I dont understand how these systems cant play used games. Do you mean when you say "used games" you just mean older games?
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Gamers, are you getting the PS4, XBOX One or both this year?
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By "used games", they mean previously owned games. Microsoft plans to register each game to a player's specific Live account when it is first installed. If that owner gives / sells his previously installed copy to another person, they will need to pay a fee to install / play the game using their account....effectively killing off the used game market.
As far as older games are concerned, both PS4 and Xbox One are not backwards compatible with PS3 and Xbox 360.
PS4. My 360 collects dust. Much better first party games and third party exclusives (as rare as the later is). Might get a xbox one down the line if it's games roster warrants it.
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That isn't confirmed yet. I would guess it has a lot to do with piracy - which is a big issue on xbox360. My friend steals everything on Xbox.
That isn't confirmed yet. I would guess it has a lot to do with piracy - which is a big issue on xbox360. My friend steals everything on Xbox.
Publishers do not like used games because they do not get a cut on the resale. They also see it as a lost new sale. This is a way for the publishers to monetize a situation that was previously outside of their control.
A side effect of this, you cannot just bring your game to a friend's house to show off and play. It is locked into your profile, so you would have to load your profile on your friend's machine first in order for it to work.
Exactly. So just because you bought it doesn't mean you own it. You have no right to resell something that YOU paid for. DRM didn't work for the music industry; why would it work here? M$ is screwing with their own success. It's idiocy.
I'm going to wait and see how it all shakes out.
I heard a rumor the PS4 is going to be always on with DRM just like the XBOX.
We'll see...
If neither can play used games(without a fee!!!!), then I will buy neither.
I refuse to let these companies who I've always supported treat me like that.
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I heard a rumor the PS4 is going to be always on with DRM just like the XBOX.
We'll see...
If neither can play used games(without a fee!!!!), then I will buy neither.
I refuse to let these companies who I've always supported treat me like that.
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A popular tactic for a lot of really serious gamers is to:
1. buy a game at full retail as soon as it is released ($60)
2. do a marathon playing session to beat the game (1-2 weeks)
3. sell it at GameStop or eBay for a portion of what they paid ($40-$45)
Net cost to them to experience the game = $15-$20
Other gamers benefit from that as well. Lets say all your friends are playing "DemonSlayer 7"; rather than going to BestBuy and buying it full retail, you hit eBay and find it for about 20-25% cheaper in practically new condition. Score!
the new xBox (and probably PS4) is looking to sink that market though and make sure that everyone pays full retail for their games. It also allows the publishers to control the game price rather than the independent markets setting the price points (ie. if you can buy the game on eBay for $40, stores like BestBuy & Walmart push for the game to also cost $40 and drive down the price).
In the long run, it will be interesting to see how this pans out. Gamers won't magically sprout more twenty dollar bills in their pocket, so they will likely turn to other pursuits rather than continuing to purchase games as frequently. I suspect that launch day sales figures will drop significantly if the used game market is removed from the equation as the early adopters can't hedge their bet on the game by simply selling it post-release if it sucks. Overall sales volume may decrease as well as prices stay a bit higher; I know that I personally might hold off for a bit on purchasing a game if it stays in the high price range for so long. Given the already high sales volume in game sales, I am not sure that the game companies will really be able to wring that much more cash out of the system.
The PS4 was rumored to be doing the exact same things. But since the big Xbox splash, Sony has been interestingly quiet on these subjects. I would guess they are looking to see how it pans out. But have no doubt, they want the same things for their console if they can manage their consumer's expectations.
I agree with a lot of what blue_myriddn has said. And just to add to it, there has been so much internet backlash that Xbox One sales may suffer, badly. They might have taken a few steps back from the inroads they have made, and pushed the PS4 as the defacto console to buy. I know for certain that I have a wait and see attitude about the whole thing. It's a little too intrusive just to play a video game.
I agree with a lot of what blue_myriddn has said. And just to add to it, there has been so much internet backlash that Xbox One sales may suffer, badly. They might have taken a few steps back from the inroads they have made, and pushed the PS4 as the defacto console to buy. I know for certain that I have a wait and see attitude about the whole thing. It's a little too intrusive just to play a video game.
My bet is Sony will keep their mouth shut until Xbox falls on its face with the new one because of the Used market money grab. Then Sony will say well it didn't work for them lets grab the rest of the market share. Who knows maybe it will work Mommy and Daddy need baby-sitters and after pumping there kids with psychotropic zombie meds what else are they going to do. Go outside LOL
I'm curious how many here have bought used games. I never have. Nor have a sold a use game.
Developers feel the sting of piracy, used games, and even rentals. The bulk of our profit comes from initial sales...and we get only a percentage of what goes to the publishers. Neither publishers or developers directly benefit from piracy or the pre-owned game market. We get no proceeds from rentals. I can understand why Sony and Microsoft are looking for solutions to these issues, though I may not always agree with how they choose to confront them.
Historically I have worked on story-driven single player experiences which could easily be beaten within a single overnight rental. Developers spend two to three years (or more) creating such games with teams that have swelled to over 100 before outsourcing (which has sadly become a necessity), and have been forced to increase gameplay length and add multiplayer components just to reduce the chance that players might opt to not purchase the game at retail or via digital download. Quantity usually comes at the expense of quality (GTA anyone?). The future of such single player games is definitely being threatened.
On the other side of the coin, I have owned multiple systems for three console generations...and I absolutely hate the idea of a hardware manufacturer punishing its most loyal customers. Steam makes it very easy to install copies of the games I buy on PC...all I need to do is log in to Steam, install, and play. Sony currently restricts digital downloads to being installed on two PS3s (initially they allowed up to 5). I can understand why they did this because even I had used this policy to my friends' advantage (meaning I logged into their PS3 and installed my purchases). When they changed the policy, I had no problem unregistering my copies from their consoles, but this did introduce an issue when one of my two PS3's died and needed to be replaced. I had to contact Sony to unregister the installs from the dead console...and I think they are only willing to do this once. Hopefully they learn from such situations or they will lose customers. With Xbox One, Microsoft will now be charging a fee to install any games, even those purchased on disc, on a second console. And what happens when one of THEIR consoles dies (which, given their history with Xbox 360, is more likely than not)?
I also lament the loss of backwards compatibility. I realize that consoles before PS2 traditionally did not have backwards compatibility (largely because very few consoles were built upon similar technology as their predecessors), but, in this age of digital downloads, the idea of buying something that I can only experience on a particular piece of gaming hardware somehow feels even more restricting. I would definitely not buy a movie if I knew it would be locked to a specific console (do you think I have ever bought a movie to own via PSN?). I can only cross fingers that download content that CAN move forward WILL move forward without additional fees. Note that both of my PS3s are backwards compatible with PS2, but the one that died was the only one that had the actual PS2 hardware for true backwards compatibility.
I do realize that there is always some benefit from having a larger number of people experience our products regardless of how they obtain them. Shows like BSG and Top Gear UK arguably would not have attracted nearly the audience they gained without a bump from torrents. Even the user base for Microsoft's key PC products would arguably be weaker without piracy. The more a customer likes an experience, the more likely they will pay for a better experience the next time around.
Historically I have worked on story-driven single player experiences which could easily be beaten within a single overnight rental. Developers spend two to three years (or more) creating such games with teams that have swelled to over 100 before outsourcing (which has sadly become a necessity), and have been forced to increase gameplay length and add multiplayer components just to reduce the chance that players might opt to not purchase the game at retail or via digital download. Quantity usually comes at the expense of quality (GTA anyone?). The future of such single player games is definitely being threatened.
On the other side of the coin, I have owned multiple systems for three console generations...and I absolutely hate the idea of a hardware manufacturer punishing its most loyal customers. Steam makes it very easy to install copies of the games I buy on PC...all I need to do is log in to Steam, install, and play. Sony currently restricts digital downloads to being installed on two PS3s (initially they allowed up to 5). I can understand why they did this because even I had used this policy to my friends' advantage (meaning I logged into their PS3 and installed my purchases). When they changed the policy, I had no problem unregistering my copies from their consoles, but this did introduce an issue when one of my two PS3's died and needed to be replaced. I had to contact Sony to unregister the installs from the dead console...and I think they are only willing to do this once. Hopefully they learn from such situations or they will lose customers. With Xbox One, Microsoft will now be charging a fee to install any games, even those purchased on disc, on a second console. And what happens when one of THEIR consoles dies (which, given their history with Xbox 360, is more likely than not)?
I also lament the loss of backwards compatibility. I realize that consoles before PS2 traditionally did not have backwards compatibility (largely because very few consoles were built upon similar technology as their predecessors), but, in this age of digital downloads, the idea of buying something that I can only experience on a particular piece of gaming hardware somehow feels even more restricting. I would definitely not buy a movie if I knew it would be locked to a specific console (do you think I have ever bought a movie to own via PSN?). I can only cross fingers that download content that CAN move forward WILL move forward without additional fees. Note that both of my PS3s are backwards compatible with PS2, but the one that died was the only one that had the actual PS2 hardware for true backwards compatibility.
I do realize that there is always some benefit from having a larger number of people experience our products regardless of how they obtain them. Shows like BSG and Top Gear UK arguably would not have attracted nearly the audience they gained without a bump from torrents. Even the user base for Microsoft's key PC products would arguably be weaker without piracy. The more a customer likes an experience, the more likely they will pay for a better experience the next time around.
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Hmm, well I sold some old SNES + GameCube games at a garage sale a few weeks ago, if that counts ;-)
NetViper said:
I have bought several.
I am sympathetic to the case of piracy, I used to game heavily in the late 90s and I watched many top notch small companies go under as piracy (vigorously defended by gamers as ethical) chewed through their margins. I am also sympathetic to rental revenue, no reason a good team of lawyers can't work out licensing deals with major rental firms (actually, surprised they haven't already). When it comes to used games though, you've lost me there.
There are plenty of industries that take a hit from used sales: movies, books and - one dear to our heart - cars. They have worked around the problem in ways that keep an active used marketplace going and I see no reason that the gaming industry should be different. Downloadable game content (DLC) is a great example of this and has worked wonders for the shooter market as players pay to access weapon skins and new maps. It also opens up "post-crunchtime" jobs for the gaming industry rather than the massive layoff cycle that would occur post release. World of Warcraft's subscription model supporting continuously updating content is another great example. Other options are moving towards lower overhead costs with more frequent release dates. ie. rather than dumping 5 million in to one game, spend $500k on ten games to maximize your release date revenue. There are options out there and other marketplaces have demonstrated them.
The xBox draconian model of trying to cut the used game market out entirely leaves a bitter taste. It is more of a bully solution than anything else.
Thats what it's going to come down to. A lot of people are pissed at the path they are going. PC gaming has always been superior but the cost to setup has always been more and difficult for the average user. Thats ware the Console hit its mark. (Plug and play) When you take away the Plug and play people will look for better options. I know of 20 Xbox members that I play online with every Wed night that will not be purchasing the new Xbox due to the route they are going. We are all going PC. A lot of people are doing the same from all the people talking on Live.
90% of my games I bought used.
Forza is the only title I want the week it comes out.
Everything else, I don't care if it's 6 months or a year old if it's 1/2 the price.
I have absolutely bought used games. Not because it was necessarily cheaper, but because stores stopped stocking new inventory. Do you know how hard it was to find Beyond Good and Evil less than 6 months after release? I had to do the same thing for WipeOut XL when mine was "lost". Used sales did provide a useful service. With Steam, stuff like that will never be hard to find again, until Steam fails. But there is no Steam for consoles, It would be nice, but I don't see Sony, MS or Nintendo ever doing it.
I love how Steam works, but have to wonder what will happen if it does ever fail (which, at the moment, certainly does not look likely). I especially love how they offer sales that sometimes make great titles available for prices that would beat most used game prices and, in some cases, rentals. I love how easy they make it to gift titles to friends. I somehow acquired a sizeable library of great titles on Steam even though I have only bought two or three titles through Steam (one of my graphics cards came with all of the Source games through Half Life 2...which certainly helped jump start my library on Steam). Some of the games I acquired on Steam came through Humble Bundles. Sony, MS, Nintendo wouldn't need to put Steam on their consoles if they simply adopted a similar business model, but the first manufacturer who puts Steam on their console is going to have a guaranteed audience (especially if multiplayer games can cross-play between console and PC). And then there is Origin. Everyone I know wishes Battlefield 3 was available through Steam.
Incidentally, I have rented very few games over my lifetime...when I did, it was more of a try before buy situation. The ability to download demos effectively killed any desire to do this. I have bought very few used games, but I have sold games in the past to get discounts towards new items (I sold my Super Nintendo and four games to get the original PlayStation at launch for $199). I stopped going to Gamestop when I saw how much of an impact they were having on the industry. I hate that Best Buy and Amazon joined them. The only way I could see us justifying a rental model is by doing what the movie studios once did...jack up the price on first time releases significantly so that ONLY rental companies would want to buy them. That would really suck for the serious gamer because, with movies, they could have at least seen the film for a relatively affordable price when it first ran in theaters.
Actually, I have bought very few used items period...never bought a used car, only a few used CDs, no used DVDs or Blu-ray discs.
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Interesting that you should say that, since Steam has reportedly been dabbling with the idea of launching a set top unit. With the current news floating around and the self destructive nature of M$, now may be the time for Steam to step out of the shadows? Not likely, but you have to admit that the market just became quite ripe.
As for the control of used game sales, I am just flabbergasted that this is even an allowable tactic. There is only one other business model that I know of where someone will sell you something and then tell you that you don't own it: the Federal Government. Even if you buy a house and pay it off (ie. IT'S YOURS!) the feds will continually make you pay taxes on it until the day you die. At which point, if you haven't sold or gifted it to someone else, they will take it from your cold, dead hands. :smile: It's never really yours folks!
"Microsoft has caved to the hordes of angry gamers who have been loudly complaining about its policies for used games and connectivity requirements for its upcoming Xbox One console. Microsoft has updated its Xbox One page to announce changes in its Digital Rights Management (DRM) policies. Users will no longer have to connect to the Internet every 24 hours to play games and restrictions on used games have been significantly eased. Now users will be required to connect to the web just once while setting up their Xbox and won’t be required to check in every 24 hours to play disc-based games. Microsoft also says that gamers can “trade-in, lend, resell, gift, and rent disc based games just like you do today” and that “there will be no limitations to using and sharing games, it will work just as it does today on Xbox 360.”
M$ PR management is taking a beating. How unbelievably stupid. It's almost as bad an automobile company that puts an ugly beak on their entire line up then tells their clients that they refuse to rethink their design language after the fan base disappears.
Come on, this is a japanese car forum. Of course PS4 is going to win. Xbox is like Vette/Viper
Ouch, it stings!
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