Any ex S2000 or current S2000 owners?

[James Rhino]

I thought that I would sell my NSX and upgrade to newer NSX, but I may keep the NSX and buy an S2000.

I am not a convertible car person - so I do not care that S2000 is convertible, but based on my 30-minute test drive, it felt like a fun car.

I am debating between 2004-2005 or 2006-2007. I do not know which one...

Are NSX and S2000 quite similar? Would it be redundant to have both? S2000 felt more raw and race car-like. Am I right on this?

 

[Da Hapa]

Are NSX and S2000 quite similar? Would it be redundant to have both? S2000 felt more raw and race car-like. Am I right on this?

James we had a MY2001 and a MY2002 prior to owning our NSX. They were both fantastic cars and the only reason we sold the first one was for the glass rear window of the 2002.

Are they similar? Sort of. They're both fantastic fun to drive. They're both driver's cars. They both are quite reliable.

The S2K makes a better convertible than the NSX-T, IMO. And the manual tranny in the S2K is still the best I've ever driven. The headlights are also awesome.

But the NSX, IMO and only my opinion, is better in every other way.

I'm sure that a well driven S2K would be quicker than a well driven NSX in most autocross courses due to the relative sizes and wheelbases of the two cars but I know that I am much faster, smoother, and more comfortable over any given road in my NSX than I could ever hope to be in the S2K.

And personally... I far prefer the original 2.0L motor to the "improved" 2.2L. I never felt the car was that down on torque (I know how to shift!) and I loved the 9K rpm redline.

 

[sahtt]

They are different experiences to drive, and if you like the qualities of the NSX you will most likely continue to like those of the s2000. High revving, great motor/gearbox, etc. I strongly prefer the 2000-2003 model over the newer ones. IMO, they feel watered down but I've been told I'm a pretty 'extreme' guy. The glass window helps but isn't ridiculously expensive to change over if you do end up with a 01 for whatever reason.

I don't like the clutch delay nor the fancy electronic 'improvements' in the newer models, but that may just be me.

 

[Nimbus]

I don't like the clutch delay nor the fancy electronic 'improvements' in the newer models, but that may just be me.

Removing the cluth delay valve in 04+ S2000's only take 10 minutes, not a big deal.

 

[dave22]

Removing the cluth delay valve in 04+ S2000's only take 10 minutes, not a big deal.

But removing the DBW is a little more difficult.

If you MUST get an AP2, get one no newer than '05.

 

[SFMarine0311]

I enjoy mine. I'd like to keep it along with the nsx but i doubt i'll be able to pull it off. I know that i'll end up buying another s2000 once i acquire the nsx. Why not have both..:biggrin: The gearbox and high rev engine are superior. Gotta love that 9k redline.

 

[James Rhino]

Thanks for the help.

But removing the DBW is a little more difficult.

If you MUST get an AP2, get one no newer than '05.

Why is this so? Other than the fact that they have an annoying traction control, looks like '06 ones get newer seats and throttle by wire. which supposedly increases the throttle response?? '95+ NSXs have throttle by wire, for example..

Have you driven both 04-05 and 06-07?
Any experience on this comparison?

I am too crazy for wheels on 06-07 :redface:

 

[SilverStone05]

My dad has an 01. Like was said before, the gearbox is second to none. The handling is precise and predictable, it feels like a go cart. Steering is heavily weighted which I really like. 9K redline is fun, but the car is just a dog under 5K.

 

[dave22]

Thanks for the help.



Why is this so? Other than the fact that they have an annoying traction control, looks like '06 ones get newer seats and throttle by wire. which supposedly increases the throttle response?? '95+ NSXs have throttle by wire, for example..

Have you driven both 04-05 and 06-07?
Any experience on this comparison?

I am too crazy for wheels on 06-07 :redface:

Honda Drive By Wire is terrible. I wouldn't mind it so much on an RL or an Odyssey but it has NO business on an NSX or S2000. It ruins the cars in my opinion.

 

[ETLMD]

I know this always offends the AP2 owners, but I really prefer my AP1. I've driven a couple AP2s, and they just don't feel as sporty as AP1s. I could feel that AP2s had more torque at low RPM, and the car became more refined. However, the raw, high RPM powerband defines the S2000. The rawness and powerband is part of the charm. I do like some of the cosmetic updates on the AP2s, but that's about it.

 

[Da Hapa]

I know this always offends the AP2 owners, but I really prefer my AP1. I've driven a couple AP2s, and they just don't feel as sporty as AP1s. I could feel that AP2s had more torque at low RPM, and the car became more refined. However, the raw, high RPM powerband defines the S2000. The rawness and powerband is part of the charm. I do like some of the cosmetic updates on the AP2s, but that's about it.

I couldn't agree more.

 

[The Kid]

Id say get an S2K and keep the NSX. Both very different but somewhat similar driving experiences. Try the search, this topic is been discussed a thousand times.:wink:

 

[SWIFTVISION]

I had a S2000, 2001 white with red interior.

It was a fun car, WAY too small for a 235 pound 6' guy like me though. I ripped many pairs of slacks in that car.

Also ZERO torque....which is really wierd....I mean it was fast but did not feel fast.

 

[nsxsupra]

I have both NSX and S2K. I am quite addicted to the S2K, it is comfortable, easy to drive, one of the best looking car for the money. Sometimes I almost felt like I am driving this car for free, because it is such great bang for the buck. Buy a few big mods for NSX, and it is almost as expensive as S2K.

It is like NSX Jr with drop top, I am not a convertible person either, but once you have it, you will use it and enjoy it. It is fun.

Spend $6~$7k you can have 350~400rwhp turbo S2K that will tear most of the so called sports cars apart. AP1 or AP2 really doesn't matter, both are slow unless equipped with FI. For AP1 I would recommend 03 and avoid the 00, 01 model at all cost unless it is dirt cheap, you will learn your lesson the hard way if you don't believe me.

Also ZERO torque....which is really wierd....I mean it was fast but did not feel fast.

You nailed it.

It pick up speed but you don't feel it. Bone stock NA1 NSX is not exactly a rocket either. In NSX you actually feel some sensation of speed.

It has been a while since I driven a bone stock NSX. Most of the NSX I have driven have at least I/H/E/Weight reduction. Obviously NSX feels faster since I am comparing the modded NSX and bone stock S2K.

I have driven maybe 8~9 S2Ks, all bone stock. Not really a fair comparison because sound can be deceiving, it will probably feel a lot faster just by adding loud exhaust. I would imagine if the S2K had I/H/E and drop 100~200lb or so, the difference is probably just drivers race.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

I also have an AP1.

Personally, I think dollar for dollar a used well maintained AP1 is a fantastic machine and impassable value for a driving enthusiast. I had my eye on one for awhile and couldn't resist. Snag one in the high teens, do your due maintenance- then score some tires & pads, new shocks/alignment, open the exhaust up, and perhaps drop a few pounds off.


Here are my two views...

On the race track, like the NSX - even stock NA they are definitely anything but slow in capable hands. No matter how off the alignment is, or how shot the stock shocks are, or how bad the tires & brakes are over heated, or how drained you feel and hence slow you poke around... at my local track you'll still never leave the mid to high 1:30's unless you are doing something really wrong. Out of the box it is a 'decently quick' ride.

Not fast enough? Try the change drivers mod. One of my buddies Pong joined the 1:30 flat club at PIR in his basically stock Ap1 with little more than a wing on RA1's and some pads which is a very respectable time and makes me think there is a 1:29 out there somewhere. My experience is that sure you might have the blue/yellow out with an Exige or race car in your mirror from time to time, but hey you paid a third as much for your ride so whatever- you can still play with the boys and have a good time out there because it is a great car to learn on. Put them on high boost along with proper setup like my friend Wil's ride on some RE01R's and they can go from 'properly quick' to 'legitimately fast' over night.

Back on the street it's every bit the reliable Honda you want it to be- boasting fuel efficiency and adequate amenities while never leaving you on the side of the road during the morning commute to work. The hardest part is getting it into 6th long enough to not feel guilty about wasting $37 worth of fuel which never seems to work out.

On ownership... yes there are a few minor weak points that show in time on the track.. and yes there is always a better/faster/cooler straight line street car... but all around for a street first/track second driver first mindset you just can't go wrong here. All around, being a production quality vehicle the 2K is pretty hard to beat IMHO. With a little more cash on the table their are a few other steps up in the import world, but not a whole lot and not all exactly comparable. It's in a unique category.

Now that I've sold you.. pick the trim. The AP2 offers more weight, softer suspension, and some non-essential features. The tranny is supposed to be better. They also still tend to be mid to high 20's. But that's not the true cost. The 2K highlight to me is the F20C. The difference is slight but I've driven both and am really an AP1 guy. It is a fantastic raw motor. I know some of the SCCA guys prefer to mate the 2.2 with the newer tranny being bench faster.. but hey I say screw tech rules just listen to it. For those that want to bitch and moan it doesn't have enough torque.. I say hey if you want to pull something the Ford dealership is down the street. :biggrin:

Unlike many of the other import cars which sound like A$$ the Honda 2.0 liter engine sounds just wicked bouncing off the rev limiter. I have guys literally flagging me down asking me why it sounds so good. The power drop top might not be a purist option sure... but on sunny days you can't help but to dread the idea of installing a hard top and stuffing into a stuffy seat and roll cage anyway.

IN closing... I'd say save your money. Keep the NA1 and keys to your new S2000. If you have cash left do some tweaks to your X. The NA2 has some definite value add, but not enough to eclipse a missing set of car keys. :wink:

 

[nsxsupra]

Not fast enough? Try the change drivers mod.

Are you serious? :smile: On the track, yes, on the road maybe not

I do somewhat understand the reality and like to be frank about it as possible. Not every car enthusiast track cars for various reasons. People can appreciate cars in many ways, there is really no right or wrong.

Changing the driver will not help the area where I felt S2K is lacking. In my case it actually might slow it down. lol:biggrin:

For most non-tracking car enthusiasts, there is really only 1 performance category that is frequently used, it is the bench mark for most cars. Just like an athlete with raw athletic ability. Athletic ability alone doesn't guarantee an athlete will perform well in a sport.

I didn't get S2K for pure speed, I wanted a nice looking car packed with lots of fun factor. Even as fun as it is, I can not help but desire improving areas that I felt it is seriously lacking. It is actually not hard for me to overlook that, all I have to do is remind myself that it is just my daily driver. In that case it is a pocket rocket.

 

[Matt_337]

If you plan on modding, get a pre-06 S2000. A friend of mine picked up an 06 and he's kind of upset that he can't get a CTSC put on it. He had an AP1 previously that was modded and is not too thrilled with his 06.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

Changing the driver will not help the area where I felt S2K is lacking. In my case it actually might slow it down. lol:biggrin:

I agree on that. With some cobalt XTR's and RA1's on ABS really fast too! :biggrin:

For most non-tracking car enthusiasts, there is really only 1 performance category that is frequently used, it is the bench mark for most cars. Just like an athlete with raw athletic ability. Athletic ability alone doesn't guarantee an athlete will perform well in a sport.

I didn't get S2K for pure speed, I wanted a nice looking car packed with lots of fun factor. Even as fun as it is, I can not help but desire improving areas that I felt it is seriously lacking. It is actually not hard for me to overlook that, all I have to do is remind myself that it is just my daily driver. In that case it is a pocket rocket.

IMHO in which case 2K/NSX/350Z/RX8/Elise/Gallardo/F-car owners NA/FI whatever need to get used to being the under dog- because there are many, many, many cars with investments under $7000 that will absolutely rape them 1/4 mile or on the highway cheaper, faster, quicker, and in every measurable performance metric you can find.

A stock 2K will hit 0-100 in 14.77s and eventually on to a top drag limited speed in the 150's, so most would agree that it is adequately fast off track being that most owners I see don't wear a helmet.

IMHO it is all a matter of education. Some just learn faster than others to stop using super/sports compact car metrics in car and driver as a performance bench mark when buying cars- as by their nature they are generally the lowest common denominator in straight line performance to start with. The other huge factor is of course driver as you mentioned. The faster the car is they step into, hopefully over time they will realize how little they can extract from it on modern public roads anyway and do something respectable with it- tracking, dragging, off-road, whatever so long as their is a transponder in the car I would find it to be very respectable.

 

[MashimaroNSX]

I'm on the list of S2000 owners :smile: . Awesome car but still not a NSX

 

[nsxsupra]

IMHO in which case 2K/NSX/350Z/RX8/Elise/Gallardo/F-car owners NA/FI whatever need to get used to being the under dog- because there are many, many, many cars with investments under $7000 that will absolutely rape them 1/4 mile or on the highway cheaper, faster, quicker, and in every measurable performance metric you can find.

There is something called balance. You will have to pay me quite a bit of money for me to be seen in a $7000 car that run 8sec.

In that sense, Ariel Atom will run circles around most sports cars that cost many times more on the track.

IMHO it is all a matter of education. Some just learn faster than others to stop using super/sports compact car metrics in car and driver as a performance bench mark when buying cars- as by their nature they are generally the lowest common denominator in straight line performance to start with. The other huge factor is of course driver as you mentioned. The faster the car is they step into, hopefully over time they will realize how little they can extract from it on modern public roads anyway and do something respectable with it- tracking, dragging, off-road, whatever so long as their is a transponder in the car I would find it to be very respectable.

IMHO yes and No.
Most knowledgeable doesn't not always mean most unbiased. Doing great in 1 area doesn't make it a great car. Most NSX or S2K owners didn't get the car for pure straightline however, most will still try to fix its short comings. Respectable or not, it is up to the owners to decide. Preference and standard are not all the same.

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

There is something called balance. You will have to pay me quite a bit of money for me to be seen in a $7000 car that run 8sec.

Aww come on, you don't like the newest drift body kits for the Mustang? You can get them on ebay for $350 and its problem solved!! :biggrin:

 

[Da Hapa]

The 2K highlight to me is the F20C. The difference is slight but I've driven both and am really an AP1 guy. It is a fantastic raw motor.... For those that want to bitch and moan it doesn't have enough torque.. I say hey if you want to pull something the Ford dealership is down the street. :biggrin:

Preach on brother. Preach on.

 

[nsxotic911]

Another 2 cents, I had a 01 -sold it, and have harrased the current owner to give it back :biggrin: John can tell you...

I plan on picking up another one in the next 1 or 2 years.. assuming I don't have to spend that money on replacing a NSX motor instead

 

[DONYMO]

I sold my NSX and bought a blue/blue '02 S2000 w/ 14K miles.
I love it...it's a blast to drive and I've always wanted a convertible.
The stock handling is amazing...better than the stock suspension in my first NSX, but that may be due to age.

The only downside so far is not being able to track it without a rollbar.
Anyone know a source for a rollbar that will not interfere with the top and still look good?

 

[docjohn]

Don,nice to see you on line.So the beast went to a good home? I had an early s2000 took delivery in oct 99,I used to track it but it was way more competitive on the auto-x course.For rollover bars check old threads on s2k international.In nice weather it was a really fun daily driver.