buying a damaged salvage title NSX needing frame pulled...go or no go?

[radwebster]

hey guys, i am very new to the whole NSX world. i've always respected them, but i never thought i could ever aford one. anyway, i found a '94 with 78,000 miles, but its been hit in the front. needs a hood, both front fenders, windshield, bumber, headlights, and all the various little crap up front, but the suspension appears ok, and the car still runs and can still drive very slowly.
the frame looks like it has been shifted over up front though, i was just wondering if anyone here has had experience with a NSX (or any unibody) that needed to have the frame straightened.
the rest of the car is good, it runs well, is an automatic, and the interior is in great shape. the guy is asking $6,500 for it. i would appreciate any input on this matter. (and for the record, i am not looking to resell it or anything, so i don't care about the salvage title) thanks.

 

[The Kid]

automatic?? If thats what your into I think the car is a good deal. Most body-shops have a frame machine and if going to be just a sunday driver or an everyday car do it! Fixed; you can probably be into the car for under $15k. Check the market and youll see this is still $5k-$10k beyond rough market value. :smile:

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

Write down all the parts you need, then find out prices.
Set asside a budget for unforseen cost, add the straigtening cost, repaint, aso.

Not rocketsience, but a damage can turn out very expensive, especially on a NSX.

 

[radwebster]

well, i would love a manual, but i've only seen one NSX here in my lifetime, so they are not too common. so i'll take what i can get, but thanks for the input...one thing though...do you think the frame can be straightened without a problem? i'd hate to buy it then not be able to fix it 100% (or as close as possible)

 

[DutchBlackNsx]

For more info on the parts and pricing (i don't know if these prices changed), have a look here.

You have to keep in mind that the NSX has a very strong chassis, so if it needs straigtning, it might be a little hint for a second look. Also keep in mind because the NSX has such a strong chassis, not all bodyshops have the right equipment to perform the required task.


Mich

 

[surferX]

I've read in this forum before that the NSX's aluminum frame is more difficult than a steel frame to straighten (most likely due to both materials' plastic deformation characteristics). I would not anticipate ever getting the frame back to 100% or spending a lot of money to do so. This would not be much of a concern if you are planning on cruising or normal driving around town, but I wouldn't recommend taking the car to the track. Good luck! If you do it, keep us posted on how it turns out.

 

[Eric C.]

If the frame is not 100% when fixed I'd run now...I disagree strongly that a track car should be perfect but street, less is ok...I drive my nsx at 120mph and way plus every week and my life is worth a perfect frame.
The big cons to this car seem big..frame,auto box=low hp, etc etc...
Most all car addicts have made these $$ errors, the lucky are still married!! :biggrin:
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Dave Hardy]

I've brought 2 frame damaged cars back from the dead. It will never be 100%, but for most 95% is enough and that should be doable. Best bet is to find one that's been rear ended or rolled and transfer parts. I've seen an NSX rollover go on ebay for a similar price as yours. If you do it right you could buy a differently damaged one, use the parts you need, and part out the rest to pay for the repairs.

Keep in mind that early/rough ones are starting to go for $20-$25K, so don't tie up too much money in a salvaged one. If you shop right I think you will be able to bring it back for $12-$15K total, but if it costs much more than that then you are getting to the point where it isn't worth it. Also, the more work you can do yourself, the more sense it makes.

 

[diablo2469]

my nsx was tapped in the rear and had left rear frame rail damage. it was going to cost $22,000 to repair it all by a competant shop that new how to work on aluminum and use the proper jigs and such. needless to say, they totaled my nsx because of it. it wont be cheap to repair your damage, so weight that into your price.

 

[MvM]

I had my rear beams bent in a crash on the track.
The car will be repaired (it is in the shop now) but it is definitely NOT cheap.
Also, the rear part of the beams of the NSX-frame are U-shaped, because they in fact only support the trunk of the car.
The front of the car supports the front-suspension. The beams there are much stronger and also O-shaped. I can be done but you need a good shop to do it.

 

[NSXWIND]

I'd RUN away from that car.
If you can't afford a clean one now, you should wait.
Bill could add up higher and faster than you think when trying to repair a damaged NSX.
Picture yourself in this situation; spend couple grand to fix the car only to find out more parts need to be repair. Car sits in garage incomplete with empty wallet. :frown:

 

[caseycarson]

I have had mine about 3 weeks. I can vouch for only one thing. That is...THE PRICE OF OEM PARTS FOR THESE CARS IS OUTRAGEOUS!!!!!!!

 

[ANYTIME]

Call your insurance agent and see if they will even insure a salvage titled car.
There is a reason this one was not fixed. Why would someone sell a car that was repairable and still be under market price once fixed? Value on salvaged cars are roughly 50% of a comparable clean titled one. It sounds like you are going to settle for an automatic and a salvage title car, when you could possibly on spend a few thousand more for a clean title/standard transmission one (until you buy it, repair it, the total price is up in the air) I say run, and fast.

hey guys, i am very new to the whole NSX world. i've always respected them, but i never thought i could ever aford one. anyway, i found a '94 with 78,000 miles, but its been hit in the front. needs a hood, both front fenders, windshield, bumber, headlights, and all the various little crap up front, but the suspension appears ok, and the car still runs and can still drive very slowly.
the frame looks like it has been shifted over up front though, i was just wondering if anyone here has had experience with a NSX (or any unibody) that needed to have the frame straightened.
the rest of the car is good, it runs well, is an automatic, and the interior is in great shape. the guy is asking $6,500 for it. i would appreciate any input on this matter. (and for the record, i am not looking to resell it or anything, so i don't care about the salvage title) thanks.

 

[KANE]

I have owned and repaired several nsx's which were purchased with damage. Used parts can be purchased from erz auto 718 774 7846 in new york. Finding a bodyshop that can handle the repair should be easy just make sure they are comfortable working on aluminum cars. Don't listen to the "computer programmer types"/nsx know it alls with no actual frame repair experience. The car will need to be clamped into a frame rack and pulled straight. Several different measuring systems can be utilized to determine if the repair is done correctly. Once the repair is completed take the car to an alignment shop. The car should take a perfect alignment and you should be able to get a printout of the alignment specs so you know it is within factory specs.

 

[titaniumdave]

Kane,
If you can find a new front clip to weld on the car I think a 100% repair is possble with enough time and money. I found 2 problems with my salvage car that made me decide not try to repair it.

In the front end there is no place to shim or make gross adjustments to the suspension pivot points. With a straight, dropped car there is no extra adjustment to get the camber to factory spec. The front alignment is dependent on having the pivot points in the correct location in all three dimensions with in about +-5 mm. There is so little adjustment.

The second thing is the chassis has no good places to clamp it if you need to really move it a large amount. Because the car is not the classic uni-body construction, the seam one usually uses to clamp on is not present along the bottom of the car. The frame alignment system I had access to would not work with out welding on some additional supports for clamp points.

If the damage to the car is an issue of a crumple zone needing to be pulled out, go for it. If the front end has been pushed very far to one side, I would think pretty hard about doing the repair. It will be hard to end up with a car that is better than 90-95% when you are done. The reason I like my NSX is to drive fast, track the car and feel confident at speed. On the front straight at Spokane Raceway I see speeds approaching 150 MPH, I would never be comfortable with less than 100%. This car is an auto, so the track end may not be an issue but be aware of the issues and limits.

One final thought, parts are stupid expensive. We had $65,000 in parts to repair my car before labor was included. Those were new prices for the insurance estimate so there are cheaper sources, but still, the little parts can nickle and dime you to death!

Good luck and have fun no matter what you end up doing, lots of these cars come through as salvage so make sure you get the right one. You will have lots of money and time tied up in the project so it better be what you want when you are done!

 

[KANE]

FYI the vertical pinch welded seam below the rockers is the traditional spot to clamp to a frame rack. on nsx's the pinch weld is horizontal and behind the rocker cover. You can definitely clamp to a frame rack with out welding, sounds like you are regurgitating info from someone else. In the front end you just bolt hooks to the ends of the frame rails to have a point to pull from. And lastly you would not need to"shim????" anything in the front end to get a good alignment. The car will align to factory specs if straightened right.

 

[titaniumdave]

FYI the vertical pinch welded seam below the rockers is the traditional spot to clamp to a frame rack. on nsx's the pinch weld is horizontal and behind the rocker cover. You can definitely clamp to a frame rack with out welding, sounds like you are regurgitating info from someone else. In the front end you just bolt hooks to the ends of the frame rails to have a point to pull from. And lastly you would not need to"shim????" anything in the front end to get a good alignment. The car will align to factory specs if straightened right.

My point with the frame was the rack I had access did not lend itself to this style of frame, not that it could not be done with new clamps. Shim comment was about how one would make an american style car perfect, very easy to do. With the NSX the window of adjustment is very small, and the number of bolt holes for the front compliance linkage and sub frame are a bit daunting. The end of the frame rail location to make the front end 'look' right was not my concern, it was the complexity of the geometry for the bolt up- of the parts in all three planes for the front compliance linkage and sub frame. There is no wiggle room in the way these parts mount and I was not comfortable taking the plunge knowing I would not be happy with less than 100% in the finished product.

Good luck if you choose to take on the project!

 

[nsxtasy]

do you think the frame can be straightened without a problem? i'd hate to buy it then not be able to fix it 100% (or as close as possible)

Then don't buy it.

I don't mean to wisecrack or diss you. However, I think the idea of buying a crashed car without already possessing the expertise to know how much labor and parts will cost to restore it is just plain foolish, unless you're willing to admit that up front. If you haven't restored any salvage vehicles before, you're risking your purchase price plus whatever additional time and money you put into it. OTOH, if you think this might be a fun project that you would enjoy - regardless of whether you lose a good chunk of money on it and regardless of whether or not it turns out to be fixable on any kind of cost-effective basis - then go for it, and have fun!

 

[Tony Montoya]

I thought if you bent the frame rails the only repair was to cut it off and weld in a new piece. That's what the repair shop did here. The car is straight but the repair is obvious when looked at from below as the undercoating doesn't look like factory.
That's what happens when you hit a parked FedEx truck.

 

[radwebster]

first of all, thanks for all the responses.

secondly, let me clarify: i am not looking to get it perfect, but i want it to be safe and look good. i'm not going to take it to the track ever, and i'd prefer a manual, but hey, i've never even see an NSX for sale around here.
what i'm looking for is a car that i can fix, over time, to a point where no damage is visibly evident, and one that drives correctly (no pulls or anything which could compromise my safety within normal driving).
i understand the idea that i should buy an older one for more money, but i am only an 18 year old kid with limited funds at the moment. and please, no one respond with "oh, you shouldn't be looking at such an expensive car then, go buy a civic", i've had '79, '84 and '98 Corvettes already (all with my own money, i am not rich or anything),and i am always looking for exotic vehicles. i never before dreamed that i could own something as rare and expensive as an NSX, so if it anyway possible to get this car fixed well, within around $15,000 total, then i will purchase it. thanks for any more replies.

oh and by the way-- this forum is much different than most others i've been on, including the corvetteforum. everyone here seems very mature, with no wiseass responses or similar actions that detract from the forum. i've already obtained much info from here, thanks again.

 

[satan_srv]

oh and by the way-- this forum is much different than most others i've been on, including the corvetteforum. everyone here seems very mature, with no wiseass responses or similar actions that detract from the forum. i've already obtained much info from here, thanks again.

This is because to own an NSX, in general you have to be much more of an enthusiast. With the high price tag in th midst of much cheaper competitors that cut corners, you have to be an informed and truly invloved owner. People don't pick them up becuase everyone else has them. They just want them. And also you will see less immature types trolling these boards as they stick to the common cars where they can BS it. Welcome.

 

[LJSB]

I thought if you bent the frame rails the only repair was to cut it off and weld in a new piece. That's what the repair shop did here. The car is straight but the repair is obvious when looked at from below as the undercoating doesn't look like factory.
That's what happens when you hit a parked FedEx truck.

For correct undercoating appearance you need to use Wurth brand products.
They have a spray-able sealer/undercoat in the same color as the OEM on the NSX. It comes in cartridges and needs a special and expensive spray gun that you can dial in the exact texture and pattern.
Wurth products are expensive but are the best and they are OEM for most German cars.

The frame rails on a NSX have little tolerance for bending before they crack.
Heat is a no no and if they are kinked they should be replaced.
You have to be really observant and look for stress cracks.
3D measuring/monitoring of body dimensions/control points before and during adjustments are a must for a correct repair.
There is wrong and there is right on this, no in between.