder tool that has been around for the past 6 years and made dozens of trips across the CONUS.

I think it would be good value for the membership.

 

[jrehner]

53helo--I just pulled the motor relay to stop the pump noise and you'll have to pull that anyway to connect the switch that u make up. I think you would have to close the bleed screw first before the pump would suck fluid from the reservoir back down into the accumulator. I think you will find the pump is okay once you hook up the switch that goes to the bottom connectors of where the relay is and the momentary switch to each selenoid... The two switches u make up have to be operated in tandem... Drew is right--the pump only operates when going forward, otherwise you would not need to hook a switch to the bottom connectors of the pump relay area--u could just idle the engine.

 

[53heloFE]

jrehner-thanks for the info, and I hope you're right about the pump being fine. From reading a lot of other posts on the ABS it sounded like some folks pumps were running when they were sitting still.

Drew-thanks for the offer, I will let you know how it goes after I do the pump/solenoid thing. Hopefully that will clear things up.

 

[jrehner]

53helo--I just looked at a post under a search "ABS system" and found that instead of the modulator or selenoids being the problem it could also be the accumulator (that round globe). If the running cycle is more frequent but the system still works that is a sign the accumulator is going bad. But if there is leaking from the top of the reservoir and system does not pulse when breaking hard then a sticking selenoid or bad modulator unit is the culprit. Also found that there are different modulator units for different years. The units for 1997 on cannot be used in earlier cars. The 91-92 has a different unit than the ones from 93 thru 96 but either modulator can be used for any of those years. The easy way to tell is by looking at the plastic reservoir. The 91-92's have a square reservoir while the later part has an extended piece going towards the firewall at the top right as you view from the front... Also, apparently, u cannot swap out just the plastic reservoir even if it was the same because it's a closed unit and no one has apparently tried to rebuild these modulators.

The ABS system I was going to buy came off a 91 while mine is a 93 and was missing the Power unit (pump)--it also had the rear mount of the modulator bracket broken although mine could still be used for that. I don't think I want to put in the older version just to replace the reservoir and since the power unit was missing which is the part with the bleed bolt, I would not be able to play around with that off the car... Oh well

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/ part #'s for different yr modulators

 

[drew]

I've done a lot of research on this. I even bought a complete 97+ ALB/ABS unit in my quest for knowledge. Once I get into a problem I will spend the money and time it takes to become an expert.

There are three distinct components: modulator, accumulator and the pump. Each of them work independantly, so if you can get them to bolt up: they will work with each other just fine. These components can further be broken down into smaller distinct replaceable parts. See attachements

The main component parts will interchange from 1991-1999 without too much issue. DO NOT get hung up on the different part numbers!

The only effective difference from the 1997+ is that they rerouted the brake lines slightly to make way for the larger spare tire (required to accommodate the larger brakes). So those parts will require a bit of monkeying around to fit to a 1991...such as bending a brake line or changing out a bracket, but the basic part and function is the same.

People DO rebuild the modulator in the USA, I was quoted ~$800 with a one year warranty and quick turnaround. (see links)

jrehner: The little tank is quite replaceable, The p/n for the plastic tank is 57191-SG0-802. This part was used on a Accord 90/91, Legend 89/90 and Prelude 89/90/91. See attached image for the 91-92 ABS system (square tank).

Here are some links:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=656863&postcount=4
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showpost.php?p=599021&postcount=6

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58833

Apparently, you can buy the parts from Russia too
http://www.hondaworld.ru/honda_details_car_14580_spare_B__2410_category_4.htm

 

[jrehner]

Drew--thanks for the info--it appears the plastic reservoir part # you provided is for the 93-96 design as shown in your first thumbnail view (without the part #'s shown). Does that reservoir come off by removing the one screw shown and then pulling up? Would a rebuild include that reservoir? Would the part # for the reservoir be used to obtain same at a Nissin dealer etc.

I thought the only thing wrong with my system other than needing the bleeding and exercising of the selenoids was the crack in my reservoir. I finally got the bleeder nipple broken loose (a loud snap when it broke loose) and the fluid came out but not under a lot of pressure probably because I had just worked the selenoids. I did have a little pressure after using the pump switch to try and suck fluid back in but it was very brief....

I put the system back under control with the ignition but now the ABS comes on and stays on before I even move forward. There is a slight flicker but then it stays on... Now I have to read the posts again looking for the issue of the ABS light at startup--I did manage to get some brake fluid into the selenoid connectors when I was refilling the reservoir..

 

[drew]

The tank p/n 57191-SL0-A01 is good for 93-99. Unfortunately, this part was ONLY used on the NSX (dealer cost $57.73, retail: $112.91).

I have not removed the tank, but it appears you remove the screws and pull up, yes it seems the screws are inside the tank. If you are enterprising you can just replace the single tank with two smaller tanks. Or have one fabricated out of billet...you could probably sell a few as a bling item to others.

I have no idea what the ABS rebuilder does for you, but they were rather helpful on the phone.

Nissin (OEM) sells their parts to independent vendors, so it should be "easy" to get parts from a good brake supply house. I doubt the Honda p/n's will help, but it can't hurt (Note: I said Honda, not Acura).

Always clean off all brake fluid from everything! It can do incredible damage just from an overnight stint. It can severely corrode metal, strip paint and melt wires. You should have several cans of brake cleaner spray and apply it everywhere when you are done for the day.

 

[drew]

Here is a screen shot of a 93-99 ABS system as there were some questions about the part numbers.

These part numbers are from the Honda European (EU) electronic parts catalog (EPC).

You will have to special order these parts.

Drew