I spoke to Comptech a few days ago and asked them what I can do to get more power then the 9psi kit. They said that they can goto a 9:1 and run 12ish PSI of boost. Has anyone done this and if so what is the rear wheel HP? I would go the BBSC but I would like to have the low end power of the CTSC not just 6-8k power that is only good on the track...
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CTSC
- Thread starter Ryanmcd2
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Their "high boost" kit doesn't typically make even 9psi and it is generally believed that the efficiency of the blower at that level is already falling off. This seems supported by the relatively low HP/psi gains on the extra boost compared to the standard kit. But let's assume for a moment that they can do something to achieve 12psi with reasonable efficiency. By that point you most certainly need an after-cooler, which is not easily done given the design of the CTSC. And what about fuel delivery? Surely you can't still get by with the existing solution unchanged. Then there's ignition timing which probably needs to back off slightly under high boost and RPM.
In other words, I'd question them further about the cost and advisability of such an effort.
In other words, I'd question them further about the cost and advisability of such an effort.
I talked with the head person that builds all of the engines for the cars. He said they have done it and it does work but I did not get 100% of the details, he also did a 400HP NA NSX that runs race gas as well as a 600+ HP turbo NSX. I think they can do it but he said it would be around 25k to do everything. May have to go the 996 turbo route if I can not get good power out of the NSX.
$25k for 400hp? What a bargain! I doubt very seriously that it still bears much resemblance to their normal system, and you could have much more power for far less money going turbo.
25k for the 400hp NSX? or the 600 hp NSX?
Where in Atlanta are you from? I'm downtown.
He said about 25k for a 400hp NSX, I guess that's about right because the SC = 9,000 and motor work and the cams, springs, and rest of the mess. I just want something I can drive and not have to mess with that has good power. No one off turbo, or a supercharger that I have to fly someone in or hope they are working that day if I need help. Comptech seems to be the best for support as well as they know what they are doing. I am downtown as well 30339
Call Gerry, he can get you around 500 to 550RWHP for around low 20k's. He did my engine. I am running turbo's and NOS.
Cybernations in Ft. Lauderdale FL have a turbo kit that is almost to completion.
And although you don't hear much about them, Factor X Engineering has one coming as well. (They're from Las Vegas)
I think the FI options are going to get a lot more interesting in the coming months.
Give Comptech a call.
They do indeed make a 10-12 PSI supercharger. Most people are not aware of it, because they have only made one or two so far for customer cars. It uses are physically larger Whipple charger. Power output is on par with the high-boost BBSC
It's prohibitively expensive however, because they must hand-fabricate the intake manifold. They apparently cannot beginfrom the cast manifold they use with the regular kit.
Perhaps if they received enough intrest from the NSX community regarding this product, they may consider putting it into production and making the necessary castings.
You will, of course need the lower compression forged pistons to reliabily run these boost levels. That's why they feel the market may be too limited.
My opinion is that the market may not be as limited as they believe, as the older, higher-mileage cars that have a history of track use can use an engine rebuild at this point anyway.
Who wants to start a letter-writing campaign??
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All My NSX'es Live in Texas
[This message has been edited by NSXTC (edited 05 March 2003).]
They do indeed make a 10-12 PSI supercharger. Most people are not aware of it, because they have only made one or two so far for customer cars. It uses are physically larger Whipple charger. Power output is on par with the high-boost BBSC
It's prohibitively expensive however, because they must hand-fabricate the intake manifold. They apparently cannot beginfrom the cast manifold they use with the regular kit.
Perhaps if they received enough intrest from the NSX community regarding this product, they may consider putting it into production and making the necessary castings.
You will, of course need the lower compression forged pistons to reliabily run these boost levels. That's why they feel the market may be too limited.
My opinion is that the market may not be as limited as they believe, as the older, higher-mileage cars that have a history of track use can use an engine rebuild at this point anyway.
Who wants to start a letter-writing campaign??
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All My NSX'es Live in Texas
[This message has been edited by NSXTC (edited 05 March 2003).]
I don't want to start a heated argument, and nothing against CT, but I wouldn't call that an established bolt-on and forget it kit with a significant track record to back it up. And I still don't see mention of an after-cooler which seems mandatory for a well engineered kit at that boost level. But at only 400hp from 12psi it clearly isn't very efficient so it is likely that they are forced to run richer and/or dial back the timing further than is ideal to compensate for the lack of a cooler.
Nope, I certainly wouldn't be interested in such a kit even if the did bring the price down.
Nope, I certainly wouldn't be interested in such a kit even if the did bring the price down.
I'm not clear with several statements and responses on this thread.
Okay, so the 400HP motor is NA and runs on race gas. So there are 3 motors mentioned so far in this post: 1) 12PSI SC w/ 9:1, 2) 400HP NA race gas, and 3) 600HP turbo.
"SC"?!? I thought this was NA. $25K for 400hp one-off NA engine or $25K for SC engine. What are we talking about here?
So the 400HP engine is the 12PSI SC? Does not make sense.
Ryan, would you mind clarifying? Much thanks.
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ojaspatel.com/nsx
[This message has been edited by Ojas (edited 05 March 2003).]
Okay, so the 400HP motor is NA and runs on race gas. So there are 3 motors mentioned so far in this post: 1) 12PSI SC w/ 9:1, 2) 400HP NA race gas, and 3) 600HP turbo.
"SC"?!? I thought this was NA. $25K for 400hp one-off NA engine or $25K for SC engine. What are we talking about here?
So the 400HP engine is the 12PSI SC? Does not make sense.
Ryan, would you mind clarifying? Much thanks.
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ojaspatel.com/nsx
[This message has been edited by Ojas (edited 05 March 2003).]
I think 25k is high, but I think comptech with 60 people that build RACE cars for a living is well worth it. Not a back yard / fix it shop, or a lets put a turbo on my nsx kit and I bet we could sell it too deal. I will stick with someone who has been there and done that. Let me know when you have to pass emissions and take the turbo off, or if it blows up. Or you are waiting for the next "update" so the BBSC has some low end power. I think Comptech has over 300 SC out there. I am sure that is more then everyone out there together. To each his / her own, I will let you know how it goes when I get it done. Also to get a 996 turbo to 650hp right is about 55,000. But this is with a 2 year warranty and the same company races the Le Mans and wins and is back by Porsche. You get what you pay for.
Sorry about that, the 25k +- is for the 12psi charger not the NA deal. I did not ask how much the NA was because it was I think a 9500 RPM car that had to have 106 to run and I don't want to mess with that.
No offense, but fear is frequently the result of a lack of knowledge. That's fine, and even wise for some people, but it's not backed up by facts.
While I agree with some of your comments about shade-tree systems, you shouldn't lump all current and future turbo options into the same basket. Virtually all serious problems with after-market turbo systems (other than owner stupidity) are fuel related. If an affordable ECU such as the AEM had been available and used when the Bell kit was developed it would have kicked royal butt.
Today there are a couple experienced shops and one very accomplished individual working on turbo systems. If the hardware on any of these is reasonably well selected and designed then a replacement ECU will make a great system which smokes the 400hp CTSC for about 1/3 the price. But it’s your money and you sound determined to spend it, so just be sure to wave as a squadron of <$8k turbos blow by.
BTW, I’m more impressed by someone who specializes in drivable street cars than race cars. In many ways they are considerably more difficult to get right because they need to work properly over a full range of conditions, work well at part throttle, idle smoothly, etc. Not to say CT doesn’t do that well also, I’m just saying that the race experience you quote doesn’t carry all that much weight with me.
While I agree with some of your comments about shade-tree systems, you shouldn't lump all current and future turbo options into the same basket. Virtually all serious problems with after-market turbo systems (other than owner stupidity) are fuel related. If an affordable ECU such as the AEM had been available and used when the Bell kit was developed it would have kicked royal butt.
Today there are a couple experienced shops and one very accomplished individual working on turbo systems. If the hardware on any of these is reasonably well selected and designed then a replacement ECU will make a great system which smokes the 400hp CTSC for about 1/3 the price. But it’s your money and you sound determined to spend it, so just be sure to wave as a squadron of <$8k turbos blow by.
BTW, I’m more impressed by someone who specializes in drivable street cars than race cars. In many ways they are considerably more difficult to get right because they need to work properly over a full range of conditions, work well at part throttle, idle smoothly, etc. Not to say CT doesn’t do that well also, I’m just saying that the race experience you quote doesn’t carry all that much weight with me.
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ryanmcd2 - Obviously this is a very different setup than what most of us "regular" CTSC owners have experience with. If you do go this route, I and probably many others would love to hear the full details and get your opinion about it after it is all done. And I want a ride in your car!!
I will let you know how it goes, I have always liked the turbos because of the power but I think Comptech is the way to go for ME. I am still looking at other systems but I will keep everyone posted here about what I find.
I was one of the very first Comptech customers. They featured a NSX on Car & Driver around 1994 and I immediately contacted them for parts for my 92. I guess I've grandfathered into the NSX aftermarket scene and can give a whole lot of history of the vendors. I bought their headers and eventually found my way to DC sports in Corona CA. for the install (no installers in Las Vegas at the time). I was surprised to learn at DC that they had made the headers for Comptech.... Lesson 2 came when my clutch failed and I contacted Comptech for a stronger unit. They said they were in the process of making one and I volunteered to be the first. After paying for a new OEM unit, having it sent to Comptech, I waited SIX months and got nothing except "The resin compound should be here anyday now." I eventually got my money back, no modified clutch, and had to find another source. I think Comptech eventually sourced their clutches to ACT. Lesson 3, when their SC unit first came out and the only other SC was a one off SC by George Peniche. George used a Vortech unit with an inline air/water IC. Let's just say the guys from Comptech spent an awful lot of time scoping out George's unit and badmouthing him. The Vortech project was originally mine but I gave it to George after I decided I wanted to go NA. We got 326 rwhp@9200 hp (9000RPM for my Nevada plates). Not too hard to do with all the readily available parts now, but was a challenge back in 95. The car is now near completion for 1000 hp. Yes, very much one off. I feel sorry for many of you who have to place a lot of trust in vendors based on the recommendation of someone else who isn't qualified and probably doesn't know any better. Better stick with engine tuner/builders who race high hp/high psi motors, who routinely blow motors on the dyno for R@D, to know what to do for the NSX. Sounds stupid but in my profession, you haven't been in the field long enough if you haven't had a complication. Any tuner who claims they have not had a serious mishap is either lying or inexperienced and probably both.
Say I wanted a car with 5-600 HP that would pass emissions and I could take on the track for hours at a time without overheating / blowing up? Is there such a thing? And if so do I have to run race gas? I don't care about MPG I had a Twin turbo Rx-7 that got 6mpg and would CRUSH all the nsx's that I have been in. I would like to get that kinda power out of my NSX I just dono where to go. The only car that several people have done over 600HP with all the time is the New 996 turbo that is why I was looking at that car in the 1st place. If I could get that kinda power out of the NSX I would keep the car for sure. Also I do know a little about tuning, my Rx-7 had a Motech that I had to do a map from scratch and that was a lot of fun, I also did all the work myself on that car. 
Originally posted by Ryanmcd2:
Say I wanted a car with 5-600 HP that would pass emissions and I could take on the track for hours at a time without overheating / blowing up? Is there such a thing? And if so do I have to run race gas? I don't care about MPG I had a Twin turbo Rx-7 that got 6mpg and would CRUSH all the nsx's that I have been in. I would like to get that kinda power out of my NSX I just dono where to go. The only car that several people have done over 600HP with all the time is the New 996 turbo that is why I was looking at that car in the 1st place. If I could get that kinda power out of the NSX I would keep the car for sure. Also I do know a little about tuning, my Rx-7 had a Motech that I had to do a map from scratch and that was a lot of fun, I also did all the work myself on that car.
Your answer lies in your question. The NSX was engine was NA by design. FI a hi compressioned NA engine is NOT the same as increasing the boost on any turbo car, RX-7, 996 or 993 Turbo, even the 3000-GT or 300ZXTT. Anyone who tries to FI a stock NSX engine with the stock ECU will hit a WALL with the compression and the ECU. You can maximize the efficiency with a really good intercooler setup (which is hard to do with our space constraints and midengine location)and "learn" how to live with the stock ECU maps. If you change out the compression and switch to an aftermarket ECU, passing emissions is easy, but the price jumps beyond what most NSX owners are willing to pay.
Fairly early on, the Comptech guys used a canned phrase "our compressor is very efficient and we don't need an intercooler". That's just plain BS. Truth is, in any FI setup, anything you do to decrease intake temps will improve efficiency and help wring out the last 20 or so HP for the same boost. The Comptech SC, sitting ontop of the manifold, can't accept an IC. Their "wall" is not very different from the Gruppe M, Bell, and possibly even the Basch unit, about 400. They just won't admit it. I have trouble believing anything they say to a trusting, uneducated customer.
Right now, try Factor X. Mike is a genuine tuner with lots of history in the engine building, management arena.
Yellow Rose
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Incorrect. There is a BBSC'ed NSX making 423 RWHP. And that is before his current upgrade project.
With or without an intercooler Andy?
Is this an off the shelve BB kit?
Is this an off the shelve BB kit?
At what boost, with or withut NOS, and any engine work?
I am going to call FactorX or whatever the company doing the big turbo is on Monday and I will see what he has to say. Again if it can pass emissions and not blow up or overheat and run on pump gas I am in.
Yellow Rose
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With or without an intercooler Andy?
Is this an off the shelf BB kit?
With an air-cooled aftercooler. It started out as an off-the-shelf BBSC kit, but has evolved from there with his own tuning elves.
At what boost, with or without NOS, and any engine work?
I *think* 9 PSI, no NOS, no engine work.
BTW, mine is at 8 PSI with a water-cooled aftercooler and with a soon-to-be-revised A-F ratio curve, I hope to pick up a few more ponies to be right at the 400 mark. Then it's on to the next step. When will this madness ever stop?
[This message has been edited by AndyVecsey (edited 10 March 2003).]
Is this an off the shelf BB kit?
With an air-cooled aftercooler. It started out as an off-the-shelf BBSC kit, but has evolved from there with his own tuning elves.
At what boost, with or without NOS, and any engine work?
I *think* 9 PSI, no NOS, no engine work.
BTW, mine is at 8 PSI with a water-cooled aftercooler and with a soon-to-be-revised A-F ratio curve, I hope to pick up a few more ponies to be right at the 400 mark. Then it's on to the next step. When will this madness ever stop?
[This message has been edited by AndyVecsey (edited 10 March 2003).]
Andy,
No, the madness never stops.
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92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
No, the madness never stops.
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92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED
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