Lotus is not Honda. Lotus is a small niche company that produces a few dozen cars a month. Yes, the lack of a running car at goodwood is a disappointment but I don't think Ted Klause's job is a farse. He did come to NSXPO. You guys just have to be patient. I'm not letting go of my place inline yet.
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How about some new NSX info as of 3/16/14?
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I'm with Dave and keeping my place in line for the new NSX.
Somewhere closeted away are dozen's (hundred's?) of Honda engineers working away on a new V6 turbocharged F1 engine with the mission to return Honda to the forefront of engine design and performance.
Elsewhere Ted Klaus and company are doing their part to deliver a new NSX to help restore the image of Honda as a builder of performance cars.
I can only imagine the complexity of doing a new NSX from a clean sheet of paper, but possibly those who sell Honda short are ignoring a lot of history, and also ignoring what Honda achieved with the first NSX.
Certainly the marketplace is much more competitive today than in the late 90's when the NSX first came out but I doubt Honda is unaware of how high the bar is.
I'm certain Honda knows the importance of the new NSX in the overall repositioning of the company and I'd expect they launch the car when they are ready and not before.
Will there be delays? Possibly/probably.
Will the car have universal appeal. Not a chance.
Will there be critics. Guaranteed.
Will it be the best car Honda is capable of building when it arrives? Absolutely!
Somewhere closeted away are dozen's (hundred's?) of Honda engineers working away on a new V6 turbocharged F1 engine with the mission to return Honda to the forefront of engine design and performance.
Elsewhere Ted Klaus and company are doing their part to deliver a new NSX to help restore the image of Honda as a builder of performance cars.
I can only imagine the complexity of doing a new NSX from a clean sheet of paper, but possibly those who sell Honda short are ignoring a lot of history, and also ignoring what Honda achieved with the first NSX.
Certainly the marketplace is much more competitive today than in the late 90's when the NSX first came out but I doubt Honda is unaware of how high the bar is.
I'm certain Honda knows the importance of the new NSX in the overall repositioning of the company and I'd expect they launch the car when they are ready and not before.
Will there be delays? Possibly/probably.
Will the car have universal appeal. Not a chance.
Will there be critics. Guaranteed.
Will it be the best car Honda is capable of building when it arrives? Absolutely!
It's not all that hard to make a spectacular car... One that will blow away all the competition. One that will be technologically more advanced than anything else in its class. All this requires only one thing: a willingness to lose a lot of money on each one.
If you achieve 75% of a McLaren but sell it for 50% of the price, you have won. Nothing in that class will touch it.
If you achieve 75% of a McLaren but sell it for 50% of the price, you have won. Nothing in that class will touch it.
You really think it will blow everything out of the water? ... I doubt that, since Mr. K stated it would be competitive ... When did he say it was going to have mind blowing performance to blow everything away?
I must have missed that.
btw, I had a McLaren and their customer service was severely lacking; I don't want 75% of that !
I must have missed that.
btw, I had a McLaren and their customer service was severely lacking; I don't want 75% of that !
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He wasn't saying that's what the NSX will be, he was just saying that the way to get there is to be willing to lose a lot of money on each one, and Honda is not in the business of losing money
"competitive" is setting the bar a little low, isn't it? The new car has to live up to the reputation of a car that became a bit legendary and was far more than just competitive. I think unless it is a real gem in its class it will be a disappointment.
Ted Klaus told us they were benchmarking the 458 as the "bar" but I don't think they expect any Ferrari customers to buy an NSX nor do I believe the NSX will have 458 performance levels.
But Ted and Co will know where the NSX rates against the 458 for handling, braking etc.
I really believe Porsche and Nissan are the target marques for the NSX.
All have 6 cylinders and Porsche/Nissan have a large market share to cut into.
If we ended up with GT3 comparable numbers at a lesser initial price I'd be happy.
But Ted and Co will know where the NSX rates against the 458 for handling, braking etc.
I really believe Porsche and Nissan are the target marques for the NSX.
All have 6 cylinders and Porsche/Nissan have a large market share to cut into.
If we ended up with GT3 comparable numbers at a lesser initial price I'd be happy.
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BizJournals
The newly designed Acura TLX will arrive at dealerships in August, so what’s next for the brand?
When I interviewed Mike Accavitti, senior vice president and Acura general manager, this week about the newest car in the luxury lineup of Honda Motor Co. (NYSE:HMC), we also chatted about the brand's other vehicles. Here's what I learned:
NSX
The most high-profile is the NSX supercar, which will be built at a specialized plant in Marysville, and is expected to debut next year.
“This is a project that any auto engineer would give anything to participate in,” Accavitti said. “It’s the ultimate car guy project.”
Accavitti wouldn’t say much about it other than the project progressing. However, the NSX will be key for the brand, not because of sales volume, which likely wlll be low, but because of its attention-grabbing profile.
“It’s a halo car,” he said. “If you can get people to talk and look at your brand with that aspiration, we can leverage that. That’s the best that Acura can bring.”
ILX
With the redesigned RLX full-size sedan launched last year and the TLX midsize coming out this year, the focus turns to Acura's entry-level ILX, which has been panned in some quarters of the trade press.
“It’s doing the job it was designed to do, attract younger buyers,” Accavitti said, adding that Acura is getting a bigger share of the under-35 market than it was before.
But ILX hasn’t taken off in a way the company had hoped, falling short of sales projections since its 2012 launch. Some 8,357 ILXs were sold in the 1st half of 2014, down 22% from a year earlier. Accavitti wouldn’t say when the 2nd generation ILX is coming, but considering the sales performance, the new Acura leadership structure and focus, and the fact that all other Acuras have had recent redesigns, the typical 5- to 6-year lifespan of the company's car generations may be shortened.
“We’re paying attention to who’s not buying,” he said. “We had them in the dealership, but they didn’t buy. We’ll be addressing those issues spot on.”
Matt DeLorenzo, Kelley Blue Book managing editor of news, thinks the ILX is too much like the Honda Civic, a vehicle with a far small sticker price. Stronger powertrains are likely for the car, as are more luxury cues in general. That’s what will be seen on the TLX, which is a new Acura model combining and building on aspects of the old TL and TSX. Accavitti said the TLX is indicative of where the brand wants to take its streamlined sedan lineup.
SUVs
Accavitti said the company remains confident about the light truck side of its business. The MDX was re-launched last year and remains on a hot streak. Honda declared it the best-selling 3-row luxury sport-utility vehicle of all time with 692,710 sales since 2002.
The smaller East Liberty-made RDX crossover posted sales increases every month since its latest generation came out in 2012. That streak ended in June with sales down for the 1st time. Accavitti said there were short-term inventory issues but no concerns about the vehicle.
The newly designed Acura TLX will arrive at dealerships in August, so what’s next for the brand?
When I interviewed Mike Accavitti, senior vice president and Acura general manager, this week about the newest car in the luxury lineup of Honda Motor Co. (NYSE:HMC), we also chatted about the brand's other vehicles. Here's what I learned:
NSX
The most high-profile is the NSX supercar, which will be built at a specialized plant in Marysville, and is expected to debut next year.
“This is a project that any auto engineer would give anything to participate in,” Accavitti said. “It’s the ultimate car guy project.”
Accavitti wouldn’t say much about it other than the project progressing. However, the NSX will be key for the brand, not because of sales volume, which likely wlll be low, but because of its attention-grabbing profile.
“It’s a halo car,” he said. “If you can get people to talk and look at your brand with that aspiration, we can leverage that. That’s the best that Acura can bring.”
ILX
With the redesigned RLX full-size sedan launched last year and the TLX midsize coming out this year, the focus turns to Acura's entry-level ILX, which has been panned in some quarters of the trade press.
“It’s doing the job it was designed to do, attract younger buyers,” Accavitti said, adding that Acura is getting a bigger share of the under-35 market than it was before.
But ILX hasn’t taken off in a way the company had hoped, falling short of sales projections since its 2012 launch. Some 8,357 ILXs were sold in the 1st half of 2014, down 22% from a year earlier. Accavitti wouldn’t say when the 2nd generation ILX is coming, but considering the sales performance, the new Acura leadership structure and focus, and the fact that all other Acuras have had recent redesigns, the typical 5- to 6-year lifespan of the company's car generations may be shortened.
“We’re paying attention to who’s not buying,” he said. “We had them in the dealership, but they didn’t buy. We’ll be addressing those issues spot on.”
Matt DeLorenzo, Kelley Blue Book managing editor of news, thinks the ILX is too much like the Honda Civic, a vehicle with a far small sticker price. Stronger powertrains are likely for the car, as are more luxury cues in general. That’s what will be seen on the TLX, which is a new Acura model combining and building on aspects of the old TL and TSX. Accavitti said the TLX is indicative of where the brand wants to take its streamlined sedan lineup.
SUVs
Accavitti said the company remains confident about the light truck side of its business. The MDX was re-launched last year and remains on a hot streak. Honda declared it the best-selling 3-row luxury sport-utility vehicle of all time with 692,710 sales since 2002.
The smaller East Liberty-made RDX crossover posted sales increases every month since its latest generation came out in 2012. That streak ended in June with sales down for the 1st time. Accavitti said there were short-term inventory issues but no concerns about the vehicle.
Patient!?!
We are just a few months from 2015 and it doesn't augur well ...
At this rate Honda will begin to sell the 2015 NSX in 2016 as a primeur!!!
I can already smell the unmistakable odour of FAIL from Honda ...
I hope you a benchmarking the P1 for performance and the 12C for price .... :wink:
I was getting my 2014 RLX serviced today and was talking with the sales manager. Right now Acura has a big problem on their hand, there is no inventory for new cars on the lots. The TLX is two months behind, and they've stopped production of the RLX until the SH-AWD version comes out. The lot was empty and there were no customers in the showroom. The manager also said they don't know when the NSX is going to be coming to the showroom. It sounds like they know as much as we do. I have the same conversation each time I'm at the dealership and it always ends the same way. "We all have to wait and see what happens." This rhetoric has been going on for 10+ years and is starting to sound like a broken record.
Patient!?!
We are just a few months from 2015 and it doesn't augur well ...
At this rate Honda will begin to sell the 2015 NSX in 2016 as a primeur!!!
I can already smell the unmistakable odour of FAIL from Honda ...
2015, 2016, 2017.... what's the difference... LOL... yeah they are running out of time. But I have an NSX I am enjoying now so its ok.
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No more like 650S performance for 150K. That's a good goal. LOL. I am sure someone at Acura is reading my low expectations and having a good laugh right now.
Im sorry but your thoughts of what is going on behind the scenes thinking that Honda will out of nowhere produce a car anywhere close to what is out there with no real supercar development for a quarter of a century are delusional.
Seriously when Honda produced NXS v1 it was the benchmark now the rest of the market has 25yrs of continual development under its belt do you really think the 911 would be still a class leader if it didn't have 25 yrs of development thrown at it.
Honda and the very few faithful are kidding themselves if they think they can just pop back in with a class leading car.
Just look at what has been produced in the last 18-24mths total mind blowing cars not one of them came from obscurity but from evolution.
I've never thought of myself as delusional but certainly hopeful.
Let's reflect a minute on our current NSX's.
It sounds like you would have been saying before the NSX was launched that there was no way Honda could possibly produce a car to compete with the Ferrari's and Porsches of the day.
They had neither history nor experience to do such a thing.
However they did and it was good enough to raise the bar for all the long term marques like Porsche.
And it came from obscurity.
Honda while not offering a two seat mid-engined car for some time has been racing continuously for the last 25 years. They have successfully powered Indycar for some time now and their ALMS cars were winners too.
With their return to F1 I'd have to say they would not only be current but in fact in a leading engine developer.
So perhaps you are really saying Honda has not built a mid-engined road going chassis for some time.
And so is your point is that they are out of date on handling, braking, aerodynamics etc?
What about the HSC concept and the test mules at the Nurburgring in recent history?
Do you think Honda engineers would be learning in their GT series racing cars for example about modern braking, handling etc?
They do make cars everyday, have test tracks, chassis testing labs and so on so surely they are not without knowledge of suspension dynamics?
I'd also make the assumption that they have bought and dismantled 458's, Lamborghini's, Porsches etc. so see what makes them tick.
Are you saying Honda engineers lack the ability to see what their competitors are doing and can't figure out how to improve on it?
So perhaps it really comes down to whether Honda's choice of driveline will be leading edge or not.
So far it looks like its right in there with Porsche Ferrari and McLaren.
My point is that in today's car world you don't need to be continuously making mid-engined 2 seaters to become a factor in that market segment or any segment for that matter.
Did anyone see the Korean marques coming out with front engine rear drive V8 cars five years ago?
And with Lotus assistance on handling?
Would you have been saying the Koreans couldn't make a decent car never mind a sedan competitive with European marques?
They too came out of obscurity.
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Wait…Honda produced a "benchmark" car out of having never produced a car like this but now, having literally thousands of engineers with race engine and drivetrain experience, can't produce a class leading sports car?
And other companies, having produced in the last 18-24 months mind blowing cars, means that Honda can not?
C'mon, that isn't even logical. smh.
And other companies, having produced in the last 18-24 months mind blowing cars, means that Honda can not?
C'mon, that isn't even logical. smh.
+1 guys.
Honda has magnificent capabilities, and to prove this point, it doesn't take time for them to build from a white sheet of paper anything they want, an Indy V8 engine, a F1 engine etc.
BUT they do not behave like this when it comes time to produce that kind of performance for their road cars ...
They are always on the f... brake pedal. Annoying because we all know that Honda can beat the best of the industry BUT they seem happy to wallow in a losing defeatist attitude.
Very annoying. Just think about someone you know who has lot of potential but does not achieve it ...
While I have no doubt that the engineers at honda are capable of one upping just about anybody, the real question is if the NSX will be a car designed freely by engineers or if marketing is getting in their way and lowering the bar. Based on the beak I too have concerns about how much of a free hand their engineers are being given.
Ted clearly stated that the goal was to use "regular" parts to build this new car to 458 like performance in such a way to keep price down....so most likely the sum will be greater than the individual components....I don't think unobtanium will be used at all if you catch my drift.
The "bar" is usually set by the leading car in the market segment such as the 458 or GT3 etc. not by internal marketing staff.
The internal process leading up to a new product normally starts with senior executives establishing the goals of the new car which would include where that car should measure against the existing (and anticipated) benchmarks in the market segment.
Those goals would usually include design, performance, price, and value amongst others.
Then an enormous amount of work by executives, team leaders, designers, engineers, cost accountants, and marketers all pushing, pulling, insisting and compromising, to build a car that reaches the company's goals. No one part of the team will normally have a free hand on anything but there will be decision makers all along the way fixing each aspect of the car as it evolves.
Ted Klaus said he is well aware of the controversial "beak" aspect" of the design but he did mention an enormous amount of work has gone on with frontal airflow, cooling, and aerodynamics on the nose area in addition to the "look" and the current design was a product of all that. As Doc mentions above, Honda will try to use as much as they can from the current corporate parts bin to keep costs down, and offer value for money. Smart technique which I understand Lamborghini does with the VW parts bin.
So I don't think your comment about marketers lowering bars and engineers not having a free hand is necessarily right.
Ferrari has set the "bar" and all the Honda engineers will likely get as much of a free hand as possible within the overall goals.
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The answer to most of your questions is YES
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What JD said
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To respond to doc & JD, I believe it was always a given that Honda would utilize components from their parts bin. Honestly, why develop totally new door actuators, keyless entry, window regulators, etc when you can simply pull them from the current parts bin. Our current NSX's have a number of components shared with other Hondas. I expect that trend will continue with the upcoming NSX v2. Though, ideally I would like the drivetrain, suspension and braking system to be unique to the NSX v2 and likely will.
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Here is a new vid with the new NSX testing.......(Supra at 1:05............LOL) <iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/FfB5eHO1nq4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
about damn time!
Oh, and it has a brake light out.
Oh, and it has a brake light out.
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