There have been lots of threads dealing with the OEM vs. aftermarket tires issue. Most posts seems to favor the OEM tires. But a basic question remains. Have OEM tires been improved during the past 12 (possible more) years since they were designed for first generation cars? If they haven't, one would think that the 2002 tire technology available in the aftermarket would negate the original design advantages. Of course if Bridgestone REO10s (or the OEM Yokos) purchased today are more "modern" than those put on the cars in 1991, then my question is moot.
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
Are OEM tires old technology?
- Thread starter Sven
- Start date
I am not aware of any changes to the OEM tires.
However, the advantages of designing a tire for specific corners of a specific car can easily outweigh the changes that have occurred in tire technology in the intervening period.
However, the advantages of designing a tire for specific corners of a specific car can easily outweigh the changes that have occurred in tire technology in the intervening period.
Heck not only are the tires old but the entire stinkin' car is over a decade old! Run, don't walk away from these NSX's. You want a nice modern car like an Altima or perhaps the new Thunderbird. Yeah that's the ticket!
LOL!
Funny, but the question is a valid one which I have pondered myself.
In terms of most design factors, such as tread/block shape, rubber compounds, belt materials, carcass construction, etc. I believe they must be less than optimal by today’s standards in at least some of these areas.
Many of you have heard this from me before, but I suspect that the greatest advantage of the OEM tires is how they “feel”, not how well they grip. Not that “feel” isn’t important. The built-in scrub allows you to run significant toe-out in front and toe-in on the back without the loss of straight-line stability normally caused by such an alignment. Together those opposing forces (physical alignment and scrub) provide a razor sharp feel to the steering which can instill confidence, smoothness and accuracy of input by the driver. So in that sense they may yield better handling results. And there may have been other aspects of the tire design tailored to the NSX, but since the weight of the car has changed over the years and they have altered spring rates, dampers, and bars on various models all without changing the tires, I’d question how important those other aspects are.
Back to your question, I suspect that given the same alignment but “better” tires in terms of raw handling potential, an experienced driver would be able to turn faster lap times on a typical road course. “Better” might include a change of size as well as tire design, and I’m not suggesting that what works best on a different car will necessarily work best on an NSX, but I am confident that there are “better” street tires if what you want is maximum real-world handling potential. The bottom line is that there have been advances in tire design in the past dozen+ years and the current generation of super tires stick better and last longer than they did in the past. But if what you want is the great balance and feel that made the NSX famous, then stay with the OEM because nothing else compares.
So why wouldn’t they have upgraded them each time they changed OEM sizes? Probably because the cost to have the manufacturers do so was not justified given the projected volumes. Surely that would cost far more than just up-sizing the existing design.
As usual, sjs provides a broad (and IMO accurate) perspective.
Have there been advances in tire technology in twelve years? Yes. IF they were to apply the same development budget for corner-specific NSX-specific tires that they did originally, would they be better than the originals? Probably yes. Have they done this? No, for the reasons sjs stated.
Of course, there is no "universal" best tire. Any tire is a compromise among various factors - cost, treadlife, crisp handling, dry traction, wet traction, etc. As sjs noted, the OEM NSX tires were designed to maximize the crisp handling "feel" of the NSX, and they still do that better than non-OEM tires.
Of course, other tires may be better in terms of other attributes, and sjs provides a great example:
This is certainly true of R compound (track) tires.
Have there been advances in tire technology in twelve years? Yes. IF they were to apply the same development budget for corner-specific NSX-specific tires that they did originally, would they be better than the originals? Probably yes. Have they done this? No, for the reasons sjs stated.
Of course, there is no "universal" best tire. Any tire is a compromise among various factors - cost, treadlife, crisp handling, dry traction, wet traction, etc. As sjs noted, the OEM NSX tires were designed to maximize the crisp handling "feel" of the NSX, and they still do that better than non-OEM tires.
Of course, other tires may be better in terms of other attributes, and sjs provides a great example:
This is certainly true of R compound (track) tires.
sjs says:
>>I suspect that the greatest advantage of the OEM tires is how they “feel”
This matches my experience. I tried BFG's Comp TA at one point and the steering feel changed substantially to a softer or less direct feel. I've used OEM Yokos ever since.
>>I suspect that the greatest advantage of the OEM tires is how they “feel”
This matches my experience. I tried BFG's Comp TA at one point and the steering feel changed substantially to a softer or less direct feel. I've used OEM Yokos ever since.
Well they actually HAVE changed the OEM tires over the years. When the tire sizes changed from 15-16 to 16-17 and again to 17-17 new tires were created each time using the "right" technologies to provide the NSX specific handling response. Note how these OEM wheels have been getting wider every time they redo them.
To upgrade your tires, upgrade your wheels to the "latest" OEM sizes and you will definitly feel the difference and be rolling on the best tire tech available for the (stock) car.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
To upgrade your tires, upgrade your wheels to the "latest" OEM sizes and you will definitly feel the difference and be rolling on the best tire tech available for the (stock) car.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
I bought the 94+ OEM wheels for my 91 car, but found that they gave less feedback near the limit (probably less slip angle). I only use the Yoko A022 tires. I switched back to the 91 rims and have been happy ever since. I conclude that the first design was the best, at least for my spirited road driving.
When they changed tire sizes to 17-17 in 2002, they changed tires to the Bridgestone RE040 H0. I am not sure but I don't think these are specific to the NSX or corner-specific or similar to the earlier tires; for example, I don't think they are asymmetrical.
The first time they changed dimensions but I have seen nothing to suggest that they changed the fundamental design in any way. And as nsxtasy noted, it seems that they went to a more generic tire this time.
Ken, did the alignment specs change?
[This message has been edited by sjs (edited 11 December 2002).]
Well unless I have been reading the numbers wrong, the new 2002 17-17 nsx tested at 65.8mph in the slalom, the 1998 16-17 did 62.1 and the 1991 15-16 did 64.8 as tested by Road and Track (not that they are the best, they just did all three cars for similar testing methods)
It sounds like the new car handles at least as well if not better than as the previous models without the apparent "special" tires.
I went from factory 1991 15-16s to 17x7.5 and 18x9.5 with S03s this year and I think the car feels, corners and brakes far better. Throwing it around on the track with S03s felt like the stock sized 15-16 Khumo Victoracers I normaly ran.
Who can tell really, it's all subject to who's sitting behind the wheel (the "spacer" as PD Cunningham calls it) anyway.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
It sounds like the new car handles at least as well if not better than as the previous models without the apparent "special" tires.
I went from factory 1991 15-16s to 17x7.5 and 18x9.5 with S03s this year and I think the car feels, corners and brakes far better. Throwing it around on the track with S03s felt like the stock sized 15-16 Khumo Victoracers I normaly ran.
Who can tell really, it's all subject to who's sitting behind the wheel (the "spacer" as PD Cunningham calls it) anyway.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
DJ,
Actually I saw that Ken had something like 74.3 million posts and I needed to catch up. I heard Lud is giving away a 2004 NSX to the person with the highest ratio of posts/min.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
Actually I saw that Ken had something like 74.3 million posts and I needed to catch up. I heard Lud is giving away a 2004 NSX to the person with the highest ratio of posts/min.
-Ed www.nsxbuilder.com
- Joined
- 30 April 2001
- Messages
- 499
The RE040 on the '02 NSX in the US is not the same as the tires on the JDM NSX's... In Japan, only Yokohama has continued with an NSX-spec tire... (I think Dunlop may have as well - don't remember what the BM video said). The NSX-R on the other hand also has a different tire with a close to R-compound tread.
A lot of people run 17 18s why cant yoka or bridge make a tire just for the NSX I would move up to 17 18s for sure. If we want it they will build it right?
A lot more people run the OEM wheels. Don't get the wrong impression from people who post here, who are not necessarily representative of the entire NSX community. Furthermore, even the people with 17"/18" tires may vary in the size tires they use.
Given that the NSX is one of the few (perhaps only?) cars which has had tires designed specifically for the car (and for individual corners, too), and given the low volume that the car sells in, the chances of an aftermarket tire being custom-designed for this low-volume car to fit aftermarket wheels are exactly 0.000000.
Of course, the good news is, if you really care primarily about performance rather than looks, you can still get the OEM tires for 16"/17" wheels or for 15"/16" wheels.
[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 29 December 2002).]
Great thread, has anyone spoken w/any Acura engineers specifically on this matter.
Shopping for new rears on my stock 94
Anyone know which has best dry grip
245/40/17 Yok OE
245/40/17 Pot OE
or
255/40/17 Brid RE040 (on stock 02+)
TIA
-John
Anyone know which has best dry grip
245/40/17 Yok OE
245/40/17 Pot OE
or
255/40/17 Brid RE040 (on stock 02+)
TIA
-John
john576 said:
I don't know which has the best dry grip. However...
If I already had OEM tires on the front, I would put the same brand and model of tires on the rear.
If I were replacing all four tires, I would do so with a set of four, all the same brand and model.
Thus I would use the RE040 in the rear if I had the OEM 215/40-17 RE040 in front. If I had the OEM 215/45-16 in front, I would get the same brand and model in the rear.
Choosing between the Yoko A022H and the Bridgestone RE010, I've heard a few folks claim that the Yokos are ever so slightly grippier. OTOH the RE010 is less expensive. I think the differences are relatively minor.
HTH
Ken check this out. 255/50ZR17 Z BW 083-577 7.0-9.0 (8.0) 23.2 10.5 9.0 10.7 10 898 558 32 300 AA Ansxtasy said:
Last edited:
Similar threads
