• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

Air filter choice and fuel pump

Joined
2 May 2013
Messages
864
Location
St Augustine, FL
Running 10lb boost, CTSC, intercooler, 650cc injectors, Walbro, ~380rwhp at 81 degrees, Dynojet.

Car currently has some kind of a foam air filter in the stock box. Should I stick to it? Or go stock paper filter? And why? And if recommendation is to keep it, how do you clean it properly? And does it need to be oiled?

Also, Mase said car is showing symptoms of low fuel pressure above 6500rpm. We will replace fuel filter and monitor pressure through an engine bay gauge on next tune, but he recommends replacing the 7 year old Walbro pump anyway - better safe than sorry, regardless of the actual cause. Thoughts on this?

Thanks in advance.
 
If you're not monitoring fuel pressure, what are the symptoms of low fuel pressure? What's your engine management currently? I went with Deastschwerks DW200 when replacing my OEM pump recently on a similar setup.
 
Regarding the air filter: OEM = safe filtering and quieter; foam (unifilter) or K&N = louder and potentially more flow but sensitive to oiling condition. Kits of cleaner and oil spray are readily available; don't use too much or too little. My current car has a K&N; when I bought one, the foam unifilter seemed like a more sound choice to me.

With a boosted and tuned car, it would seem that changing to/from the OEM paper filter would require a retune.
 
I am a big fan of running ITG filters. I have tried countless name brands and they seem to withstand the abuse of usage very well on turbo setups and NA ones as well. ITG will make any filter for any vehicle as well as custom ones.
 
If you're not monitoring fuel pressure, what are the symptoms of low fuel pressure? What's your engine management currently? I went with Deastschwerks DW200 when replacing my OEM pump recently on a similar setup.

Running lean at the high end from what I gathered and he wasn't able to compensate for it well in the tune. I need to get a good detailed answer on that though. What are the advantges of the Deastschwerks DW200 vs Walbro?

Dunno if I want to mess with the unifilter - read about too much oil fouling something in the intake? How easy is it to get that wrong?
 
Last edited:
I suppose that makes sense: if adjusting the fuel map does not produce the expected changes to AFR, then one would suspect the fuel pressure is low. Adding a sensor array to my car was instrumental in diagnosing its problems and feeling okay about detecting future ones. I highly recommend the Zeitronix ZT-2, which is an AFR-sensor setup with inputs for boost (detect belt slip) and two other sensors; I use fuel pressure and IAT. And I will likely add another ZT-2 to monitor AFR in the other cylinder bank along with oil temp and pressure.

Dave Dozier [MENTION=4799]DDozier[/MENTION] recommended the Deatschwerks fuel pump over the Walbro. I liked what I was able to read about Deatschwerks as a company and about their products. There are a couple of tests out there that show pretty good flow performance and lower current consumption than others. I think it's difficult to draw a solid conclusion from anecdotal evidence, like someone getting a bad Walbro (e.g., ryu) notwithstanding buying from a reputable source (apparently fake Walbros are not uncommon, given their popularity). In the end I spend a number of hours scouring the interwebs to learn what I could and then went with the DW. The Denso pump from a Supra mkIV is a common choice, but is expensive, has high current draw, and the variations are a bit confusing. Aeromotive seemed pretty good and was on my list. I chose DW. At the time I was not using a piggyback and larger injectors, and I think the DW underperformed at 100psi (and I think it has a relief valve around that pressure), but it seems to be fantastic at the 40-55 psi I use now.

My car also has a relay for the fuel pump, thus the factory feed goes to the coil of the relay, which supplies power to the pump over higher-gauge wire. Others have reported voltage loss being an issue with some of the higher-current pumps. Because of this, I also removed the fuel-pump relay and replaced it with a jumper to bypass the fuel-pump resistor. I don't think that matters if you are using a separate relay for the pump, since the coil will be activated regardless of the resistor, but it's one less thing clicking behind my seat.

I hear you about oiled filters. I recently bought a paper filter and may try it out. I will see if/how it impacts AFR, which would be an indicator if it has an effect on power potential. Since I'm tuned with the K&N, I may stick with that. It seems to me that if the oil drips out, you put on too much. I haven't seen that though. With the foam unifilter, at least you can wear gloves and massage it to a certain extent with the aim of uniform distribution and to squeeze out any excess. And the filter area seems larger as the K&N filter element is a window smaller than the overall filter. Let me know if you want to sell your unifilter. :)
 
I'll let you know about the unifilter in a week or two, after the next tune (April 16th or so). If you don't hear from me, PM me.
 
The key to foam filters or the K&N is just enough oil to catch dust particles etc and make sure it is not dripping, even if you go to the extent of placing the freshly oiled filter on paper towels to soak any excess, and any tuner will tell you if you change anything do it with the tuner so he can adjust otherwise you run the risk of something going wrong.
 
BTW I am running AEM v1.

So thoughts on replacing the fuel pump anyway at 7 years/25k miles, as preventative maintenance? I am loath to do a $400+ job for no real benefit.
 
Last edited:
Seems like if you could monitor and log AFR and fuel pressure, there is no reason to do it until you have a reason to. You will be able to see the fuel pressure during your tune, on the engine-bay gauge. Is there a wideband on the car, so that you can at least see the symptoms when it does fail?
 
No wideband for some reason, That is getting rectified early next week though along with an oil pressure sender and I am finally moving forwards with gaugeart to get some more info into the cabin.
 
That seems like a good plan. Adding sensors and logging was the first thing I did when I got the car. Apparently it didn't prevent engine loss, but at least I tried. Just make sure you try to look at logs to notice high-RPM leaning, which seems to be where a failing fuel pump starts to show up. I noticed mine when it started whining at me. To be fair, I had some advance notice and should have jumped on it immediately, although it was very intermittent at first. (And it's not at all clear that it was the cause of engine loss.)
 
Anyone else any thoughts on the need to replace a 7 year old fuel pump? What is the typical Walbro lifespan in miles/years? Or is that too vague a question?
 
Anyone else any thoughts on the need to replace a 7 year old fuel pump? What is the typical Walbro lifespan in miles/years? Or is that too vague a question?
Walbro pumps lack the quality of Oem honda parts. If it ain't broke, don't fix it I say. Shad and countless others say, if the Oem pump fails, replace with Oem supra 2jz-gte denso fuel pump. But I have only dealt with Oem previously. I'd try to replace it with the denso pump if it is a Walbro. But I have also heard great things about aeromotive pumps but I think they run much higher ampeerage.
 
Last edited:
Walbro pumps lack the quality of Oem honda parts. If it ain't broke, don't fix it I say. Shad and countless others say, if the Oem pump fails, replace with Oem supra 2jz-gte denso fuel pump. But I have only dealt with Oem previously. I'd try to replace it with the denso pump if it is a Walbro. But I have also heard great things about aeromotive pumps but I think they run much higher ampeerage.

The Denso is the one that runs a much higher amperage. The Aeromotive doesn't run nearly as much amperage as the Denso, and flows more. Flow isn't too important, all these pumps flow a lot more than this setup needs. I agree that you can't go wrong with the denso for reliability.

A fuel pump is very important, I wouldn't blame you for installing a new one after 7 years. Is your pump hard wired? It could very likely be the pump, but I would want to see voltage at the pump and fuel pressure as well so you know it not anything else.
 
The paper element will protect the engine best. On cars where possible, I recommend you build a large aluminum air box or scavenge box(s) from another car/truck, so you may run a much larger paper filter, or even two of them. You can measure the effectiveness of the filter by installing a sensitive pressure gauge pre-turbo (or pre-throttle body). One that measures about 0-60mm H2O should work.


A K&N is usually an easy second choice if space / fabrication is in short supply. Yes the oil is an issue for turbochargers, they do not want to be hit with little drops of oil splatter while spinning 50,000rpm. The trick here the OEM uses is to provide a convoluted the tubing between the filter and compressor wheel. Oil will generally drip and leak along the sides, getting trapped in the convolutions. You can also move the filter farther away from the compressor wheel.


Fuel pump:
I would be weary of a 7-year old walbro pushing 400bhp as well. Especially if it already seems weak. There are affordable similar pumps provided by aeromotive(stealth) and AEM that you might use instead.
Certainly you need a wideband for best results, that is the one gauge I keep one eye on at all times.
 
Last edited:
Quick update: replaced the fuel filter, added a fuel pressure gauge, and on the dyno they saw a full 15psi drop above 6500rpm. Bummer.
 
I am a big fan of running ITG filters. I have tried countless name brands and they seem to withstand the abuse of usage very well on turbo setups and NA ones as well. ITG will make any filter for any vehicle as well as custom ones.
[MENTION=26235]jones83[/MENTION] - Have you used one in the NSX? They told me they don't have one and had me measure the stock filter. If you have some reference to one you have used, that might help.
 
[MENTION=28830]jwmelvin[/MENTION] I have not yet. I'm planning on using their ITG filter to create something in my NSX for my build. On previous cars I have used their stock filters, and one of their air intakes. I really like how well they work on and off the track. If you give them your measurements for the stock filter then they will make a custom one for you. The filters are high quality and the customer service has always been really good to me and my friends.
 
Yes, I've been in touch with them and they are ready to supply one. Hopefully that will make it an available item going forward. I'm just kind of wondering if I want to spend $100 on a disposable filter.
 
Quick update: replaced the fuel filter, added a fuel pressure gauge, and on the dyno they saw a full 15psi drop above 6500rpm. Bummer.
Rat pack,
Did you ever get your fuel pressure issues resolved?
 
Which fuel pump did you go back in with? My pump if failing big time on my CTSC it's only a year old Walbro.

Another Walbro. Mase had already ordered it before I stopped to think if I should question it. If yours is bad, I would try and get that returned/exchanged. What are the symptoms? Are you monitoring fuel pressure?
 
Back
Top