Bye Bye 930!

[ISONSX]

INITIAL DISCLAIMER: I would not recommend violating the speed limits. I know no one else out here ever does this.

Being a former Porsche owner, I went out to Hallett Motor Racing Speedway last weekend to run with the Porsche Club of America at an event called Mayfast. Unfortunately, I didn't go out there until Sunday and the requirement was that I had to attend the track orientation session on Saturday to run. It was raining in Saturday and I though they cancelled that day's events. I have never tracked my NSX and wanted to mildly put it through its paces.

Anyway, I followed a good friend of mine to this track about an hour away from home. He has a pristine 22,000 mile '79 930 with a few aftermarket mods on it. My X is a bone stock 92 5 speed. I am not an observer in life but a participant so watching as opposed to running on the track got old quick. We both decided to go back home after an hour or so. I was following him about a quarter mile behind as we traveled about 80 mph down an open stretch of highway. He decided to hit the gas and air out the 930. What was I to do other than follow? I popped it down to 4th (should have hit 3rd gear instead to get into the VTEC range in hindsight) and followed. He was in the right lane and I the left. I continued to pull on the 930, gaining the 1/4 mile that I was traveling behind him and caught him as I was moving through about 140. I passed him and then looked down to see about 155 on the speedo and rising and the beautiful Porche 930 now starting to fade behind in my rear view mirror. I decided that the adrenaline rush could quickly become overtaken by the cold steel of handcuffs if a friendly officer clocked me at those speeds so I shut it down.

This is the first time I have stretched the legs on my NSX and actually the first time I have driven it over about 90-100 mph. It is a garage queen that I only drive on nice sunny days but it was soooo solid at these speeds. I was tempted to get to the 168 or so that the car will do but 155-160 was close enought for me.

NSX - There is no substutite!

 

[loNfastNSX]

SWEEEEEET

 

[NSX/MR2]

Not a fair race! A NSX should match up with a NA 996, not a 930, and still should be abke to beat it with equal drivers. Lose some weight, some very minor mods, and the 996 NA will be history.

 

[Lazarus]

Not a fair race! A NSX should match up with a NA 996, not a 930, and still should be abke to beat it with equal drivers. Lose some weight, some very minor mods, and the 996 NA will be history.

Fair or not, I think his point is that he's impressed by the ease with which his car dispatched the 930 Turbo, which was for many of us the paragon of automotive performance in our youth. But I agree, it can be awkward comparing cars from different eras.

Come to think of it, the direct P-car comparable for a '92 NSX would more appropriately be a 964.

 

[gheba_nsx]

Isn't the car 300+ hp stock? The weight should not be that different from the NSX. In a straight line it is a very fast car, so you are right about being proud of the result!

EDIT: just found out that in the US the 930T is different and had 265 hp. Anyway, it reamins a good result!

 

[NsSeX]

I was wondering how fast the front engine porsches are? A Turboed porshe tried/wanted to race but i ignored instead because of traffic.

 

[Steve]

I assume you are speaking of a 944 turbo. This car is a slug, you will kill it. They made a 944s that was faster but not even close. The 928 has a v8 and is faster yet, but again no contest unless modified. Don't mess with a late model 911 turbo or anything that says RUF on it!!

 

[NeSX]

I am as big of a fan of the NSX as anyone... but Steve you need to do a little research before you start hypothesizing on who can beat who.

The Porsche 944 Turbo (turbo charged 8v 4) is capable of 0-60 in 5.7 seconds stock.

The Porsche 944 S (16v NA 4) is maybe capable of mid 6s

The 944 Turbo with a few thousand dollars is easily capable of 300+ hp and could embarrass a NA NSX.

I know of a a moded turbo 944 take could a Z06 vette and then some.

 

[G-man]

Not a fair race! A NSX should match up with a NA 996, not a 930, and still should be abke to beat it with equal drivers. Lose some weight, some very minor mods, and the 996 NA will be history.

Yeah, I have to agree. I don't think the 930 was trying as hard as you were, especially on public streets. I know on the race track at VIR my 1996 Porsche C4S was 4 seconds a lap FASTER than my 2000 NSX-T. Most of this advantage was due to the 3.6 mile, 19 turn course and the higher corner entry speeds and deeper braking available with the superior Porsche "Big Red" brakes on the C4S that come from the Turbo. It really was no contest. The Porsche was faster on the track hands down. This model C4S had 282 hp and all-wheel-drive, so it is evenly matched with the NSX.

I won't even go into how much faster my 2002 Porsche 911 Twin Turbo (996) was than my 2000 Acura NSX. While I never ran the 996TT at VIR, I did run it at Lowes Motorspeedway in Charlotte and it was considerably faster but not as good in braking than my 1996 C4S. So, my guess is that the 996 by virtue of the weight and over-run brakes would walk away from the NSX in the straight, but the NSX would likely catch even the venerable turbo in the corners.

I also found that the C4S had a higher top speed on the track than the NSX. My C4S would run easily over 160 mph all day long at the track. My 996TT I ran up to 176 mph on the Highbanks at Lowes before my instructor reminded me that the extra g-forces on my suspension and tires from the highbank would likely blow my tires at anything above 160, so I backed off of it. I have said it here before that I observed my Yellow 2000 NSX at NSXPO 2000 at Road Atlanta at 160mph-165mph. Many of you here have said that is simply not possible, but I beg to differ.

 

[G-man]

Fair or not, I think his point is that he's impressed by the ease with which his car dispatched the 930 Turbo, which was for many of us the paragon of automotive performance in our youth. But I agree, it can be awkward comparing cars from different eras.

Come to think of it, the direct P-car comparable for a '92 NSX would more appropriately be a 964.

Not exactly. Let's take a look...

1985 Porsche 930 Turbo
L 3.3 Fuel injected 6 cyl.
340hp weighing only 2,800 lbs.

This typical mod-ed 930 is what most of the these cars are. The displacement is just a little more, the weight is a lot less and the hp is about 50 hp more than the NSX. As I have always said, the real issue is now efficient the NSX is at putting all the power to the ground. There is very little power lost on the NSX between teh crank hp and the wheel hp. The NSX is typically 25%-35% more efficient than your typical car in that respect.

 

[ISONSX]

I am as big of a fan of the NSX as anyone... but Steve you need to do a little research before you start hypothesizing on who can beat who.

The Porsche 944 Turbo (turbo charged 8v 4) is capable of 0-60 in 5.7 seconds stock.

I agree. As I indicated in my original post, I am a former Porsche owner. One of the P-cars that I have had was a 944 Turbo with an Autothority Stage III chip. This REALLY opens up the car. The 944 Turbo runs very good with a few $$ of mods to it.

G-Man - The 930 owner is a childhood friend of mine and I can assure you he WAS trying. He might have backed out of it as I passed him to give him an excuse. I appreciate the Porsche marque. I envy your stable of P-cars, especially the 996 TT - WAY out of my price range, but for the money, dependability, and cost of maintenance I personally prefer the NSX. Now if I had the income to afford $300K of cars, maybe the aforementioned criteria would be modified.

The point of the post was to tell my story of the NSX performance versus a 930, the car that I almost purchased before I drove the NSX. I love the lines of the 930; the flares, the whale tail, etc. but when shopping in the $30-$35K range, there is no comparison between these two cars. I drove a 95 NSX at a dealer just to get a feel for the NSX and I was sold. The 930 is so antiquated by comparison - ergonomics, balance, you know the same reason that we all lovethe NSX. Never looked at another P-car the same way again.

 

[Lazarus]

Not exactly. Let's take a look...

1985 Porsche 930 Turbo
L 3.3 Fuel injected 6 cyl.
340hp weighing only 2,800 lbs.

This typical mod-ed 930 is what most of the these cars are. The displacement is just a little more, the weight is a lot less and the hp is about 50 hp more than the NSX. As I have always said, the real issue is now efficient the NSX is at putting all the power to the ground. There is very little power lost on the NSX between teh crank hp and the wheel hp. The NSX is typically 25%-35% more efficient than your typical car in that respect.

That's very interesting, but it seems your posting and my previous posting have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Perhaps you're quoting the wrong posting?

 

[G-man]

That's very interesting, but it seems your posting and my previous posting have absolutely nothing to do with each other. Perhaps you're quoting the wrong posting?

My point of issue was:
Come to think of it, the direct P-car comparable for a '92 NSX would more appropriately be a 964.

All I was doing was showing how close the 930 was to the NSX and saying that the 964 might not be the closest comparison when the 930 is actually pretty close to the NSX anyway.

 

[Lazarus]

My point of issue was:
Come to think of it, the direct P-car comparable for a '92 NSX would more appropriately be a 964.

All I was doing was showing how close the 930 was to the NSX and saying that the 964 might not be the closest comparison when the 930 is actually pretty close to the NSX anyway.

Oh, I see what you mean now. My comments were based more on the market-availability side of things, as the 964 was the then-current 911 in the year 1992. It's amazing how these two cars, the 911 and the NSX, are perennially pitted against each other in virtually any comparison of the world's best sports cars.

Anyway, thanks for clarifying.

 

[jlindy]

I assume you are speaking of a 944 turbo. This car is a slug, you will kill it. They made a 944s that was faster but not even close. The 928 has a v8 and is faster yet, but again no contest unless modified. Don't mess with a late model 911 turbo or anything that says RUF on it!!

Depends on which one. The 944's can be made fast easily and pretty cheap too with a few mods. I hate the looks of them, but they aren't that bad for a 4 cyl. As far as the 928's, they are really only meant for 60+ and up. They are big, solid machines that basically have two 944 engines in them and scream in higher speeds. (172mph for a stock car isn't bad) They are rare and unique, but terrible off the line. (at least mine was) WHAT A MAINTENANCE NIGHTMARE! Everything is controlled by a vaccuum so it was always breaking seals.

 

[Steve]

NeSX,
You are right, I spoke before researching, but I do not remember ever seeing a 944s Turbo run better than 13.6 through the 1/4 mile and It seemed like the S was quite rare in comparison. I am not educated on the 944, I have never been a fan of anything except the 911. In my opinion, the 944 is not in the same league as the nsx. The depreciate like crazy and have just never done anything for me. The 911 is a different ballgame. My sis has a Ruf 930 and it is unbelievable. I considered a 911 Turbo but my wife was not impressed at my sisters car as she thought it to be way unrefined. That is what I love about her car but the same thing also makes me appreciate mine. If I had my rathers, my car is more fun to drive. I have had both on the track, hers is faster, but I would still take mine.

 

[NSXSHO]

Raced a 87 930 turbo!!!!

Although an NSX can beat a 79 930, it is not the same with an 87. I raced my friend on the turnpike multiple times coming from Topeka (50-130) and it was dead even to a point and then he started to ever so slightly pull away. His is an 87 911 turbo convertible with 26,000+ miles and it is bone stock. Now that I have done headers and exhaust it would probably be a different outcome though. I gained even more respect for the 911 Turbos though.

 

[whiteNSXs]

The Porsche 944 Turbo and Turbo S are some kick-ass cars in their own right. With some simple and inexpensive mods, they are extremely capable machines. They are by far the most underated Porsches in terms of sheer speed. I have never owned a 944 turbo and probably never will, but I will not want to race one. The old water-cooled Porsches are truly works of art in their time. I would not be so quick to write them off.
Steve

 

[ISONSX]

The Porsche 944 Turbo and Turbo S are some kick-ass cars in their own right. With some simple and inexpensive mods, they are extremely capable machines. They are by far the most underated Porsches in terms of sheer speed.

I would not be so quick to write them off.
Steve

So true. Althought the styling might be getting a little dated, they are by far the best bang for the buck Porsche. I purchased my first 87 944T in '91 and had it for 4 years. New price was $40K, I bought mine with 40K miles on it 4 years old for $13.5K and sold it with 100K on it for $11K and only put probably $1,000-$1,500 in maintenance in it over the 4 year ownership period. The 944T with some low cost mods as Steves suggests can run very hard and from my experience on par with an early 930. I had mine to 165 mph.

 

[OLDE GUY]

1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S vs 1994 NSX

I owned a 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S (255 HP) for 10 years and tracked it many times. Eventually I put the Porsche Cup Bilstein coilover suspension on it, lowered and corner balanced it and added a roll bar and wider tires. No chip since I don't believe in abusing a motor.

A year ago, I sold it and bought a 1994 NSX and ran on the same tracks. My first time at Roebling Road near Savannah, GA, the stock NSX with old mismatched tires came out of the Ss and entered the front straight at 104 MPH (same as the modified 944 Turbo) and was 4 MPH faster at the end of the straight at 137 MPH. I was very impressed.

However, there is no doubt that the Porsche/Brembo "Big Black" brakes are a lot better than the stock NSX brakes. I miss the "Big Blacks".

Recently, I modified the NSX by taking off the brake splash guards, adding the Dali front air deflectors and using Carbotech Panther + pads. But I am still not up to the "Big Black" capability.

 

[jlindy]

Re: 1988 Porsche 944 Turbo S vs 1994 NSX

I No chip since I don't believe in beating up a motor.

I

Not all of the authority chips beat up the motor from what I have been told. The stage one chip adds some power without too much of the potential side effects that the higher chips add. (Stage III)

 

[OLDE GUY]

Modified 944 Turbos

Last weekend I did a 3 day DE at VIR North course near Danville, VA.

In my run group there was a modified 944 Turbo with chip, coilover suspension and "Big Red" Brembo brakes running 255 front and 275 Kuhmo Victor Racers.

No contest with my NSX shod with OEM RE 010s.

So I agree with WhiteNSXs, they can be awesome track cars. But my thing is to run what I drive to the track - no trailer. I am a minimalist.

There are two reasons that I sold the 944 Turbo: 1) I came to hate the turbo lag driving anywhere except on the track (just a dog until the turbo kicked in) and 2) the top of the motor looks like a bird's nest with all the vacumn hoses - I saw more problems coming. I love the simple, minimalist look of the NSX motor, the VTEC and the 8000 RPM.