I just saw the Lexus commercial where they flip the car upside down and explained how even the underside was aerodynamicly designed...Is this the same for ours? I think the latest Type R has it, but what of the 91-02?
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Anything special about the underside of the NSX?
- Thread starter Spinner
- Start date
And is there a bolt on kit that smoothes out the underside and directs airflow? I'd want to buy something like that.
SOS has the front underbody tray, as well as a number of rear diffusers.Deuce B said:
I only recall seeing this product from Science of speed; however, I personally don't want to spend money for a CF underbody tray that will get damaged and crack when struck by the road, debris, etc.
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...oducts/NSX/TAITEC/JGTC_front_underbody_panel/
Infact, I am in need of a new underbody tray. Because my car is so low, I have scraped the plastic underbody tray to such a point that it is frayed and damaged on the bottom from sudden dips on the highway.
I want to bolt on a lightweight metallic underbody tray (especially a metal that sparks
) for earodynamic reasons and to replace or suppliment the plastic underbody tray.
Has anyone done this??
I think an NSX owner did this in a race documented in one of the NSX driver Mags; however, it was custom made.
http://www.scienceofspeed.com/produ...oducts/NSX/TAITEC/JGTC_front_underbody_panel/
Infact, I am in need of a new underbody tray. Because my car is so low, I have scraped the plastic underbody tray to such a point that it is frayed and damaged on the bottom from sudden dips on the highway.
I want to bolt on a lightweight metallic underbody tray (especially a metal that sparks
) for earodynamic reasons and to replace or suppliment the plastic underbody tray.Has anyone done this??
I think an NSX owner did this in a race documented in one of the NSX driver Mags; however, it was custom made.
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- 3 June 2003
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underbody
I am in the process of working with some one to make a bolt on under body tray that will either be made of a metal or fiberglass but will be inexpensive for people who's cars sit as low as mine.
Mike SWR
I am in the process of working with some one to make a bolt on under body tray that will either be made of a metal or fiberglass but will be inexpensive for people who's cars sit as low as mine.
Mike SWR
Some thought must have gone into the design of air management as the under surface of the nsx is pretty smooth to my eye.And think about how special that was back in the late 80's when the car was designed.Next time you're at a shop with lifts take a peek under some other performance cars that are 12-14 yrs old I'm sure there are more peaks and valleys.
cool. Thanks for the info Taj...So I guess the underside isn't that aerodynamic compared to the GT version....isn't the Enzo similar?
If you have money to burn buy the Mugen kit : http://kingmotorsports.com/product.asp?detail=583&vehicle=NSX
I would love to have the Type R full under body!
http://www.honda.co.jp/NSX/nsx-r/r-tuned/body1.html
I would love to have the Type R full under body!
http://www.honda.co.jp/NSX/nsx-r/r-tuned/body1.html
Re: underbody
I don't have money to burn and would be very interested in your product Mike SWR.
Keep us posted on your work. Until now, I was under the impression that I will have to have my underside custom made. This may still be a necessary option.
BTW, I would personally prefer a metal underside. I understand the need for weight savings; however, the underside is a harsh area for the car (especially lowered ones). Metal would seem to be a better option.
slipnby said:
I don't have money to burn and would be very interested in your product Mike SWR.
Keep us posted on your work. Until now, I was under the impression that I will have to have my underside custom made. This may still be a necessary option.
BTW, I would personally prefer a metal underside. I understand the need for weight savings; however, the underside is a harsh area for the car (especially lowered ones). Metal would seem to be a better option.
JDM JUNKIE said:
$4800 for a sheet of metal that covers only your fuel tank? wow, they should be arrested for robbery. That's borderline theft.
This thing? I only see a front underbody.
Rubber Chicken said:$4800 for a sheet of metal that covers only your fuel tank? wow, they should be arrested for robbery. That's borderline theft.
This thing? I only see a front underbody.
Exactly. You can get that for a fraction of the price at SoS or Dali.
I want something for the front and the back (underside) of the NSX. As far as ease of access goes, thats why it should be "bolt on" in the first place. Take the damn thing off and work on the engine if needed. However, the bit about the cooling effect is something I didn't consider. So, Hows about just the front then Hmmm? Anyone? Anyone? Do I really have to custom make this??
I thought the pictures and accompanying text were excellent in understanding the thought process regarding how to keep the balalnce of the car. Obviously it seems to me that Honda used some physics and science involved in here.
If one covers just the bottom front, one must also have the open hood to allow all that turbulance coming through the radiator to go out someplace! So just doing one without the other seems counterproductive. Also note the side fins they put to avoid the air from being directed to the fender wells ........... and yes the heat issue fron the engine when covering the rear would be a major concern but then the referenced car is for racing and with people having racing budgets and needs .....
YMMV
If one covers just the bottom front, one must also have the open hood to allow all that turbulance coming through the radiator to go out someplace! So just doing one without the other seems counterproductive. Also note the side fins they put to avoid the air from being directed to the fender wells ........... and yes the heat issue fron the engine when covering the rear would be a major concern but then the referenced car is for racing and with people having racing budgets and needs .....
YMMV
Under body pan
I have been thinking about the underbody covers after reading about the GT and NSX-R. I am working on a panael which will tie the bumper above the airdam with the frame in front of where the suspension mounts and an additional seperate panel which will tie the front panel with the underbody of the driver's compartment, using replaceable rubber or plastic spats to keep air from channelling into the wheel wells. I am thinking aluminum would be a good material even thought titanium would spark when you bottom out! If these can be made to work as flat panels which are bowed into place and cut on a laser, once the pattern is made they could be pretty cheap. An additional panel which covers the gas tank would make sense and probably would never come off once it was installed. I would leave the engine area open because I am lazy and seem to always tinker with the engine, or drop a socket, for which a cover would end up coming off and never go back on. The rear diffuser is cool but I think it would be the last part I would address.
The front end covers I think need to be coupled with a scooped hood which will force air from the radiator up and over the top of the car. The combination of a hood and the front end panels should do a good job cleaning up the air flow under the car, increase down force on the front end, even at the speeds we usually drive, and have the most advantages compared to cost. I think the rear diffuser really become a major contributor to stability and reduced air resistance at speed above 140 MPH. My car seems to have very little wind noise until I get well over 140 MPH and I think the noise increase at higher speeds is related to an advatage which could be found in the aerodynamics. Noise = lost energy.
I am mostly interested in track speeds and getting a bit more traction on the front end with out having to modify the fenders for bigger tires on my lowered NSX. Let's put our heads together and make this happen!
I have been thinking about the underbody covers after reading about the GT and NSX-R. I am working on a panael which will tie the bumper above the airdam with the frame in front of where the suspension mounts and an additional seperate panel which will tie the front panel with the underbody of the driver's compartment, using replaceable rubber or plastic spats to keep air from channelling into the wheel wells. I am thinking aluminum would be a good material even thought titanium would spark when you bottom out! If these can be made to work as flat panels which are bowed into place and cut on a laser, once the pattern is made they could be pretty cheap. An additional panel which covers the gas tank would make sense and probably would never come off once it was installed. I would leave the engine area open because I am lazy and seem to always tinker with the engine, or drop a socket, for which a cover would end up coming off and never go back on. The rear diffuser is cool but I think it would be the last part I would address.
The front end covers I think need to be coupled with a scooped hood which will force air from the radiator up and over the top of the car. The combination of a hood and the front end panels should do a good job cleaning up the air flow under the car, increase down force on the front end, even at the speeds we usually drive, and have the most advantages compared to cost. I think the rear diffuser really become a major contributor to stability and reduced air resistance at speed above 140 MPH. My car seems to have very little wind noise until I get well over 140 MPH and I think the noise increase at higher speeds is related to an advatage which could be found in the aerodynamics. Noise = lost energy.
I am mostly interested in track speeds and getting a bit more traction on the front end with out having to modify the fenders for bigger tires on my lowered NSX. Let's put our heads together and make this happen!
If you look at the NSX-R aero efects referenced above, the largest impact was first from the rear spoiler (0.085), followed by the the under body and reducing the AC condenser opening where each reduce by 0.25 for a total combined 0.50 gain. Interestingly the front open hood helped by only 0.01!
The rear diffuser had only an impact of 0.002 though it gives it a nice finished look.
Perhaps a cheap way of reducing the air flow through the AC comdenser opening is to use the Dali shields or use brake cooling ducts; whether that is a more aerodynamic fix is questionable but it is a worthy fix.
I would speculate that if an NSX is lowered, perhaps these fixes and numbers would be even greater?
The rear diffuser had only an impact of 0.002 though it gives it a nice finished look.
Perhaps a cheap way of reducing the air flow through the AC comdenser opening is to use the Dali shields or use brake cooling ducts; whether that is a more aerodynamic fix is questionable but it is a worthy fix.
I would speculate that if an NSX is lowered, perhaps these fixes and numbers would be even greater?
Air flow and drag
I checked on the Honda NSX-R site and it stated the hood is good for .025 reduction in drag, the inner hood duct is .010 and the under body panels are will reduce drag by .040. A total reduction of drag of .075 on the front end and should net about 75 % of the 80 Lb. additional down force on the front end at 111 MPH they are claiming for the R. I wonder if you can just restrict the size of the opening on the back of the condensor, funnel the air into a brake cooling duct maybe, to acheive the reduction in opening. Or do you need to make the exterior opening smaller to keep the air flow clean?
I agree the wing is the best place to improve air flow, but it is the part of the car with plenty of traction to begin with. I am mostly thinking down force.
Dave
I checked on the Honda NSX-R site and it stated the hood is good for .025 reduction in drag, the inner hood duct is .010 and the under body panels are will reduce drag by .040. A total reduction of drag of .075 on the front end and should net about 75 % of the 80 Lb. additional down force on the front end at 111 MPH they are claiming for the R. I wonder if you can just restrict the size of the opening on the back of the condensor, funnel the air into a brake cooling duct maybe, to acheive the reduction in opening. Or do you need to make the exterior opening smaller to keep the air flow clean?
I agree the wing is the best place to improve air flow, but it is the part of the car with plenty of traction to begin with. I am mostly thinking down force.
Dave
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't only using a front under-tray result in increased low-pressure zone under the front followed by a high-pressure zone in the rear (due to the lack of under-tray) ? Since the under-tray would effectively be increasing the air-flow velocity by reducing turblence underneath that section of car, it would result in decreased pressure under the front. But for the rear section where air-flow velocity is decreased (due to turbulence from engine, suspension, cavities, etc.) it would result in a higher pressure zone under the car, compared to the front.
Given comparitively higher pressure (compared to front under-tray) on the hood, the front under-tray would generate negative lift - which is what we want. But what about the higher pressure under the rear, the lack of under-tray would generate no negative-lift - leaving you with a negative-lift descrepancy between the front and rear. Couldn't this possibly result in lightening the rear at high-speeds, unless you had a huge spoiler to create greater amounts of pressure on top of the rear, needed to offset the front to rear descrepancy created by using only the front under-tray in the first place?
If you look at it, it would almost seem like a reverse venturi, from smaller air volume under front to larger air volume under rear. That's going to slow down airflow, creating even higher pressure under the rear of the car, further exacerbating the front/rear negative-lift imbalance (more in front, less in rear).
Am I smoking crack or not?
Given comparitively higher pressure (compared to front under-tray) on the hood, the front under-tray would generate negative lift - which is what we want. But what about the higher pressure under the rear, the lack of under-tray would generate no negative-lift - leaving you with a negative-lift descrepancy between the front and rear. Couldn't this possibly result in lightening the rear at high-speeds, unless you had a huge spoiler to create greater amounts of pressure on top of the rear, needed to offset the front to rear descrepancy created by using only the front under-tray in the first place?
If you look at it, it would almost seem like a reverse venturi, from smaller air volume under front to larger air volume under rear. That's going to slow down airflow, creating even higher pressure under the rear of the car, further exacerbating the front/rear negative-lift imbalance (more in front, less in rear).
Am I smoking crack or not?
I guess I should have read the NSX-R article to see that they increased the downforce at the rear by utilizing a larger spoiler.
Perhaps continuning their research on the rear under-tray section would have resulted in more gains than just jacking up the rear spoiler size... Cost perhaps?
Either way, my point was that if you slap on only a front under-tray, I could see it resulting in the rear end having more lift than the front at high speeds.
Perhaps continuning their research on the rear under-tray section would have resulted in more gains than just jacking up the rear spoiler size... Cost perhaps?
Either way, my point was that if you slap on only a front under-tray, I could see it resulting in the rear end having more lift than the front at high speeds.
Underbody panels
clayne,
You are right about increased negative lift on the front, which is what I want. My NSX is lowered to such an extent I can't get a tire bigger than 215/40-17 under the fenders with out rubbing. The front end tends to push a bit in the corners so getting a bit more bias toward the front will help with the balance, hopefully getting the tires to bite a little bit more. I don't believe the air movement under the car should make the rear end 'lighter' than with the full stock configuration. I am cleaning up the flow under the car in the front, but it will be no more turbulent in the rear than before I made the modifications. I am delivering the air in a smoother configuration to the rear of the car so my guess is there will be a benefit over the stock configuration for the rear as well.
The slightly larger R rear wing reduces drag by .085, I think the smoother airflow off the rear of the car is what accounts for the negative lift in the rear. Honda site reports about 55 lb. additional down force on the rear with the wing and the little diffuser(.008 drag reduction) under the R.
IMO the NSX is a bit weight biased toward the rear to begin with and a small change would be welcomed, especially for high speed turn in crispness.
Dave
clayne,
You are right about increased negative lift on the front, which is what I want. My NSX is lowered to such an extent I can't get a tire bigger than 215/40-17 under the fenders with out rubbing. The front end tends to push a bit in the corners so getting a bit more bias toward the front will help with the balance, hopefully getting the tires to bite a little bit more. I don't believe the air movement under the car should make the rear end 'lighter' than with the full stock configuration. I am cleaning up the flow under the car in the front, but it will be no more turbulent in the rear than before I made the modifications. I am delivering the air in a smoother configuration to the rear of the car so my guess is there will be a benefit over the stock configuration for the rear as well.
The slightly larger R rear wing reduces drag by .085, I think the smoother airflow off the rear of the car is what accounts for the negative lift in the rear. Honda site reports about 55 lb. additional down force on the rear with the wing and the little diffuser(.008 drag reduction) under the R.
IMO the NSX is a bit weight biased toward the rear to begin with and a small change would be welcomed, especially for high speed turn in crispness.
Dave
Beautiful!
Tan
Tan
Just curious if anyone has continued the work towards a cost friendly underbody panel similar to the Type-R?
I'm still interested in getting something like this.
I'm still interested in getting something like this.
