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Battery light, EPS, ABS lights on.

Joined
9 June 2015
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159
97 NSX stock, 23K miles. I havent driven it in a few months. Took it out today. After it fired up I could a fan like clicking sound that I dont I have heard before. Went away after revving the motor. After it warmed up I noticed it missing under acceleration. It has never missed a beat before. Drove it around for a while and then it seemed to get better. I did a few hard accelerations and it seemed fine. As I pulled into the shop I noticed the power steering was gone and the battery, EPS, and ABS lights were on.

The battery is kind of old and stays on a tender. I pulled the battery and it checked at 12.77 volts. I am thinking the alternator went out?? I did look at the voltmeter in the car and it did seem low, but I really never look at it. I probably need to put the battery back in and check to see if the alternater is charging. Before digging into this I wanted to get some thoughts from more experienced people. FWIW, the last time I drove the car I noticed the steering felt a bit funky at very slow speeds. Going to dig into the shop manual tonight.
Thanks!

ernest
 
any codes to pull?
 
Thanks Docjohn for the reply. OBD2 no codes, no pending codes or CEL.

I think the alternator just quit. Voltmeter on battery doesnt change when I run the car. Looks like I may need to pull the alternator and get it checked out. Connections all look good, fuses good, belt good. I may pull it and bring it to a shop to test. Would a bad alternator cause the EPS and ABS lights? I am pretty sure the alternator is internally regulated, so maybe it went bad.

Voltage gauge in the car is on 11 and never moves when revving or turning on a load. Looking like the alternator
 
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Thanks Docjohn for the reply. OBD2 no codes, no pending codes or CEL.

I think the alternator just quit. Voltmeter on battery doesnt change when I run the car. Looks like I may need to pull the alternator and get it checked out. Connections all look good, fuses good, belt good. I may pull it and bring it to a shop to test. Would a bad alternator cause the EPS and ABS lights? I am pretty sure the alternator is internally regulated, so maybe it went bad.

Voltage gauge in the car is on 11 and never moves when revving or turning on a load. Looking like the alternator

I am thinking that docjohn might have been referring to the EPS and ABS error codes which do not show up on the OBDII. You need to trigger the error code display by using the service check connector and count the flashes of the EPS and ABS lights to determine the error code. However, if you pulled the battery there is no point in checking for error codes because you erased those when you disconnected the battery.

A voltage reading of 11 volts would suggest a dead alternator. However, I would double check with an actual voltmeter to confirm that the voltage is that low and that there is an alternator / regulator problem - takes less than 60 sec to do that. The jump terminal in the engine compartment fuse box is a convenient place to take a measurement. With the engine running it should 14 volts or more. If it is less than that check the #18 fuse and if that is OK its likely the alternator or a wiring problem. I assume that you meant charging indicator light when you said battery light?

Low voltage will definitely cause problems for the EPS. Also, check your battery post connections to make sure that they are not corroded and that the clamps don't twist freely on the posts. If you have been having alternator problems you might want to get your battery load tested. On an older battery extended operation with a non functioning alternator can push it over the edge.
 
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I was just going to say all that but the Federalist Cab prevented rational thought.......plus I got nuthin after asking..."did you pull codes":redface:
 
Thank you Old Guy for the reply. The battery is pretty old, so I am going to replace it even though it seems to be fine. Yes, I am referring to the charge light on the gauge cluster. I also have the EPS and ABS lights illuminated. Before I removed the alternator I checked voltage at the battery with the car running and it didnt seem to be charging.

Do you think the low voltage could have caused the EPS and ABS lights?

My plan is to replace the rectifier and voltage regulator in the alternator along with a new battery. Then see if the charge light goes out. I dont have a Sun VAt tester to figure out exactly what is wrong with the charging system. But, everything is pointing to the alternator. Maybe the tender kept the battery charged but once it went under load the alternator really had to charge and decided to quit. Or it is punishing me for letting it sit for 4-5 months! I expect this from my other cars not the Acura.

Sorry DocJohn, I didnt understand what codes you were referring too. I am better now that I found my shop manual....I forgot that it was under my nightstand to block the Roomba! Its been a while since I have needed it. Thanks guys.
 
haha he said roomba.....
 
lol ,my county is still in red phase till June 5...:frown:
 
Man, I feel for you guys up there in PA. I am an Orthodontist and I have friends up there that are ready to tar and feather the governor. I lived in Pittsburgh for a year in the early 90's what a fun town.
 
Do you think the low voltage could have caused the EPS and ABS lights?

My plan is to replace the rectifier and voltage regulator in the alternator along with a new battery. Then see if the charge light goes out. I dont have a Sun VAt tester to figure out exactly what is wrong with the charging system. But, everything is pointing to the alternator. Maybe the tender kept the battery charged but once it went under load the alternator really had to charge and decided to quit. Or it is punishing me for letting it sit for 4-5 months! I expect this from my other cars not the Acura.
I went out to my car and checked and the charge light symbol is a battery, so I guess its fair game to call it a battery light:smile:.

Low voltage will definitely cause problems for the EPS. I am not sure about the ABS. However, see my comment towards the end on common alternator / ABS / EPS problems.

My initial gut reaction was just replace the alternator; but, on checking I see rebuilds seem to be in short supply and complete new alternators are mind buggeringly expensive, which makes repair a more attractive option.

First thing, make sure fuse #2 and #18 are OK. Normally I would then look at the brushes on the alternator as the most likely failure item; but, at 23000 miles that would seem like premature failure. The rectifier assembly and regulator are available as parts; but, those two items are going to set you back close to $500 so I would not be inclined to test by replacement. Rectifiers tend to be dumb ass reliable (I have a 1971 Volvo with the original rectifier assembly in the alternator). Honda provides a test procedure for the rectifier which is fairly easy to do once apart so test before deciding to replace. Also, unless there is a broken main wire in the rectifier assembly a single diode failure does not completely disable the alternator. There is no bench test for the regulator assembly. There is a performance type test for the regulator; but, the alternator has to be doing something in order to carry out that test which does not appear to be an option for you. With the engine running you can do the manual full field test (as described in the SM) and if the alternator starts producing voltage (lots with application of full field) then it likely is a problem with the regulator circuit. It seems that if you rule everything else out the regulator is the default failure.

However, if the full field test points a finger at the regulator, before replacing the regulator carefully check all the wiring between the regulator assembly and the rest of the car. There are problems with the charge indicator circuit that can cause problems for both the EPS and the ABS system (Hmmm - sound familiar?). The test procedure for the charge indicator circuit in the service manual mentions the related problems with the EPS and ABS so it would be good to check that out first.

Good luck with it. A couple of years back I was PM ing back and forth with another Prime member who had a weird problem where the voltage would randomly take a big nose dive every so often while driving. It was so bad that it would cause engine problems. He had to buy and connect a data logger to record the voltages at various points in the car while driving. Took for ever; but, eventually it was tracked down to the alternator wiring banging against something causing insulation damage eventually leading to temporary shorts. The reason for the banging turned out to be a failed front engine mount. Front engine mount failure = electrical problems, didn't see that one coming!
 
Thank you again for the detailed reply. Fuses 2 and 18 are good. Even though the battery is old (2012) it load tested fine with one of those hand held load testers. After loading it a few times it still had 12.6 volts. But, given the age i am going to replace it any way.

As for the alternator. The voltage regulator was $138 and the rectifier was $32. No, these arent oem. I read the tests for the rectifier and it seemed over my head. Maybe I will look into it again tomorrow.

I am also going to do some reading on the charge light as you suggested. Thank you again for taking the time to help, I really appreciate it. Fingers crossed it is something simple.
 
When you read the flow charts for both the ABS and the EPS lights being on, they both ask if the charging system light is on.....if yes, then check charging system.

When you look at the wiring diagram for the voltage regulator you can see it is integrated with the ABS/EPS control unit on the same wire as the charging light.

Also, the voltage regulator is going to the spark plug voltage detection unit (whatever that is) and may have been causing my missfires I was getting right before the dash lit up with lights.

Praying that fixing the voltage regulator will cure my issues. The NSX Service Manual is by far the best manual I have ever used for a car.
 

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How difficult is it to get the alternator rebuilt? I've only seen a handful of alternators here. Would be convenient to have a working one and swap it out to see if that causes the problem.

I wonder if there are any ways of testing it after the battery is replaced. Like, using the headlights or the power windows.
 
If you suspect alternator issue...first double check the main/thick wire that charges the battery and the signal connector for alternator controls. I've had issues with both. Thick wire corroded so essentially disconnected - lost ability to charge the battery (I think this resulted in battery light coming on so issue was obvious). Once I forgot to plug the alternator control connector in after disconnecting it for access reasons for unrelated work - no resulting lights to indicate issue (you'll silently drain battery). Obviously partial issues (intermittent connections) with either would be less-obvious / more difficult to troubleshoot.
 
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latzke, I checked the wires and they seem to be in very good condition. I did read a thread about someone having that issue, maybe it was you?

As for rebuilding the alternator, the service manual goes through it. Just replacing the voltage regulator is pretty easy. I am going to check around to see if I can find a place that will test the alternator. I know there is an alternator/starter shop about an hour from me, but maybe one of the stores here has a tester.
 
Glad you are working...yes getting very contentious in our neck of the woods...
 
The charging system did change slightly during the production years. I was referencing a .pdf of the 1991 manual on my laptop and the 1991 does not have the #5 fuse which appears to have shown up in the OBDII cars. So, check to make sure the #5 fuse is also OK.

The charging light will illuminate whenever there is a voltage difference across the bulb. One side of the bulb is connected to the battery via the ignition switch and the other side is connected to the L terminal of the voltage regulator (which is the alternators internal voltage). If the alternator fails to generate voltage (for whatever reason) the L terminal will be 0 volts or really low and the charge light will light up because of the voltage difference. However, if there is a short to ground on the wht/blu wire between the charge light and the L terminal of the regulator this will also cause the charge light to light up. A lot of alternator designs use the small current that flows through the charge light to boot strap the alternator on start up. If the alternator does not get this tiny boot strap current it may not generate any voltage. If you have a ground on the wht/blu wire the alternator may not be getting the boot strap and hence generate no voltage even though the regulator might be OK. The caveat to this is that some alternators use a separate supply for the boot strap current. This might be the function of the yel wire on the regulator IG terminal, in which case a short on the blu/wht wire should not disable the alternator. Unfortunately the service manual does not provide any functional details for the regulator so there is no way to be sure about what is happening.

A simple test would be to unplug the regulator plug on the alternator and then switch the ignition switch to run. If everything is OK with the wiring the charge indicator light will not light up and you can go ahead with your test regulator replacement. If the charge indicator lights up there is a short to ground someplace on the blu/wht wire between the charge light and the alternator plug. Hopefully its a regulator problem since a short to ground in the wiring harness is close to pure agony to track down.

If it is a short to ground, since this problem occurred after several months of non use I will offer the following observation. This spring I took my car out of storage and on starting up I had an indication that the rear hatch was open preventing the security system from arming. I checked the hatch switch and it was functioning correctly suggesting a short to ground in the wiring. The switch input went to a number of functions in the car which I unplugged and tested and could find no ground. When I reconnected everything the ground problem had gone away. The only other thing I did was to clean and check the battery post connections. I did replace the battery about two weeks later when it did one of those working fine one minute and absolutely dead 5 minutes later routines that maintenance free batteries seem to exhibit. Two other users on Prime reported similar hatch switch phantom grounds that seem to be related to battery issues materializing after coming out of storage. We never explicitly identified the problem; but, it went away. Since your problem emerged after a period of non use it might be similar. If you have what appears to be a ground on the blu/wht wire isolate everything connected to the wire, slaughter a chicken and spread the blood in a circle around the NSX under a full moon and then check to see if the ground has gone away. Skip the chicken bit; but, I can offer no engineering based reason for how I fixed my phantom ground on my car. Like I said, hopefully its a regulator problem and not a mystery ground on the blu/wht wire.
 
That pretty much follows the service manual flow chart. My cars punish me if I don't drive them. I took the alternator to the auto parts store today. They put it on their tester and it failed. He said it failed all the tests. Regulator, diodes and rectifier. Rebuilt one from them is $200. I haven't had good luck with big box store alternators. I am going to try to replace the voltage regulator and diodes and see how that goes. Worse case, there is a good rebuilder about an hour from me. I have another alternator and starter from some other cars that I might get rebuilt as well for spares.

The brushes measured 10.3mm and according to the manual 10.5mm is new. So, it doesnt have any wear, just quit working. A new alternator from Acura is $1200, so I have some room to mess up!
 
UPDATE: All fixed. I removed the alternator and replaced the voltage regulator and the diode pack. Voltage reg was $147 from amazon and the diode pack was $40. Very easy to replace and it was so nice to start the car and have all the lights go off. So, low voltage can make the car miss, shut down the EPS and the throw an ABS light. Here are the links to the parts:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000C7YN3G/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

https://alternatorbrush.com/collections/1997-acura-nsx-3-2l-alternator-kit-starter-brushes
 

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I revive this thread only to say a big THANKS to you EMAC !

I experienced the exact same problem recently, Battery light came on, then the ABS+EPS light and the battery gauge was pretty low...

IMG_20210821_172318.jpg

I immediately checked the alternator that wasn't charging anymore... I unmounted it but I couldn't see if the rectifier or the regulator were functional or not... When I found out this thread, I was totally relieved, so I ordered a rectifier and regulator (+brushes) and voilà !! running perfectly smooth again !
In the meantime I brought the old rectifier to a specialist, he confirmed almost 4 of the 8 diodes were dead... For the regulator, I don't know.

cheers !
 
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Yes indeed. 10 volts on the dash voltmeter with the engine running at 1100 RPM pretty much confirms that the charging circuit was dead.
 
Yes, definitely :)
Actually, to be fair, when the battery/charge light only appeared, the volt gauge was indicating 12/13V, when it's usually more in the 14V range.
It's only after I got back home and started up the car a couple more times to check that it dropped to 10V and the EPS / ABS lights appeared.


Anyway, I'd love to discuss the reason WHY my alternator died at this exact moment, I'd be very glad to have your feedbacks :
The day before my alternator died, I found my battery full empty (totally my fault, I left the trunk open with the light on for a couple days)
So, I left the battery charging (without removing it from the car) all night long, and the day after it looked OK so I drove the car normally for 2 hours before the battery/charge light appear on the dashboard...
Can this only be a coincidence ??

FYI, the battery i'm using is a LifePO4 battery from Deidweight industries specifically designed for the nsx. But, it's stronger than an usual one, and since it was totally empty, maybe my charger (noco genius 5) sent too much power and burnt my rectifier ?
Can this even be possible ?



IMG_20210820_223534blur.jpg
 
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