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Cobalt Friction - "new" GT Sports Squeal Like a Pig

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30 August 2005
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I went with Cobalt GT Sports because everyone said they were a good street/track pad with little or no squealing. They are now using a "new" compound and I received a set of those. Installed them, and bedded them in. Rears squeal like a pig, and I mean loud! So I took them apart and tried using Honda Molykote instead of the cheap stuff from Autozone. Still squealing. The fronts by the way are quiet as a mouse. OK, just got new RacingBrake rotors yesterday. So I installed them and made sure the rear calipers were clean and well lubed. Went out and bedded them in. Let the car sit for a while and just went for a quick test drive... nope, still squealing! :mad:

Andie at Cobalt wasn't any help... "Noise from the rear is strictly caused in this case by the pad dragging on the disc (residual pressure) when the brake pedal is not being applied. I would look to see if the rear caliper slides freely and that the parking brake is adjusted properly, but please do realize that low line pressure noise was not a design parameter of the GT-Sport."

OK, so why are the fronts quiet as a mouse and the rears squealing like the UPS truck? Should I try taking the OEM shims out from the rear? I don't mind a little squeal, but this is really ridiculous (I mean they are really, really loud)!
 
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Personally I don't use OE backing plates, and would suggest removing them. You'll notice they are a very thick pad to begin with; as you slowly turn the rear's piston all the way in to get the needed installation clearance.

Also, did you try Andrie's advice? It would not hurt to check the slider action, check the e-brake adjustment, and inspect the pads and rotors why you are back in there. The hydaulics should not be an issue. If it is as loud as you say in the rear... obviously there is contact, and the issue is not the pad compound/product.

Here's my 2 cents.

I took my old Cobalt Friction GT Sports off the beater, and have been running around for the past week on the new XR2's front and updated GT Sports in the rear. The XR2 is Andrie's production version Prototype/GT Touring pad with slightly lower initial bite.

No issues, but once you get things worked out, if you think the Sports are bad on the street.. these are a fundamental new level of dust, noise, torque, and squeel. Although, personally I think they would compliment RE-01R's quite nicely. :wink:

I am very happy. I can't wait to tag an open session next week and put them to good use. So far, two thumbs up to Andrie on the XR2's... and to Starbucks for the sealed coffee cup. :smile:
 
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few ways to check if your rear is dragging, jack up your rear, both sides, will you be able to turn the wheel/tire by hand?

when you come to the stop from rolling in neutral, does it stop as if someone was applying brake for you. (ie, in a very slight slope, your car should roll to stop naturally, and start sliding back.)

when you put the rear pads in, did you turn the caliper piston to this + upright position?
 
I give up! :mad:

Rears aren't dragging... I adjusted the Parking Break, tried taking out the OEM shims, made sure the caliper piston was + (horiz & vert)...

They squeal loud and the squeal consistently... every stop, even when you are hard on the brakes or when you brake lightly... from 20 mph down.

Guess I am going to try some Hawk HPS or Project Mu and use these just for the track. Which defeats the purpose of why I bought them in the first place - street/track use.
 
I give up! :mad:

Rears aren't dragging... I adjusted the Parking Break, tried taking out the OEM shims, made sure the caliper piston was + (horiz & vert)...

They squeal loud and the squeal consistently... every stop, even when you are hard on the brakes or when you brake lightly... from 20 mph down.

Guess I am going to try some Hawk HPS or Project Mu and use these just for the track. Which defeats the purpose of why I bought them in the first place - street/track use.

I dropped a PM. It is difficult to gauge over the net as everyone is different. Still rears only? What other pad compounds have you used to compare to? It could also well be 'normal squeel' as opposed to 'bad squeel'. :biggrin:

Either way, you might try bedding them in again. I never had the GT's squeel every single time under 20mph. Although, some level of brake noise is usually considered acceptable. I have my girlfriend driving on hawk blues already, and she doesn't seem to mind. :cool:
 
Try chaffing the outside edges of the pads. If I am not mistaken, Cobalt Friction's new compound is ceramic, used by many other manufacturers of pads in the industry. Even NAPA Auto Parts carries ceramic pads as their high end pad product and they too squeal when cold.

Here is a discussion: http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=66965&highlight=chaffing+pads

All the claims against noise/squeal re Carbotech Panther Plus (now called AX6) are based on the same reason. I have chaffed mine 1/8" and hardly get any squeal, and they perform pretty well, even with 240 lbs of added passenger weight at Infineon and Laguna Seca where braking is critical :eek: :wink: ......... The Bobcats squeal even less as they are for street driving. HTH.
 
I think you guys mean 'chamfer' not chaffing.
 
One definition of the verb chafe is: to rub so as to wear away.

Chamfer is defined as: to cut a furrow in (as a column); usually at 45 degrees to the adjacent principal faces.

Chamfer is the better choice of the two; but chafe is easier to communictae the message :wink:
 
If I asked one of my techs in the machine shop to chafe something at 45 degrees they'd think I was crazy.:biggrin:
 
Did you get new rotors for rears as well? If the rotors are grooved, it'll morelikely squeal.
 
Nope.. new rotors front and rear. I am giving up and going back to stock and just going to switch them out for track events.
 
UPDATE: Put the stock pads back on the rears... no noise at all. So the fronts are running GT Sport and the rear is stock and there is no noise. Therefore, the rear GT Sport pads squeal and LOUD. I guess I will just swap them out before track events. So if you are hoping to use the GT Sports for street/track you might want to think again because the rears squeal like a pig.
 
The Cobalt XR-Series Carbon-Ceramic brake pads are based on hybrid sintermetal technology coupled with secondary carbon precursor deposition, making them unlike any other brake pad on the market. The XR-Series is the result of considerable R&D, taking from what we have learned over the years working with race teams in Grand Am Rolex & Cup, World Challenge, and SCCA club racing. The benefits of the new materials are:

(1) much broader temperature range (50F min)
(2) zero-bedding
(3) excellent disc finish and pad wear rates
(4) unsurpassed consistency

The XR-Series materials are resinless and thus do not require outgassing or traditional bedding, providing true "out of the box" race performance. This performance attribute had been supported by/with numerous teams in Grand Am and World Challenge starting races with new discs and pads. Reference teams include Blackforest Motorsports (Grand Am Mustangs in GS and GT classes) and LG Motorsports (World Challenge GT Corvettes), as well as factory supported GM race programs in various series. Resin-based materials, which include all pads from the major manufacturers (as well as Cobalt's previous generation materials), rely on a combination of metallic fibers and resin as a source of primary structure (metallic powders also contribute when used in formulations requiring higher compaction pressures (above 10tsi, generally speaking), but to a lessed extent). As a resin-based material is heat cycled, the resin outgasses and at temperatures approaching and exceeding 1000F, begin to decompose; this is why you will see resin-based materials crumble and chip at the edges after multiple heat cycles. The Cobalt XR-Series materials, being based on hybrid sintermetal technology, are compacted at much higher tonnages (exceeding 20tsi), do not utilize metallic fibers, and achieve structural integrity via controlled atmosphere (nitrogen/hydrogen mix) sintering processed at temperatures exceeding 2000F. Thus, they possess much higher performance consistency over the life of the pad, both during a given session/race, and also when run after multiple heat cycles; e.g. pads that are used 3 weeks after a race still have the same performance characteristics as a new set.

Traditional sintermetallic compounds contain upwards of 50%-V metallic powders or fibers. Cobalt Friction has developed a method of sintering which permits a much lower metallic powder content, with maximum of 30%-V, and allows neck formation between metallic, ceramic, and carbon particles. The result is a material that is 70%-V carbon-ceramic, yet still maintains excellent structural integrity at temperature exceeding 1600F. Similarly, the high carbon-ceramic (5 types of carbonaceous materials, and 4 types of ceramic materials) content lends itself to a much higher specific heat capacity (joules per gram per kelvin) (up to 50% higher than traditional resin-based materials).

Lastly, please note that Cobalt Friction XR-Series materials are intended for track/race applications, meaning that braking performance and related attributes are the primary design considerations; noise and dust are very much secondary. For those looking to find a pad that has very low dust and noise on the street, yet will provide the level of braking performance and temperature resistance required for track/race usage, it is my opinion that this "perfect" combination of performance/aesthetic qualities are not wholly achievable, nor realistic to expect, at least currently. Some customers have noted displeasure with the new GT-Sport in terms of dust and noise, and while we are working on addressing these points, and some improvement has been achieved in the most recent iteration of the GT-Sport, noise and dust will never be completely eliminated, as altering the formulation to this extent will have a negative effect on performance. When our compounds are used for their intended/designed purpose, the results are excellent...trying to use one of our (and any) true race compound (i.e. compounds that can withstand actual race conditions) on the street will be met with some issues.

Regards,
 
what do you recommend using to spray or put on brakes to limit brake squeel?

and how do you recommend applying it?

thanks!
 
Back from the dead... :smile:

what do you recommend using to spray or put on brakes to limit brake squeel?
If your brakes are squealing because you are using a brake pad designed for track/competition use - the subject of this topic - then no spray is going to change that. You can eliminate the squeal by changing to pads designed for street use, such as the OEM stock pads.
 
The racing brake ep 500 pads from dali are a great street/track pad.

I have a full set on my oem calipers and they do not squeal one bit.

Better braking power than oem, and excelent modulation.

They are also very reasonably priced. $70 for the rears I believe.
 
The racing brake ep 500 pads from dali are a great street/track pad.

I have a full set on my oem calipers and they do not squeal one bit.

Better braking power than oem, and excelent modulation.

They are also very reasonably priced. $70 for the rears I believe.

+1. I like them and currently run them as my street pads as at my urging, they finally made a pad for the Brembo GT caliper. ps you can buy them direct instead of going through Dali.
 
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