As someone mentioned, they need to stop giving Rubens the shaft with 3 stop strategies. It's not working.
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F1 2009 megathread
- Thread starter NSXrebel
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As someone mentioned, they need to stop giving Rubens the shaft with 3 stop strategies. It's not working.
Re: Least worst option
True, 3 stops is a handicap, or gamble at most tracks under most conditions but when they've got such problems with tires, they have to do something and trying to make them last or work on 2 stops is usually worse than 3 stops. The way JB was weaving around all race suggests the tires were warmest in the garage with the blankets on. Cripes, can it get any worse than that?
I'd have to look for the Ross quotes that explain that 3 stop strategy, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said. It's about the tires usually, although, as you know, there have been other last minute strategy decisions for changing the # of stops.
Ruby needs to either have faith in Ross or just shut up and toe the line. He has no leverage to be publicly criticizing or forcing the team to do anything. IOW, he ain't no Fred Alfonso. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
JB was on a 3 stopper too, was he not?
True, 3 stops is a handicap, or gamble at most tracks under most conditions but when they've got such problems with tires, they have to do something and trying to make them last or work on 2 stops is usually worse than 3 stops. The way JB was weaving around all race suggests the tires were warmest in the garage with the blankets on. Cripes, can it get any worse than that?
I'd have to look for the Ross quotes that explain that 3 stop strategy, but I'm pretty sure that's what he said. It's about the tires usually, although, as you know, there have been other last minute strategy decisions for changing the # of stops.
Ruby needs to either have faith in Ross or just shut up and toe the line. He has no leverage to be publicly criticizing or forcing the team to do anything. IOW, he ain't no Fred Alfonso. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
Just wait and it will re-air on Speed. You TiVo should pick it up at that point in time.
Next race is also on FOX, as usual, SpeedTV will rebroadcast it a week later.
Re: Rubens written off
Can't say as I can disagree with that likelihood. :frown:
Not sure if some bad luck isn't part of the prediction, but attitude certainly is, so James has given Rubens no chance of pulling off WDC.
Can't say as I can disagree with that likelihood. :frown:
Mathematically speaking Jenson will win unless Brawn GP run into reliability issues.
In 1991, Ayrton Senna won the first four races, and only three more through out the rest of the season, he still won the championship. The key here is for Button to keep close to Vettel or Webber, and I believe the poor traction that plagued Brawn cars during the last two races will not happen since rest of the GPs are supposedly must warmer.
It is amazing to see how fast the RedBull cars are advancing.
In 1991, Ayrton Senna won the first four races, and only three more through out the rest of the season, he still won the championship. The key here is for Button to keep close to Vettel or Webber, and I believe the poor traction that plagued Brawn cars during the last two races will not happen since rest of the GPs are supposedly must warmer.
It is amazing to see how fast the RedBull cars are advancing.
This is not a good comparison; in 1991 a different points system was in place, which awarded 10 points for first, with only 6 points for a second place finish. Since a certain period of dominance, the points system was revised in 2003 to prevent an early conclusion to the WDC, with first and second now separated by only two points.
I will agree it's Button's championship to lose, but Vettel is looking great in a great car... we need to cling to some degree of uncertainty.
Exactly why Button will most likely win. If we still had that points system, Vettel would be much closer to Button. Button would lose at least 4 points to Vettel if he came in 2nd, more if he placed 3rd or worse. As it is now, if Button comes in 2nd, he only loses 2 points to 1st place. All he needs now is a couple more wins, and to consistently score points, and the championship is his.
Lets suppose Vettel wins the last 8 races, he would end the season with 127 points. If Button comes in 2nd for the last 8 races, he would end the season with 132 points, and still be WDC.
That would be a major feat for Vettel to win all the remaining races. The worst Button could do and still win would be to come in 2nd for 6 races, and two 3rd places, and that would put him at 128 points.
I'm going to go out on a limb and say that Button will win at least 2 more races. Suppose he wins the next 2 races, and Vettel comes in 2nd. Now Jenson Button has 88 points, Sebastian Vettel has 63 points. Lets assume Vettel then wins the remaining 6 races, that would leave Vettel with 123 points at the end of the season. Jenson would have to place at least 3rd for the remainder of the races and he still wins by at least 1 point.
Let's not forget Mark Webber and Rubens Barrichello can and will steal points away from Vettel and Button. The Ferraris also look much improved, well at least Massa does, and Hamilton seems to have found some speed out of the MP4/24.
If Jenson Button wins at least 3 more races, he almost is guaranteed to be WDC, even if Vettel wins the remaining 5 races and comes in 2nd for 3 races. Button would only need to score 18 points in 5 races to be WDC.
This is my point; Button's lead would be far greater, but the larger points gap would create more incentive for drivers to fight for the win, resulting in more exciting racing (but that's a topic for another thread).
Under the old points system Button would have 62, while Vettel would have 39 - the differential is greater, but with RBR's improved form, they would be gaining 4 points over second place with a victory, while potentially taking away 6 points from Button with each 1-2 victory.
In this way, only 4 races, with 1-2 victories by RBR, could potentially swing the tide.
Under the current system, the points are closer, points are given for 8th place, and there is limited motivation to fight for 1st, when you only lose 2 points to second.
If RBR gets a 1-2 victory under the current points situation, they only take away 4 points from Button, if Button comes in behind Vettel, Button is only down by 2 points - such a situation would take 12 races to result in a reversal. Under a 1-2 victory by RBR, Button loses 4 points of lead per race coming in third, rather than 6 with the old system.
A victory is more valuable under the pre-2003 system than it is today. Drivers understand this, and are more cautious as a result; why risk a DNF over 2 points? If a 1-2 reduced your competitor's lead by 6 points, you would be more inclined to fight for position.
That is why numbers game is important for Brawn from this point and on.
If Button can win just two more, and finish on podium for the rest, there is no reason to believe he will not win the championship.
Let's put it this way, if Vettel or Webber win every single race for the rest of the season, and Button take second, or even some third, mathematically speaking, he can still take it. We all know none of the name above will be able to win every single race till the end.
Ross Brawn will make it work. He is a genius at that. There is a greater lost for Brawn GP if Button failed to win, or the team failed to win, there are millions of dollars to be lost as well from profit sharing.
As for your comment on Vettel looks great in the Redbull, he's got issues now that Webber is only a hair behind him in points. What is Redbull going to do if they are neck and neck by race 14?
God damn Team Redbull. That car reminded me of the 1991 Williams.
If Button can win just two more, and finish on podium for the rest, there is no reason to believe he will not win the championship.
Let's put it this way, if Vettel or Webber win every single race for the rest of the season, and Button take second, or even some third, mathematically speaking, he can still take it. We all know none of the name above will be able to win every single race till the end.
Ross Brawn will make it work. He is a genius at that. There is a greater lost for Brawn GP if Button failed to win, or the team failed to win, there are millions of dollars to be lost as well from profit sharing.
As for your comment on Vettel looks great in the Redbull, he's got issues now that Webber is only a hair behind him in points. What is Redbull going to do if they are neck and neck by race 14?
God damn Team Redbull. That car reminded me of the 1991 Williams.
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In my opinion Webber was 100% deserving of his first race win after 130(?) races...however Vettel is the clearly the faster driver and honestly I think it would be a dumb move if RBR didn't support him for the WDC.
Just purely based on the numbers Vettel has 3 wins in twenty something races to Webber's 1 in 130. And to add to that, Vettel has out-qualified Webber 7-2.
Vettel just really needs to work on his race starts because it always seems he loses 2-3 positions at the start then gets stuck behind someone most of the first stint.
Just purely based on the numbers Vettel has 3 wins in twenty something races to Webber's 1 in 130. And to add to that, Vettel has out-qualified Webber 7-2.
Vettel just really needs to work on his race starts because it always seems he loses 2-3 positions at the start then gets stuck behind someone most of the first stint.
http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3265_5437722,00.html
Vettel is naturally fast, but his greeness is showing. He is not as polished as Hemo during his rookie and second year. He will however, be a world champ some day.
Planet F1's team mate war is pertty good, they show how each drivers rank after the race and assigned them the points. At the moment, Webber is slightly ahead.
Vettel is naturally fast, but his greeness is showing. He is not as polished as Hemo during his rookie and second year. He will however, be a world champ some day.
Planet F1's team mate war is pertty good, they show how each drivers rank after the race and assigned them the points. At the moment, Webber is slightly ahead.
Re: STR must have really been sick of Bourdais
Big changes to the car, so Buemi won't know what to say; but I guess it makes absolutely no difference in this case since the new kid has no baseline to start with.
Big changes to the car, so Buemi won't know what to say; but I guess it makes absolutely no difference in this case since the new kid has no baseline to start with.
Re: Killer Bees should like this weather
From F-1 Fanatic:
And with new bits on the car and Ruby talking like he's back in line, maybe order will return to the circus for the weekend. One can always hope.
From F-1 Fanatic:
And with new bits on the car and Ruby talking like he's back in line, maybe order will return to the circus for the weekend.
One can always hope.
I prefer the rain. It levels the playing field.
Re: What? no Brawn fanatic?
Ken, what up bud? You not pulling for the Killer Bees? I'm shocked !!
Ken, what up bud? You not pulling for the Killer Bees?
I'm shocked !!
Button will win, or at least be on podium this weekend!
F1 sounds.
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F1 sounds.
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We ought to shift to hydrogen fuel cells powering electric motors. That way the drivers can concentrate on hearing their car's tires slide across the tarmac and adjust their driving style to suit. The drivers will hear the roar of the crowd as well.
And get rid of the amazing sound of an engine at nearly 20,000 rpm?....I don't think I could ever force myself to agree.
Good read from AS:
Brawn starts to feel the heat
After two Red Bull-dominated races and some very public complaints from Rubens Barrichello, Brawn is under pressure to get back on top in Hungary. Adam Cooper analyses the situation
By Adam Cooper
This is going to be a big weekend for Brawn GP as the team tries to regain the winning momentum that served it so well in the first half of the season. Red Bull Racing appears to be on a roll, and now it's a question of finding out how much of that is down to improvements in the RB5, and how much to the problems that Brawn clearly suffered over the last two races.
The low temperatures at Silverstone and Nurburgring affected everyone to a greater or lesser extent as they tried to get the best out of the tyres, but there's little doubt that Brawn suffered more than most. The team is convinced that in Hungary – where it's been 38 degrees ambient this week – things will turn around. With the supersoft and soft tyres in play, and a track that traditionally reflects Monaco form, Brawn should in theory be well set. There are also new parts, but then of course RBR hasn't exactly been resting either.
It's going to be very hot in Budapest this weekend, but the real question is how warm things will be in the Brawn motorhome. Rubens Barrichello's outburst in Germany will have done nothing for morale in the camp at a time when it's under pressure, and everything has to go just right.
There's obviously been dialogue between Rubens and the management since the race, but to some extent the damage has been done. Things will never be quite the same again.
To re-cap, at the 'Ring the Brazilian outqualified Button and managed to jump pole man Mark Webber to take the lead, despite getting a fairly big whack in the sidepod from him. With Heikki Kovalainen holding everyone else up in third, it seemed that even if Webber as expected got ahead at the first stops, Rubens was a safe bet for second. And when the Aussie got that drive through penalty, he may even have thought he could still win the thing.
And yet having led at the first stops, he tumbled down to sixth, beaten even by a Williams that had started 15th. The cause was a combination of factors, including a three-stop strategy forced on Brawn by the tyre situation, and a fuel rig problem that cost priceless seconds and track position. And finally there was the decision by the team to bring him Rubens for his last stop a lap before team-mate Jenson, thus giving the Briton the opportunity to jump him for fifth.
Trying to untangle exactly what happened as the race unfolded was not easy, and left Rubens frustrated. He led at the start, yet he finished sixth. It made little sense to him, and the swap of places in the final stop was the last straw. In Barcelona he was disappointed to have lost the win, but this time, the level of emotion was several levels higher. He came straight from parc ferme to the TV interview pen. I was standing next to BBC's Lee Mackenzie, and what he told her was incendiary stuff. He was almost on the verge of tears.
"On the strategy, on the pitlane, it was a good show from the team how to lose a race today. For me it's a terrible upset with the way things have gone. I did all I had to do. I had to go first on the first corner, that's all I did. Then they made me lose the race, basically.
"If is really what's going on, we're going to end up losing both championships. And that's even more terrible. So I feel sorry for myself, I feel sorry for the team. To be very honest with you, I wish I can get on the plane and go back home right now. I don't want to talk to anybody in the team, because I don't want to understand... There will be a lot of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and I don't want to hear that."
So was he really saying that the team favoured Jenson?
"No I'm not saying that. I'm saying there was a good show how to lose the race today. I'm not saying that they favour anyone.
"Today I was the driver in front, and I should have stopped after Jenson, basically. But I stopped the lap before, and he overtook me there on a straight fight, so it's a bit sad on that."
At that point he'd had enough, and he went to talk to the Brazilian broadcasters. Meanwhile his comments had been beamed live by the BBC, and heard in the Brawn motorhome. It wasn't long before the team management was brought up to speed on what he'd said.
A couple of hours later after talking to the team Rubens had calmed down, but his basic position had not changed, especially regarding the team's decision on the final pit stops.
"Apparently because of all the problems he had at the beginning he was able to save more fuel," Rubens said when I asked him if that was the key issue. "That's the explanation. I drove as fast as I could to try to keep in front, and it wasn't the case. I'm a very much fair guy, and justice for me is everything in life, so that's why I demand answers from everything.
"The team agree that they basically had a problem on the pitstop, they apologised for that, and the reason why Jenson pitted later is apparently he saved fuel. It's not my intention to get onto a fight with the team, because I wanted to win the championship as well. I just need to put my head down and work as hard as I can and get back here for Hungary with heads up and with a smile on my face and work all over again.
"I can definitely still have a good season because I'm very good in straightening things up and just tolerating if I need to. But at the end of the day if this is what it's all about, I can quit quite quickly at the end of the year. I don't pretend to do that. I have a lot of speed on myself, I just want to get on with racing."
After a similar disappointment at Barcelona Rubens accepted the team's explanation, and when I asked he insisted he would do the same this time: "I accept it now as well, it's my intention to do that."
Told that he may have some support from the public, he perked up.
"A lot of my past is related to what happened to Michael [Schumacher] and Ross, and people have that in mind. Basically that's why they support me, because it was wrong what was done to me in the past. Right now the only thing I've said is that the team end up showing how to lose a race in the way that we should have finished higher up.
"It was good enough to finish third today, I'm very disappointed to have finished sixth. I had twice problems in the pitlane. That basically kept putting me behind. A guy who was leading the race in the first lap shouldn't finish sixth, even if he's going slow or quick, it doesn't matter. I don't think he should finish sixth."
Ross Brawn later pointed out that someone who can only manage the 11th fastest lap in a race is not going to win it, and that was a good point. That first stint, with a light fuel load and Kovalainen riding shot gun, did flatter Rubens. As the race unfolded, the speed was just not there, although matters were further confused by the fact that Jenson ultimately seemed to get more out of the tyres.
Button himself had no time for the inevitable suggestions that team orders had indeed come into play.
"No. 100 per cent," he said. "Rubens knows that, and that's the way our team is. We work for two drivers, and that's the way it should be in F1. You should never question otherwise. It's a tough race for both of us, we both had a tough race. He finished sixth, I was fifth. That's it really. In the third stint Rubens was in front of me, and he was a lot slower, over a second slower than the times I could do, so that was a bit frustrating."
Nevertheless, it's hard not to feel sympathy with Rubens. Having been given a career lifeline he's unexpectedly found himself with a winning car, and yet despite outqualifying Button on occasion, victory has escaped him. And he may well feel that, with drivers lining up to replace him, this really is his last chance.
But the main thing is that he understands better than anybody what it's like to be in a team where one driver has the upper hand. Ross Brawn may not have done anything thus far to influence things in the favour of the perceived main championship contender. The problem is that Rubens knows that Ross knows a million ways to do just that...
Button won't have liked the turmoil Rubens has created, but he will no doubt just do his own thing this weekend, and hope that any tensions in the camp are diffused.
"The margin to Vettel and Mark is a lot smaller than it was two races ago, so we've got to get our arse in gear and hope that we're strong in Hungary."
Budapest could well define where this world championship is going. If in the baking heat Brawn returns to the front of the field, then all will be well, and the team will be in a position to defend its lead.
But if Red Bull is right there, or even ahead, then Jenson really will have a job on. There are one or two other potentially hot races coming, but there are several where it could be cool once again. And while Brawn's specific problems in the rain in China have been addressed – and both drivers have no fear of the wet – on balance you'd have to say the RBR guys will be happier when the heavens open. And history suggests that there will be one or two wet events before the end of the season.
"There's a lot of races to go, so we do need to worry a bit," Jenson admitted in Germany. "These are the two circuits that have been frustrating for us, because of the temperatures. If we're not quick on a hot track, then we've got to worry."
Brawn starts to feel the heat
After two Red Bull-dominated races and some very public complaints from Rubens Barrichello, Brawn is under pressure to get back on top in Hungary. Adam Cooper analyses the situation
By Adam Cooper
This is going to be a big weekend for Brawn GP as the team tries to regain the winning momentum that served it so well in the first half of the season. Red Bull Racing appears to be on a roll, and now it's a question of finding out how much of that is down to improvements in the RB5, and how much to the problems that Brawn clearly suffered over the last two races.
The low temperatures at Silverstone and Nurburgring affected everyone to a greater or lesser extent as they tried to get the best out of the tyres, but there's little doubt that Brawn suffered more than most. The team is convinced that in Hungary – where it's been 38 degrees ambient this week – things will turn around. With the supersoft and soft tyres in play, and a track that traditionally reflects Monaco form, Brawn should in theory be well set. There are also new parts, but then of course RBR hasn't exactly been resting either.
It's going to be very hot in Budapest this weekend, but the real question is how warm things will be in the Brawn motorhome. Rubens Barrichello's outburst in Germany will have done nothing for morale in the camp at a time when it's under pressure, and everything has to go just right.
There's obviously been dialogue between Rubens and the management since the race, but to some extent the damage has been done. Things will never be quite the same again.
To re-cap, at the 'Ring the Brazilian outqualified Button and managed to jump pole man Mark Webber to take the lead, despite getting a fairly big whack in the sidepod from him. With Heikki Kovalainen holding everyone else up in third, it seemed that even if Webber as expected got ahead at the first stops, Rubens was a safe bet for second. And when the Aussie got that drive through penalty, he may even have thought he could still win the thing.
And yet having led at the first stops, he tumbled down to sixth, beaten even by a Williams that had started 15th. The cause was a combination of factors, including a three-stop strategy forced on Brawn by the tyre situation, and a fuel rig problem that cost priceless seconds and track position. And finally there was the decision by the team to bring him Rubens for his last stop a lap before team-mate Jenson, thus giving the Briton the opportunity to jump him for fifth.
Trying to untangle exactly what happened as the race unfolded was not easy, and left Rubens frustrated. He led at the start, yet he finished sixth. It made little sense to him, and the swap of places in the final stop was the last straw. In Barcelona he was disappointed to have lost the win, but this time, the level of emotion was several levels higher. He came straight from parc ferme to the TV interview pen. I was standing next to BBC's Lee Mackenzie, and what he told her was incendiary stuff. He was almost on the verge of tears.
"On the strategy, on the pitlane, it was a good show from the team how to lose a race today. For me it's a terrible upset with the way things have gone. I did all I had to do. I had to go first on the first corner, that's all I did. Then they made me lose the race, basically.
"If is really what's going on, we're going to end up losing both championships. And that's even more terrible. So I feel sorry for myself, I feel sorry for the team. To be very honest with you, I wish I can get on the plane and go back home right now. I don't want to talk to anybody in the team, because I don't want to understand... There will be a lot of blah, blah, blah, blah, blah and I don't want to hear that."
So was he really saying that the team favoured Jenson?
"No I'm not saying that. I'm saying there was a good show how to lose the race today. I'm not saying that they favour anyone.
"Today I was the driver in front, and I should have stopped after Jenson, basically. But I stopped the lap before, and he overtook me there on a straight fight, so it's a bit sad on that."
At that point he'd had enough, and he went to talk to the Brazilian broadcasters. Meanwhile his comments had been beamed live by the BBC, and heard in the Brawn motorhome. It wasn't long before the team management was brought up to speed on what he'd said.
A couple of hours later after talking to the team Rubens had calmed down, but his basic position had not changed, especially regarding the team's decision on the final pit stops.
"Apparently because of all the problems he had at the beginning he was able to save more fuel," Rubens said when I asked him if that was the key issue. "That's the explanation. I drove as fast as I could to try to keep in front, and it wasn't the case. I'm a very much fair guy, and justice for me is everything in life, so that's why I demand answers from everything.
"The team agree that they basically had a problem on the pitstop, they apologised for that, and the reason why Jenson pitted later is apparently he saved fuel. It's not my intention to get onto a fight with the team, because I wanted to win the championship as well. I just need to put my head down and work as hard as I can and get back here for Hungary with heads up and with a smile on my face and work all over again.
"I can definitely still have a good season because I'm very good in straightening things up and just tolerating if I need to. But at the end of the day if this is what it's all about, I can quit quite quickly at the end of the year. I don't pretend to do that. I have a lot of speed on myself, I just want to get on with racing."
After a similar disappointment at Barcelona Rubens accepted the team's explanation, and when I asked he insisted he would do the same this time: "I accept it now as well, it's my intention to do that."
Told that he may have some support from the public, he perked up.
"A lot of my past is related to what happened to Michael [Schumacher] and Ross, and people have that in mind. Basically that's why they support me, because it was wrong what was done to me in the past. Right now the only thing I've said is that the team end up showing how to lose a race in the way that we should have finished higher up.
"It was good enough to finish third today, I'm very disappointed to have finished sixth. I had twice problems in the pitlane. That basically kept putting me behind. A guy who was leading the race in the first lap shouldn't finish sixth, even if he's going slow or quick, it doesn't matter. I don't think he should finish sixth."
Ross Brawn later pointed out that someone who can only manage the 11th fastest lap in a race is not going to win it, and that was a good point. That first stint, with a light fuel load and Kovalainen riding shot gun, did flatter Rubens. As the race unfolded, the speed was just not there, although matters were further confused by the fact that Jenson ultimately seemed to get more out of the tyres.
Button himself had no time for the inevitable suggestions that team orders had indeed come into play.
"No. 100 per cent," he said. "Rubens knows that, and that's the way our team is. We work for two drivers, and that's the way it should be in F1. You should never question otherwise. It's a tough race for both of us, we both had a tough race. He finished sixth, I was fifth. That's it really. In the third stint Rubens was in front of me, and he was a lot slower, over a second slower than the times I could do, so that was a bit frustrating."
Nevertheless, it's hard not to feel sympathy with Rubens. Having been given a career lifeline he's unexpectedly found himself with a winning car, and yet despite outqualifying Button on occasion, victory has escaped him. And he may well feel that, with drivers lining up to replace him, this really is his last chance.
But the main thing is that he understands better than anybody what it's like to be in a team where one driver has the upper hand. Ross Brawn may not have done anything thus far to influence things in the favour of the perceived main championship contender. The problem is that Rubens knows that Ross knows a million ways to do just that...
Button won't have liked the turmoil Rubens has created, but he will no doubt just do his own thing this weekend, and hope that any tensions in the camp are diffused.
"The margin to Vettel and Mark is a lot smaller than it was two races ago, so we've got to get our arse in gear and hope that we're strong in Hungary."
Budapest could well define where this world championship is going. If in the baking heat Brawn returns to the front of the field, then all will be well, and the team will be in a position to defend its lead.
But if Red Bull is right there, or even ahead, then Jenson really will have a job on. There are one or two other potentially hot races coming, but there are several where it could be cool once again. And while Brawn's specific problems in the rain in China have been addressed – and both drivers have no fear of the wet – on balance you'd have to say the RBR guys will be happier when the heavens open. And history suggests that there will be one or two wet events before the end of the season.
"There's a lot of races to go, so we do need to worry a bit," Jenson admitted in Germany. "These are the two circuits that have been frustrating for us, because of the temperatures. If we're not quick on a hot track, then we've got to worry."
Re: Gotta worry about something..........
So, the weather is going to be dang near perfect; upgrades to the car; everything should be in perfect order for Brawns to outrun the Bulls. :smile:
But.................I gotta wonder about that kid Alguersuari. First time in the car !!! Are they kidding?? He'll get lapped 2-3 times by the leaders; here's hoping he doesn't spoil the race for one or more of them by being a rolling chicane. I can see the ghost of Hiro Matshuita !!!
OK, got that outta my system.
So, the weather is going to be dang near perfect; upgrades to the car; everything should be in perfect order for Brawns to outrun the Bulls. :smile:
But.................I gotta wonder about that kid Alguersuari.
First time in the car !!! Are they kidding?? He'll get lapped 2-3 times by the leaders; here's hoping he doesn't spoil the race for one or more of them by being a rolling chicane. I can see the ghost of Hiro Matshuita !!! OK, got that outta my system.
Ouch, I hope Massa is ok after surgery. :frown:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...l;jsessionid=3233A2BEAB7FFF80BB139F83C3F726FD
Ouch, I didn't think it did that much damage...but I guess it was a piece of metal that hit him at a high rate of speed. Hope he gets better quickly.
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