Factor X vs. Gerry Johnson's Turbos

[prova4re]

Hey Len
SHOTGUN!........when you get it back. lol
Tell Gerry I got next.

KGP lighten up your going to scare him away.

You guy's from St louis must be smoking the same go fast crack pipe.
There is going to be a new video out called Getaway from St loius.
The My turbo is bigger than yours edition. LOL

Did I mention I have a tinny bbsc that takes care of ZO6's with no problem.

Devin (paynnsx) converted his car to obd1.

Gerry is the man!

 

[GQ NSX]

I can't wait for B&t's write up. Anyway--good luck in your decision.


ravi

 

[KGP]

KGP lighten up your going to scare him away.

Was I really too tough on the kid? Na, the kid has Len as his corner and cut man.

Speaking of go-fast: How long before B&T takes a hit off the same go-fast crack pipe that TurboNSX did?

 

[GQ NSX]

Gene:

I give him no more than a month. LOL

Speed has got to be the most addictive drug. Pun intended!

 

[KulSecHskY]

Was I really too tough on the kid? Na, the kid has Len as his corner and cut man.

Speaking of go-fast: How long before B&T takes a hit off the same go-fast crack pipe that TurboNSX did?

takes more than that to scare me away.

my clutch thread was more about clutch skills in general. I should've started it in Off-Topic. Last time I checked 97+ NSX's don't have the double plate clutches. =P

 

[bambbrose]

I have some personal experience with Factor X out of Vegas. The guys there tuned my friends turbo integra gsr. The baseline hp numbers were 240 but after tuning they got it up to 323 . They really truely are a talented group of people over there and I recommend them to anyone. The owners nsx is awesome also.

 

[nsxxtreme]

What I have yet to see posted is price. From what I have read GJ's kit is around $6500 and the FX kit is around $8000. Please correct me if I am wrong.

 

[NetViper]

What I have yet to see posted is price. From what I have read GJ's kit is around $6500 and the FX kit is around $8000. Please correct me if I am wrong.

I think both kits for 500HP are around $18-20K.

 

[nsxxtreme]

I think both kits for 500HP are around $18-20K.

I was under the assumtion we were talking about the base kits and stock internals.

 

[len3.8]

I was under the assumtion we were talking about the base kits and stock internals.

NSXX , I think since the HP ratings were not included in the first post, and NETVIPER has wittnessed the FX500, The default was to the 500hp version that FX puts out. Wich at 18-20k includes a total engine rebuild.. Capable of withstanding much higher boost.
B&T is running the PANSX (GJ) Turbo setup without the rebuild, so he is running a conservative boost. (which is still delivering great #'s) Costs are comparable with supercharger systems that are out there for sale. (maybe cheaper than some)

 

[KGP]

First, I'm not sure that the term "kit" should be used for either company. I think the word "system" makes much more sense. While either company can toss out a baseline price, the fact is you will end up steering that cost to meet whatever your goals are. There are differences in the two systems, and depending on what floats your boat, you might perceive one as a better value than the other. Likewise, the choices a person might make in tailoring their system to meet their requirements might not make sense to someone else.

One thing that I'm sure takes up a lot of both these shops time is responding to the rhetorical question, "how much?" So, let me toss out some budget numbers for those who like to kick tires in the FI world:

Low boost: They start around $8K. How you choose to tailor your system, including gauges, boost control, etc., could bring that number over $10K. Both systems include some type of intake cooling, exhaust, ECU, fuel delivery mods and tuning. A low boost system will take you into the low 400's, with much more area under the curve than any of the SC's. The only reason you could not produce higher numbers is because of the risk in damage to the engine, due to OEM internals.

Higher boost: Start around $18.5K. The big difference in price is attributed to removal of engine, machining and re-build to that shops specs (in concert with your wishes). Yes a few other differences that are there, but that is the bulk of the cost difference. How much HP can you produce? Depends on how you opt to have the internals built, etc. How high could the $ number go? I think it would be fairly easy for someone to spend ~$25K, but I also think you would have a heck of a system at ~$18.5K.

 

[NetViper]

For me the FX400 would be about $9500 and that is without any gauges or internal engine mods. -- I am not sure if I would also need to buy headers?? That is for roughly 400-420 RWHP.

A CTSC is $7900 for roughly 340-360 RHWP.

I did not get to drive the turbo, but I think the CTSC still has more low-end TQ. (2500-3000).

However, we did not go out very long or do a lot of low-end accelartion tests. Most was 5-8K of hauling ass turbo boost

I can say though ben nailed it in the parking lot and ran through 1,2,3 WAY faster than a CTSC feels. I have a huge

It would be well worth anyone thinking of getting one to drive both systems (SC and Turbo) and decide what is right for them.

 

[KGP]

I did not get to drive the turbo, but I think the CTSC still has more low-end TQ. (2500-3000).

No. I'd be willing to bet (heavily) that either system has much more area under the curve than any SC available for the NSX. With that said, the low boost turbo's are providing much higher overall gains, not just in the tq @ 2500-3000 area. What can be measured apples to apples is the output of power at a given boost level. So, B&T's car is at 6.5psi. Close enough to draw a comparison to the a CTSC (or any other 6psi SC). Once again, I'll bet his power numbers will be far superior to the SC at 6psi. Any takers? Same would apply for the FX system runing at 6psi vs a 6psi SC.

 

[GQ NSX]

I'd be game to bet on that. Wouldn't the headers be replaced by a manifold?

 

[KulSecHskY]

I'd be game to bet on that. Wouldn't the headers be replaced by a manifold?

It seems that B&T kept his aftermarket headers.

 

[KGP]

I'd be game to bet on that.

Ravi, are you saying you would bet on the 6psi SC versus B&T's numbers?

 

[GQ NSX]

Perhaps I should have elaborated. I'm with you on this one Gene, the boost comes on at very early rpm's with the turbo systems we are discussing. In almost every occasion I would be willing to bet that Turbo > S/C with equal psi. It's just a more efficient system, and dare I say sounds cooler too hahah.


Ravi

 

[Sig]

For a second I thought there was a taker!

 

[KGP]

A CTSC is $7900 for roughly 340-360 RHWP.

Before installation maybe. Then, if we are to try to make it more of an apples to apples comparison we need to factor in that the turbo has an intake cooling system (installed), and a superior EMS. How about trying this: Call Comptech and tell them you want the CTSC, you want it installed, you want an AEM for engine management, and you want it all tuned. Anyone have an idea of the price?

 

[len3.8]

For me the FX400 would be about $9500 and that is without any gauges or internal engine mods. -- I am not sure if I would also need to buy headers?? That is for roughly 400-420 RWHP.

A CTSC is $7900 for roughly 340-360 RHWP.

I did not get to drive the turbo, but I think the CTSC still has more low-end TQ. (2500-3000).

Netviper, Okay you buy the CTSC at $7900, How much is the installation another $1500 or so?

As far as the CTSC 6lb or high boost having more low end torque, I don't think so. At it's peak torque output it's not close eiher.
(BTDT) Go back and check out the peak torque numbers that some of the people with the CTSC were getting.

 

[KGP]

For me the FX400 would be about $9500 -- I am not sure if I would also need to buy headers??

If it were me, I would budget for headers if going to ~420. It has less to do with a given system and more to do with the EGT's from a given power level, as well as some gains in power. Would they be required? I'm not qualified to answer. I simply would rather err on the safe side, thus my recommendation.

 

[Sig]

To supplement Gene's remarks on headers I would add:

If you have an early year NSX with the wonderfully constrictive exhaust manifold..... then I wuld certainly recommend getting headers. If you have a later year NSX with the OEM "headers", then I would view aftermarket headers as a nice-to-have instead of a necessity.

 

[NetViper]

Before installation maybe. Then, if we are to try to make it more of an apples to apples comparison we need to factor in that the turbo has an intake cooling system (installed), and a superior EMS. How about trying this: Call Comptech and tell them you want the CTSC, you want it installed, you want an AEM for engine management, and you want it all tuned. Anyone have an idea of the price?

Gene, Why would I need an AEM and all that stuff when I buy a CTSC? After installation it is ready to go. No need to tune it. It is not a BBSC. I know of ONE person that has done the AEM on the CTSC (done by factor X), but the majority are installed and thats it.

 

[NetViper]

[
Netviper, Okay you buy the CTSC at $7900, How much is the installation another $1500 or so?

As far as the CTSC 6lb or high boost having more low end torque, I don't think so. At it's peak torque output it's not close eiher.
(BTDT) Go back and check out the peak torque numbers that some of the people with the CTSC were getting. [/B]

I can get the CTSC installed for a TOTAL cost of $7900 at Goodson.

As far as the low end TQ. Have you driven them both? Like I said, I did not get to drive the Turbo, but my impression was that the CTSC was still better at 2500 RPM. Infact, Mikey at Factor X said for track competition nothing bets the CTSC for low end TQ. He really likes the unit.

Maybe if I drove them both back to back I would get a better idea. I can only tell you what I felt. I don't need you to correct me based off of Dyno charts. -- and I have not seen a DYNO for the Factor X FX400 kit? Have you?

 

[KGP]

Gene, Why would I need an AEM ...

Don't get me wrong, Dave. I didn't say you would need an AEM. Point is that the AEM is far superior (for OBDI) than what you would get from the CTSC, and to compare values in an apples to apples world it needs to be factored into the equation. If you were to ask me would I personally go with an AEM with a CTSC, that is an entirely different question.