Everyone Here Needs To Wake Up and Smell The Roses

[tbromley]

Well they don't all come w/ a manual but the one i drove did. Its got pretty decent torque for a 1.5 liter, really makes up for the horsepower being as low as it is. In sport mode it felt like any other small motor little hatch I've driven, I couldn't really feel a difference between it and normal combustion motor. It is very very quiet at idle.

I've read that the next gen IMA is coming out w/ the '12 civics, I don't think CRZ is supposed to get a refresh for 2012 but better to wait now than to buy one and have something better come out 2-3 months down the line.

Also the USDM version has no backseat but the UK model does. I'd need a 2+2 for my girlfriend's 2 yr old, so I'm sort of hoping that may be an option for the 2012 models.

Thanks, very interesting. Sorry for Hijacking the thread...

I can understand wanting a back seat!

 

[captainjman]

Honcho's made some good points and so has Mlambert. However, I believe that what Porsche is showing the world right now with the 918 and the hybrid RSR is that there is a future in hybrid technology on the race track. Everyone else is playing catch up big time and I believe that includes Honda.

Honda has directional issues. They were really doing well in ALMS and just about to really get that going but what happened - Porsche stopped LMP2 competition.

I believe that Honda and others are truly watching what Porsche is doing - whether Ferrari is going to do anything with hybrid tech - well who knows - but I believe Ferrari will be the last to move that way along with Lambo. I think that Lotus will come along and Audi - hell remember Audi was working on Diesel before everything kind of went hay wire in racing. Ferrari is the king of FI - but who is seriously battling them - Jag, Aston??? There are others... but F1 is another animal. Really isn't based off production vehicles is it.

So you have Super GT etc. I truly believe that the CR -Z is a small experimental picture of Honda looking at Porsche - I know, I know - no where near the performance. But the HSV10 is a bomb and if they just took that back to the drawing board and put maybe a V8 or even a higher HP V6 and coupled that with some Hybrid tech - well it could be pretty cool. It wouldn't take that much for Honda to do something like that.

When it comes to racing - Honda will not be bombed out of competition - sure they're struggling right now it seems, but underneath they are watching and working on things - you'll see. Call me crazy if you want but I will not give up hope on Honda.

Now I want to say something about CaptJman's comment on the Honda Civic SI and it is not super speed - but it is a damn fun car. You take that car and take the super charger off the Acura small SUV and strap that on and you will see something of a bomb. That car handles great. It's a cool car - I owned one for a year - now I had the 4 door - and it still performed. I wasn't bowled over by the transmission which struggled a bit in cold weather, but over all that is a pretty cool car. If I was on a budget - that would be a great solution to fun. I would rather have the SI two door than an S2000 - because it's a coupe. You can feel the VTECH kick in more than you do in the NSX I can promise you that. It's a cool little car and Jason I just don't think you gave it a proper run. When I took my salesman on "Mr. Toads Wild Ride" even he was surprised - I took him off on some of my back roads. Gave him a little excitement.

Acura is struggling I admit that the RL is a heavy turkey and needs a whole lot more development in the handling department to be a true 5 series competitior or Audi A5. But it's still a very nice car and here again it is struggling with identity issues.

Honda's motorcycle branch is on the ball - they need someone from over in that camp to come over and straighten out the other side!!! If they did and really put their mind to it they could blow the competition away. The only thing Toyota has going on is Truck Comp engines, engines and trannies they sell to Lotus and the LF-A which is just somewhere out there in the outer limits - I mean c'mon - you mean they can build that damn thing but can't build a Supra replacement? Geez.....

It may take some time but they are getting tons of feedback here and at the car shows. They may not look like they're paying attention but I believe slowly they are getting it and no one here knows just what is in the "minds of their engineers and admin" for the future. So just hang on.

Let me say one more thing - There is not one manufacturer out there that ever built a race car or sports car that doesn't look at Porsche - it is the leader - other than Ferrari. It is the developer and has more cool stuff under their belt than anyone. It is now building Cayennes, Caymans, Boxsters, 911s (more models than you can shake a stick at), Panomeras (now with twin turbo power - a mega bomb)- it is moving and stretching it's limits into worlds of performance and setting standards for all of it. Everyone is quietly watching.

The Japanese need to wake up and I believe they will. They wouldn't be building and trying to get the HSV into racing on exemptions if they didn't want to race. They do not want to "fall on the sword" on this one. Just wait and see. Even though we've been waiting plenty long just give em a little longer. If they didn't get exemptions then they'd get OFF THEIR DEAD ASS AND REALLY DO SOMETHING - ARE YOU READING THIS HONDA!!!!!

My 2 1/2 cents worth.....

Timbo,

Is it possible the civic si I drove had a compression problem? sure... but whatever the reason when I put the spurs to her all I heard was a lot of noise and it went nowhere. To be completely honest I was a little amazed.. based on what so many people have said what a great car it was I felt very underwhelmed. Perhaps it has issues,after all it was a used car. But if that is what the SI has to offer - I honestly can say that my chevy avalanche is 3 times faster in 4x4 mode with a full tank of gas, four people while towing a boat. NOT KIDDING HERE

I was amazed because I used to have a four banger GSR, and it was FAAAST as hell. I mean, for the money it was one of the fastest little cars I have ever owned. So when I heard about the SI and saw one I could drive I got all excited. When we went for the drive I reved all the way to redline, (yes the engine was warm) and nada. It took forever to get there, it made a crapload of revving noises but it really didnt keep up with the minivan next to us and I don't think they were really trying all that much.

I didn't take the turns I would in my own car, I didnt go for 0-100-0 runs or anything like that, but this car was SSSSLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW.

Like I said, maybe it had compression issues, but the one I drove was awful.

J

 

[Honcho]

Timbo,

Is it possible the civic si I drove had a compression problem? sure... but whatever the reason when I put the spurs to her all I heard was a lot of noise and it went nowhere. To be completely honest I was a little amazed.. based on what so many people have said what a great car it was I felt very underwhelmed. Perhaps it has issues,after all it was a used car. But if that is what the SI has to offer - I honestly can say that my chevy avalanche is 3 times faster in 4x4 mode with a full tank of gas, four people while towing a boat. NOT KIDDING HERE

I was amazed because I used to have a four banger GSR, and it was FAAAST as hell. I mean, for the money it was one of the fastest little cars I have ever owned. So when I heard about the SI and saw one I could drive I got all excited. When we went for the drive I reved all the way to redline, (yes the engine was warm) and nada. It took forever to get there, it made a crapload of revving noises but it really didnt keep up with the minivan next to us and I don't think they were really trying all that much.

I didn't take the turns I would in my own car, I didnt go for 0-100-0 runs or anything like that, but this car was SSSSLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW.

Like I said, maybe it had compression issues, but the one I drove was awful.

J

1991 Civic EX = 2374 lbs
2011 Civic SI = 2891 lbs

There's yer problem. The ol' Civic's been eating too many hohos

 

[NSXrebel]

Honcho's made some good points and so has Mlambert. However, I believe that what Porsche is showing the world right now with the 918 and the hybrid RSR is that there is a future in hybrid technology on the race track. Everyone else is playing catch up big time and I believe that includes Honda.

Honda has directional issues. They were really doing well in ALMS and just about to really get that going but what happened - Porsche stopped LMP2 competition.

I believe that Honda and others are truly watching what Porsche is doing - whether Ferrari is going to do anything with hybrid tech - well who knows - but I believe Ferrari will be the last to move that way along with Lambo. I think that Lotus will come along and Audi - hell remember Audi was working on Diesel before everything kind of went hay wire in racing. Ferrari is the king of FI - but who is seriously battling them - Jag, Aston??? There are others... but F1 is another animal. Really isn't based off production vehicles is it.

So you have Super GT etc. I truly believe that the CR -Z is a small experimental picture of Honda looking at Porsche - I know, I know - no where near the performance. But the HSV10 is a bomb and if they just took that back to the drawing board and put maybe a V8 or even a higher HP V6 and coupled that with some Hybrid tech - well it could be pretty cool. It wouldn't take that much for Honda to do something like that.

When it comes to racing - Honda will not be bombed out of competition - sure they're struggling right now it seems, but underneath they are watching and working on things - you'll see. Call me crazy if you want but I will not give up hope on Honda.

Now I want to say something about CaptJman's comment on the Honda Civic SI and it is not super speed - but it is a damn fun car. You take that car and take the super charger off the Acura small SUV and strap that on and you will see something of a bomb. That car handles great. It's a cool car - I owned one for a year - now I had the 4 door - and it still performed. I wasn't bowled over by the transmission which struggled a bit in cold weather, but over all that is a pretty cool car. If I was on a budget - that would be a great solution to fun. I would rather have the SI two door than an S2000 - because it's a coupe. You can feel the VTECH kick in more than you do in the NSX I can promise you that. It's a cool little car and Jason I just don't think you gave it a proper run. When I took my salesman on "Mr. Toads Wild Ride" even he was surprised - I took him off on some of my back roads. Gave him a little excitement.

Acura is struggling I admit that the RL is a heavy turkey and needs a whole lot more development in the handling department to be a true 5 series competitior or Audi A5. But it's still a very nice car and here again it is struggling with identity issues.

Honda's motorcycle branch is on the ball - they need someone from over in that camp to come over and straighten out the other side!!! If they did and really put their mind to it they could blow the competition away. The only thing Toyota has going on is Truck Comp engines, engines and trannies they sell to Lotus and the LF-A which is just somewhere out there in the outer limits - I mean c'mon - you mean they can build that damn thing but can't build a Supra replacement? Geez.....

It may take some time but they are getting tons of feedback here and at the car shows. They may not look like they're paying attention but I believe slowly they are getting it and no one here knows just what is in the "minds of their engineers and admin" for the future. So just hang on.

Let me say one more thing - There is not one manufacturer out there that ever built a race car or sports car that doesn't look at Porsche - it is the leader - other than Ferrari. It is the developer and has more cool stuff under their belt than anyone. It is now building Cayennes, Caymans, Boxsters, 911s (more models than you can shake a stick at), Panomeras (now with twin turbo power - a mega bomb)- it is moving and stretching it's limits into worlds of performance and setting standards for all of it. Everyone is quietly watching.

The Japanese need to wake up and I believe they will. They wouldn't be building and trying to get the HSV into racing on exemptions if they didn't want to race. They do not want to "fall on the sword" on this one. Just wait and see. Even though we've been waiting plenty long just give em a little longer. If they didn't get exemptions then they'd get OFF THEIR DEAD ASS AND REALLY DO SOMETHING - ARE YOU READING THIS HONDA!!!!!

My 2 1/2 cents worth.....

That's where I stopped reading.

 

[tbromley]

Jason, Your impression maybe pretty acurate - that's what my wife, Ana, thought - that it was just buzzy. The engine noise I mean. I sold it cause it wasn't fast enough but I thought it was fun. Had an interesting kick when the V started in. I kind of thought it had good handing. Oh well- obviously it didn't suit me too long cause I sold it in about a year. I had a need for speed! The NSX still seems quick to me. It lacks a bit of torque but I still think its just about right.

With that said I'm hijacking again but I am going to go to a test drive event of air planes and Porsches. Out at one of our small airports - you know it Jason - Peachtree Dekalb airport. I'm excited to see the planes but I'm really excited to test drive the new 911! That's my dream car - yes I admit it - the Targa 4S is the one - that is the one with DFI - a completely different engine than the one that gave Porsche it's headaches and some of those that owned them. Anyway if you want almost 400 hp - there aren't a whole lot of better options than the 911 S.

Now as to waking up - I still say that Acura/Honda will wake up one day. Maybe if they hurry I won't have to buy another 911.....:wink:

Timbo,

Is it possible the civic si I drove had a compression problem? sure... but whatever the reason when I put the spurs to her all I heard was a lot of noise and it went nowhere. To be completely honest I was a little amazed.. based on what so many people have said what a great car it was I felt very underwhelmed. Perhaps it has issues,after all it was a used car. But if that is what the SI has to offer - I honestly can say that my chevy avalanche is 3 times faster in 4x4 mode with a full tank of gas, four people while towing a boat. NOT KIDDING HERE

I was amazed because I used to have a four banger GSR, and it was FAAAST as hell. I mean, for the money it was one of the fastest little cars I have ever owned. So when I heard about the SI and saw one I could drive I got all excited. When we went for the drive I reved all the way to redline, (yes the engine was warm) and nada. It took forever to get there, it made a crapload of revving noises but it really didnt keep up with the minivan next to us and I don't think they were really trying all that much.

I didn't take the turns I would in my own car, I didnt go for 0-100-0 runs or anything like that, but this car was SSSSLLLLLOOOOOOWWWWW.

Like I said, maybe it had compression issues, but the one I drove was awful.

J

 

[tbromley]

That's where I stopped reading.

Unpardonable faux pas; sorry NSXrebel - that would be VTEC - so sorry. I will strive to do better in the future.

 

[DB92]

. We are the only ones that are holding onto the past where as the rest of the world has moved on.

Totally agree with that statement. Install a supercharger and enjoy the NSX for the fact that it is still the only poor mans mid-engine exotic till this day.

 

[Hksdrager7]

Totally agree with that statement. Install a supercharger and enjoy the NSX for the fact that it is still the only poor mans mid-engine exotic till this day.

Thats what it is and that why I have one. I have decided that the nsx is what the gt40 was in the 60s. Just some owners of there own car company that wanted to piss off ferrari and show them that they could be beat.

 

[influence82]

Isn't a CR-Z that seats 4 called an Insight?
I for one am very happy that I am able to afford such a cool car called Acura NSX. It has the best bang for buck and can be either a timeless classic or competitive racer.
The first NSX took many years to develop and was worth the wait. Honda's next production supercar will also take many more years to develop but when, not if, it comes out, will be well worth the wait. Some devoted fans lack patience. There was a big gap between the last Toyota Supra and Lexus LFA (I know it is not a good comparison, but they were the Supra was the fastest Toyota at the time), and the Nissan finally released the GT-R in the U.S. a few years ago after how many years (unless you count the Infinity G35 which also is not a very good comparison)? How long did it take Audi to release a pure supercar and not just a sports version of their sedans (which are not bad, but not supercar-class)?
I am just saying that these things take a long time to develop. There are just a few people who happened to be very vocal about this and cause great emotional stirs. Honda should take their time to develop their next supercar. Perfection always takes time. When they finish, a lot of people will be very satisfied and glad they waited.

 

[NSXrebel]

Isn't a CR-Z that seats 4 called an Insight?
I for one am very happy that I am able to afford such a cool car called Acura NSX. It has the best bang for buck and can be either a timeless classic or competitive racer.
The first NSX took many years to develop and was worth the wait. Honda's next production supercar will also take many more years to develop but when, not if, it comes out, will be well worth the wait. Some devoted fans lack patience. There was a big gap between the last Toyota Supra and Lexus LFA (I know it is not a good comparison, but they were the Supra was the fastest Toyota at the time), and the Nissan finally released the GT-R in the U.S. a few years ago after how many years (unless you count the Infinity G35 which also is not a very good comparison)? How long did it take Audi to release a pure supercar and not just a sports version of their sedans (which are not bad, but not supercar-class)?
I am just saying that these things take a long time to develop. There are just a few people who happened to be very vocal about this and cause great emotional stirs. Honda should take their time to develop their next supercar. Perfection always takes time. When they finish, a lot of people will be very satisfied and glad they waited.

It's not so much the lack of patience, but more of the BS Honda execs have been telling us for a long time now.

 

[Juice]

Honda has 2 options- make a car to legitimately compete in SuperGT or get out of racing.

We will have our answer in less than 3 years.

Done.

 

[captainjman]

Jason, Your impression maybe pretty acurate - that's what my wife, Ana, thought - that it was just buzzy. The engine noise I mean. I sold it cause it wasn't fast enough but I thought it was fun. Had an interesting kick when the V started in. I kind of thought it had good handing. Oh well- obviously it didn't suit me too long cause I sold it in about a year. I had a need for speed! The NSX still seems quick to me. It lacks a bit of torque but I still think its just about right.

With that said I'm hijacking again but I am going to go to a test drive event of air planes and Porsches. Out at one of our small airports - you know it Jason - Peachtree Dekalb airport. I'm excited to see the planes but I'm really excited to test drive the new 911! That's my dream car - yes I admit it - the Targa 4S is the one - that is the one with DFI - a completely different engine than the one that gave Porsche it's headaches and some of those that owned them. Anyway if you want almost 400 hp - there aren't a whole lot of better options than the 911 S.

Now as to waking up - I still say that Acura/Honda will wake up one day. Maybe if they hurry I won't have to buy another 911.....:wink:

I have to agree that the 911 is an excellent choice. Ok, you could argue that its a Beetle with the engine in the wrong spot like Clarkson always says on Top Gear, but its a lot of fun to drive! And I like the fact that they kept the main body design the same over the years... mostly...

I hope the new NSX learns from porsche that the car doesn't have to look completely different. Our cars look great. A few updates here and there and more power and its a done deal!

PDK, yeah, Ive been there a lot! If I happen to be in the area I will definitely go with you!

J

 

[robbiedawg]

Thats what it is and that why I have one. I have decided that the nsx is what the gt40 was in the 60s. Just some owners of there own car company that wanted to piss off ferrari and show them that they could be beat.

well said. this is a slight thread jack,but here's a car haiku i made up on pissing off ferrari for a thread i did a while ago:

honda made it great
8000 rpm scream
take that ferrari

 

[TURBO2GO]

Why aren't you all happy there is no new NSX? It keeps the value of yours higher, your car more rare, and desirable. I don't care there is no new one. There are plenty of other good new fast cars if you want one. From the GTR to the R8 to GT3's and used F430's all within the range of what an NSX could cost.

I hate to say it but I look at all the cars in the Acura lineup and none impress me AT ALL, they are all ugly, lost, "me too" cars. There is nothing that exciting at Honda, and even their green and hybrid technology is WAY behind Toyota's. Honda is a company with a lost identity and one that will be the first victim of market pull from the Koreans and eventually the Chinese.

 

[WingZ]

Why aren't you all happy there is no new NSX? It keeps the value of yours higher, your car more rare, and desirable. I don't care there is no new one. There are plenty of other good new fast cars if you want one. From the GTR to the R8 to GT3's and used F430's all within the range of what an NSX could cost.

I hate to say it but I look at all the cars in the Acura lineup and none impress me AT ALL, they are all ugly, lost, "me too" cars. There is nothing that exciting at Honda, and even their green and hybrid technology is WAY behind Toyota's. Honda is a company with a lost identity and one that will be the first victim of market pull from the Koreans and eventually the Chinese.

Hate to agree but with the new Civic being it's "definer" have to agree they've taken evolutionary to mean standstill. I keep waiting for signs of life but it looks like trucks and minivans are where Hondas passion is:frown:

 

[captainjman]

Hate to agree but with the new Civic being it's "definer" have to agree they've taken evolutionary to mean standstill. I keep waiting for signs of life but it looks like trucks and minivans are where Hondas passion is:frown:

I have to agree about the minivan comment. They put a lot into that new odyssey! In fact we really want one once we sell the truck. They gave us an Odyssey for an extended full day test drive and we fell in love with it. My wife's jaw hit the floor when I said I wanted it. Before we got married I made it clear that a condition of our marriage is that I will NEVER, EVER, EVER drive a minivan.

For those of you with kids, you already know how useful they can be. For those of you who dont have any yet, auto slideing doors are amazing with a baby! But the extras like HID's, and DOUBLE video system (2 movies at the same time on wireless headphones) and HDMI input so you can watch HD or play a PS3.... and the backup camera and front and rear beep thingies.... Yes its a minivan but its so damn useful.

I know that values will most likely drop if a new NSX comes out, but who cares. I would like to see AND BUY the new X. This car is missing a lot of power and despite my feelings that installing a turbo aftermarket is ok, I do have some fears. I would like it to be powerful from the factory, and to have all the technological gizmos that I love.

It doesnt have to be a bugatti veyron killer... but it does have to keep up with the current sports cars. Everything these days has 300hp in it. A car that looks as fast as the NSX must be made to outperform the others. I have learned my lesson to not underestimate the evo or Sti... but they don't look fast.... ours does, and therefore should live up to the expectation IMHO

 

[TURBO2GO]

What is a new NSX going to have that another car won't? 50% of the appeal of the current NSX is it's looks. I can guarantee you guys all these used NSXs are selling because most buyers like the exotic looks and affordable price. Honda has already shown us two ugly front engined cars. A fast ugly NSX is another GTR. You see how that's selling. So where is the inscentive for Honda?
Lotus made a mid-engine lightweight pretty car in the Evora. It's not selling. You guys want another mid engined car that looks great (which won't happen coming from the current Honda) and you want it to be fast and not priced too high, so the ten of us that will actually BUY such a car have an option. Honda won't do it.

 

[Silver F16]

What is a new NSX going to have that another car won't? 50% of the appeal of the current NSX is it's looks. I can guarantee you guys all these used NSXs are selling because most buyers like the exotic looks and affordable price. Honda has already shown us two ugly front engined cars. A fast ugly NSX is another GTR. You see how that's selling. So where is the inscentive for Honda?
Lotus made a mid-engine lightweight pretty car in the Evora. It's not selling. You guys want another mid engined car that looks great (which won't happen coming from the current Honda) and you want it to be fast and not priced too high, so the ten of us that will actually BUY such a car have an option. Honda won't do it.

+1. If it ain't pretty, it won't sell. Good luck with that one Honda.

 

[TURBO2GO]

The NSX was Honda's one-hit wonder.

Everyone here is still waiting for the second hit... it ain't coming.

 

[captainjman]

The NSX was Honda's one-hit wonder.

Everyone here is still waiting for the second hit... it ain't coming.

the S2000 wasn't bad either. The GSR was kinda fun too. But definitely a different league.

Just sad! Oh well, Guess we will just have to enjoy these cars we already have and buy an R8, GTR, 911 turbo, etc if we want something newer since these guys aren't going to build the car we want.

Let me know when news comes out of a new one, all this depressing "its not going to happen" stuff is boring! LOL

J

 

[TURBO2GO]

Even if it came out it doesn't mean it will be great. Honda has had a nice number of flops as of late. You've seen the fugly front engine 4 seat versions. They are already lost... save the ZDX and the Civic coupe Honda hasn't made a pretty car in years. A car with a long hood and a poor view of the road is not fun to drive like current car. So if its ugly but pretty good, and 100K, would you want it? Who wants to spend over 75K and buy ugly? Please raise your hand...