Help, shifting problems

[John Isenbarger]

Bought 2001 NSX from out of state Acura dealer month ago, only 30k miles. Received service records from dealer a week after I bought car and saw clutch had been warranty replaced at 11k and aftermarket replaced at 23k. Obviously owner abused??? Shifting to 1st and 2nd not quite right, felt notchy or felt that I could get in if I applied alot of pressure-which I didn't, and reverse totally locked out sometimes. Know to shift to 1 or 2 before going to reverse. Then couldn't shift into 1st at all. Have to shift to reverse before starting engine..

Took to nearby mechanic that used to work at Acura, he thought bent fork. Took to Acura and they want to replace entire clutch($4000).

Yesterday shifted perfect all day. Felt great. Got gas and mentioned to mechanic there. He thought master cylinder or slave bad. He said that days low temp made fluid thicker and that pushed plates further apart into correct position. He checked fluid and said it looked bad. I have no clue what it should look like. Fluid resevoir full, so don't think leak, no fluid on my epoxy grage floor.

No grinding sound at any time. Pedal travel feels consistent and smooth.

Any advice, suggestions, good words. Hydralics sounds like problem to me, but I really have no clue.

Been beating on Acrua dealer I bought from to cover repairs, but he wants to know what problem is first and so far, I just get conflicting answers.

Thanks, John

 

[NSXclear]

NSX transmission is known to be a bit notchy. I had the same shifting problems going into reverse. But after the GM cocktail, it all went away.

Change your transmission fluid. You can either go with the new formula with the white cap. People say that the new formula is much better than the old Acura transmission fluid.

or

go with GM Synchromesh transmission cocktail. Do a search here on prime and for "Synchromesh". Some people here believe that it might ended up wearing down your synchros in the long run, so do some research.

 

[sojusoulja]

shifts notchy and they want to replace the clutch? Umm...try putting in some GM synchromesh first and see if the notchiness goes away.

 

[Acura NsX Pilot]

Sometimes I have this problem also but what I do is just shift into second and slighty lift up on the clutch then clutch back down and shift into neutral and into first. The notchy feel goes away after the cars runs for a while .

 

[ffffanman]

How bout simple things first.
Change the fluid to the new Honda fluid. Such a new car, use the Honda stuff first.
You can do it yourself or get a dealer to do it.
I have done my own many times, just need a funnel with a plastic tube on it about 2 feet or so. There are many posts on the subject. Get the two new washers as well.
As stated, when cold, the transmissions are a little hard to shift until warmed up. Be gentle and smooth.
Thats a pretty new car, how many miles on it now?
I'm sure LarryB will show up shortly to post you some good advice.
Trev

 

[John Isenbarger]

Thanks for the info. Being a NOOB, I should have searched here first. You've already posted a ton about this, sorry for the rehash.

By the way, did a bit of testing on driveway. With pedal all the way to floor, sometimes it will creep forward in gear. Definitely moves with pedal on half inch from floor. Seems like there should be more distance from bottom before engagement?

So, based on what I've learned, linkage adjustment, fluid, master or slave cylinders seem to be the most likely causes/solutions.

Will update after taking into Acura dealer second time Monday. Anxious to hear why they didn't check the obvious areas first before claiming I needed $4000 clutch.

After this is resolved, I start searching here to learn about wheels.

By the way, this was my first post here.

Again, thanks, you guys are great!!!

 

[Larry Bastanza]

First thing to do is check your clutch master cylinder reservoir for low fluid.

The clutch should not grab right off the floor, they are known to have a high engagement point. Also how much "free play" do you have in the pedal? Check it with your hand.

BTW, I am not buying this "cool temp" thing with the brake fluid in the clutch, it just is not so.

LMK,
Regards,
LarryB

 

[John Isenbarger]

Fluid level full. About half inch free pedal movement before start to feel pressure. Pressure consistent through rest of pedal travel to floor. Clutch seems to be fully engaged about 1.5-2" from floor. Just wasted foot movement from there on up. thanks

 

[Larry Bastanza]

OK, do you know which clutch is in their?

Sounds like it is grabbing kind of low for a stock clutch. End play seems OK to me. The spec is 1-7mm (1/4 inch, but most are about 1/2 inch)

If this symptom truly "comes and goes" and the pedal "feels" exactly the same, I would think there is something wrong with the clutch. Maybe a broken disk spring or something like that. I am assuming the clutch was properly installed, but I cannot really say.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[John Isenbarger]

bought from an out of state Acura dealer, they told me it had an aftermarket clutch. I've been asking since before I bought car for mfgr of clutch. They claim the guy they bought it from won't return their phone calls. He was their client for the last 5 years, he bought this car from them. Dealer claimed to know the car extrememly well since they did all service except install of aftermarket clutch. Has about 6k miles on this clutch.

Assume now that owner really abused car and dealer knew it. Ad said car "meticulously kept" and both sales man and sales manager told me it was mechanically excellent. Got service records(after I bought car) and found current clutch is third in 30k miles(original, OEM replacement, aftermarket). Original was replace under warranty at ~12k, aftermarket ~23k+.

Appointment at local Acura to check again. First time I took it to them I doubt if they even checked fluid, cylinders or linkage.

Not real happy!

 

[ffffanman]

This brings up a question I've been kicking around, maybe Larry can chime in.
It seems some cars eat clutches faster than others.
Other than the abuse issue or slipping the clutch issue, is there possiblely another reason for fast clutch wear?
I'm thinking about the special way that our two piece clutches must be aligned and installed. Can the clutch be installed, aligned and still maybe out of spec or something else.
Just wondering myself as it appears my vehicle likes to wear the clutch from the history I can see. Mine is 91.
Trev

 

[Larry Bastanza]

From my perspective, "Some Drivers eat clutches faster then others". Clutch abuse comes in many forms, and some folks who insist on a nice smooth take off, as an example, can wear a clutch on no time.

Things like never milking the clutch and rev matching on downshifts make them last a very long time.

If an NSX clutch is initialized properly from the get go, there is no possibility of it coming out of adjustment, assuming the thing is in there and bolted down correctly to spec, and is in full working order.

Most rebuilds I have seen are pretty darn good too, like Centerforce, ACT, etc.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[nsxot1c]

From my perspective, "Some Drivers eat clutches faster then others". Clutch abuse comes in many forms, and some folks who insist on a nice smooth take off, as an example, can wear a clutch on no time.

Things like never milking the clutch and rev matching on downshifts make them last a very long time.

If an NSX clutch is initialized properly from the get go, there is no possibility of it coming out of adjustment, assuming the thing is in there and bolted down correctly to spec, and is in full working order.

Most rebuilds I have seen are pretty darn good too, like Centerforce, ACT, etc.

HTH,
LarryB

AGREED!!! :smile:

My clutch has held up VERY well since you did it nearly 3+? Years ago Larry. I assume it will need another in due time, but I drive my car somewhat hard and there are ZERO signs of any slippage anywhere.
I do also rev match downshifts and def don't milk it tho :smile:

 

[OLDMNSX]

Bought 2001 NSX >>>>>>>>>>>>>>Thanks, John

Guys, We need to remember that we are talking about an NA2 here. 6-Speed......Single Disk Clutch.......aftermarket clutch.........no initialization.

I agree on changing the trans fluid. I am currently running the new Acura MTL. I had the GM Syncromesh mixture in before. I couldn't tell any difference between the two fluids. The Acura fluid is about $5 per Qt and the GM is about $8.

I would flush the clutch fluid. When I did mine it made the clutch pedal feel a lot smoother. Check for any leaks, I doubt that you will find any, but look.

If the problem still exists after doing these things it sounds like possibly a poor quality aftermarket clutch/possible transmission abuse. There is a reason why a lot of people go with aftermarket clutches, THEY ARE CHEAPER, and sometimes in more ways than one.

Brad

 

[John Isenbarger]

Just got back from local Acura. Everything looked fine, until they took panel off of bottom edge of clutch-mechanic pointed out the two thin pieces(fingers) between the two thick plates. The two fingers were warped apart and when pedal pushed, they stayed against one of the thicker plates. Said the fingers should be flat against each other and stay mid way between the two thicker plates. Said very overheated and abused by prior owner. Replacing clutch with OEM. Ouch! I don't intend to eat $4000 on a car I just bought.

Now to see what out of state Acura dealer that sold me car will do. Will keep all advised. Let me know if you have any advice.

Thanks,

 

[OLDMNSX]

John, Sorry to hear this about your clutch. Would the service manager or mechanic be willing to talk to the people at the dealership where you purchased your car? Having this "Third Party" stating the condition of the clutch may be of benefit to your case.

I would sure try to get some commitment out of the selling dealer before you commit to having the work done. Did you get any written warrantee when you purchased the car?

Good Luck
Brad

 

[RON98]

should not cost 4000$.

i would shop around for an nsx shop that can get you done much cheaper

good luck

 

[John Isenbarger]

Well, final resolution. Acura dealer I bought from agreed to pay for parts and local Acura is reduce labor to me. If you live in the Kansas City area, totally recommend Superior Acura, Dave Peterson is service manger. Great guy, great service. Thank you all for info and advice.

 

[ffffanman]

Please post photos of that clutch when its out.
I would love to see your photos compared to mine on this thread.
Thanks so much.
Then send the old one down to Sos to Chris.
Thats if he wants it for future considerations.
Trev
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=97307

 

[OLDMNSX]

Looking forward to the final report.

Brad

 

[John Isenbarger]

Cleaned up and inspected old clutch at shop. Sorry, didn't get pictures. Acura/NSX mechanic spent alot of time with me. It was fried. Major heat discoloration. One side of friction disk worn down to rivets. Thin pairs between friction disk plates were all warped/bent. All pairs were against one plate or other, some warped so bad they were against both at same time. None were parallel away from both plates. 4-6 pins, with little brass? cubes on the ends where bent slightly, not even spacing.

Mechanic said it was Comptech clutch and had been abused really bad.

I almost slammed my foot thru floorboard, new clutch pressure was sooo much lighter. Shifts smooth and clean.

Now to start the hunt for new wheels and tires.

Thanks to all.

 

[Todd McKelvie]

Guys,

Here is my clutch story!

I was having a ton of problems with my clutch. It was notchy, sometimes it would grind a little going into 2nd and/or 3rd and was hard to get into gear on down shifts. It was also hard to get a rhythm when shifting. it seemed like the shifting points were always changing.

I have had 2 clutches installed and removed and still it didn't fix the problem (way more to this story, but won't go into it).

The master cylinder was NOT leaking. I said WTF, change the master cylinder... FIXED! Now is shifts like butter.

The mechanic figures an inner seal got damaged or something. All I know is I am back in love with my NSX.

My 2002 only has 34k miles on it. I bet it never needed a clutch replacement in the first place. The easiest way to describe what the mechanic and I figure was going on is that the master cylinder was catching and not allowing the clutch to fully engage or disengage. So, maybe 10% movement was getting lost in both directions. This would describe the grind AND the clutch slippage smell.

My mechanic knows NSX's and he said that he has never seen anything like this. I watched him check the master cylinder 3 different times and NEVER found a leak.

I wonder how many other clutches have been replaced when the problem was the master cylinder?????

I have heard other 2002 and newer owners complaining of shifting issues similar to the ones I was experiencing.

Hope this helps solve some problems and saves you some cash! Can always use extra cash for more mods!!!

 

[OLDMNSX]

The master cylinder was NOT leaking. I said WTF, change the master cylinder... FIXED! Now is shifts like butter.

I wonder how many other clutches have been replaced when the problem was the master cylinder?????

I have heard other 2002 and newer owners complaining of shifting issues similar to the ones I was experiencing.

Hope this helps solve some problems and saves you some cash! Can always use extra cash for more mods!!!

Todd, Thanks for the post. Glad the two of you are back to sleeping together. I hate it when I have to sleep in the garage.

I wonder if Acura changed vendors for master cylinders for the later cars? There may be a quality issue with these later ones.

Brad

 

[HTN]

Thanks... I am experiencing something similiar to what you described. Not all the time though...very few.
Would this be covered under warranty since I have another 10K left before it runs out?

 

[nsxtcy85]

Guys,

Here is my clutch story!

I was having a ton of problems with my clutch. It was notchy, sometimes it would grind a little going into 2nd and/or 3rd and was hard to get into gear on down shifts. It was also hard to get a rhythm when shifting. it seemed like the shifting points were always changing.

I have had 2 clutches installed and removed and still it didn't fix the problem (way more to this story, but won't go into it).

The master cylinder was NOT leaking. I said WTF, change the master cylinder... FIXED! Now is shifts like butter.

The mechanic figures an inner seal got damaged or something. All I know is I am back in love with my NSX.

My 2002 only has 34k miles on it. I bet it never needed a clutch replacement in the first place. The easiest way to describe what the mechanic and I figure was going on is that the master cylinder was catching and not allowing the clutch to fully engage or disengage. So, maybe 10% movement was getting lost in both directions. This would describe the grind AND the clutch slippage smell.

My mechanic knows NSX's and he said that he has never seen anything like this. I watched him check the master cylinder 3 different times and NEVER found a leak.

I wonder how many other clutches have been replaced when the problem was the master cylinder?????

I have heard other 2002 and newer owners complaining of shifting issues similar to the ones I was experiencing.

Hope this helps solve some problems and saves you some cash! Can always use extra cash for more mods!!!

The master cylinder had an internal leak. Releasing pressure from the slave cylinder. releasing presure on the fork and pulling the TOB off the pressure plate diaphram. Meanwhile your disk was engaging the input shaft and making it harder for the sychro's to lock onto the already spinning dogteeth.