how low will the NSX depreciate till? when will it stop?

[BostonNSX]

its getting cheaper and cheaper.. wondering when will it stop and around how much would it stop.

can someone put a end to depreciate it?

------------------
the art of chasing down my friend's white 3000gt at com. ave


NSXCA # 1690 "Sabrina"

 

[nsxtasy]

What are you talking about?

Prices on '91 and '92 NSXs have hardly changed for the past four to five years.

 

[ItsBettrThatWay]

hopefully they drop another 10k, maybe I can afford one then =)

 

[Joel]

The furthest price range we can get away from that of the ricer's budget, the better.

When the time comes when they can afford it, that's the day I will let it go.

 

[bboxer]

Just a few weeks ago, I said that no 91-92 is worth more than $30K. I was assaulted by people who are planning their retirement on the value of their NSX. I would like to revise my opinion, if I may: I think a 91 NSX would have to be exceptionally attractive to get anywhere near a $30K sale. There are some real good 94's close to $30K and a even few 96's BELOW $40K. There is no doubt in my mind that the people now who want a used NSX are really stretching their budget and pulling the prices down in the process. To say nothing that the sport car market in the US has nearly DOUBLED in the last 3 months, mainly with the introduction of the Z. IT came 200 units short,in October, of beating the Corvette in sales for the number 1 spot, and that was because of the ports shutdown. November will see the Z in the number one spot for sport car sale. And THAT is affecting the market big time. You should see what's happening to the used S2K market !

[This message has been edited by bboxer (edited 14 November 2002).]

 

[Lud]

Well you have stated your opinion, but the fact is that there are still people paying more than $30k for nice '91 and '92 cars. As the old saying goes, it's worth what people are willing to pay. That is what defines the market price.

If I said I won't pay a penny more than $75k for a Ferrari 360, does that mean it's only worth $75k?

 

[nsxtasy]

It is still extremely unusual to find an "A" category (as defined in the FAQ here) NSX for under $30K - just as it was four to five years ago. Just ask those who have been looking recently, such as NetViper. Their experiences disprove bboxer's wild claims.

Sure, you can find an NSX that sells for less, now as then. But it's likely to be a car in one of the lower categories in the table - in so-so condition, and/or skipped scheduled maintenance such as the timing belt and water pump replacement, and/or have very high miles, and/or have an automatic transmission, and/or have other traits that make it less than desirable. In fact, the table in the FAQ supports the prices bboxer quotes, but only for cars in the "D" and "F" categories. These are not "real good" cars by any stretch of the imagination.

Fair market prices show what buyers and sellers can typically expect in the market. You can occasionally find a buyer or seller who needs to close a sale quickly, or some other unusual circumstances, that result in an exception to the fair market price. For example, I have a friend who posted his "A" '91 NSX for sale for $35K obo and he received several offers of $35K and one for $37K. But the whole idea behind a fair market price takes into account what someone can expect with a reasonably wide search and takes variations in condition into account. Both Lud and I speak with owners all the time, potential buyers as well as sellers, and we stay in touch with what cars are really selling for. Despite bboxer's ridiculous and snide assertion regarding ulterior motives

, neither of us has any plans to sell our NSX and so have no reason to influence the market in any reason (which we couldn't do even if we wanted to). Those who feel that the estimates in the FAQ are unreasonable are welcome to try to buy or sell cars at prices more favorable than those shown there. My opinion is that they will have difficulty doing so.

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 14 November 2002).]

 

[Zanardi 50]

Originally posted by Joel:
The furthest price range we can get away from that of the ricer's budget, the better.

When the time comes when they can afford it, that's the day I will let it go.

I tend to agree with you on this. Let's hope the earlier model NSX's do't dip any lower than $30k ever.

 

[tewills]

I did a lot of research before I bought mine, and what I found is that the crappiest 91's went for mid twenties over the past 4 years or so. I think they may have bottomed out at 20K for clean titles. I saw a 91 sell for 26K with 150k miles. I dunno...but it seems like if you get into a 95 or older for less than 35K, you can pretty much drive it for free until you sell it for close to what you bought it for.

 

[Joel]

Originally posted by tewills:
I dunno...but it seems like if you get into a 95 or older for less than 35K, you can pretty much drive it for free until you sell it for close to what you bought it for.

Let's hope so.

Two things that might affect the pricing of NSX's however:

1. The release of a NEW, updated NSX design

2. The decision to discontinue production of the NSX altogether.

I'm no market analyst, but I'm thinking it will depreciate further and appreciate somewhat respectively.

 

[TigerNSX]

I am a bit confused about the whole argument.

Suppose that the price of 00+ NSXs drops down to mid to low $50k sometime in the future. This will push the price of 97-99 NSXs to mid to high $40k. This will then push the price of 95-96 NSXs to low to mid $40k.

Analogously, if this happens continuously so that the price of 00+ drops down to low $50k or high $40k, the price of 95-96 will eventually become mid $30k.

What would be the price of 91-93, then?

What I am confused is whether it will take substantial amount of time for newer NSXs to depreciate so that the price of 91-93 will not change for a long time?

Or will the price of "AAA" quality 91-93 NSXs <B> never </B> go down below $25k? Does this mean, in return, that the price of "AAA" quality 95-96 will <B> never </B> go below $30-$35k, and so on?

I am just confused about exotic car pricing...

 

[Mike O]

bboxer,

I have to disagree with you about pricing. I have a '91 NSX with 22,000 miles (that's almost as nice as my 5000 mile '02 Boxster S) that I have someone begging me to sell him...and he's offered me $40,000 for the car.

Now maybe my case is a case of two fools who met (one fool for offering that much, and the other fool for not taking it), but I really think I'd be hard pressed to find as nice a car as mine anytime anywhere (like I said, it's damn near as nice as my new Boxster S, and it's never even so much as been in the rain). My car has a set of Antera 309 wheels and new S03's, a Taitec GT Lightweight exhaust, tinted windows, and has all the services up to date (30k already done, as is the timing belt), etc.

If you personally can find me a comparable car to mine with all the options I have, and all the services up to date, that's never been in the rain, for the $30k you say that '91's are worth, I'll gladly sell this person my car @$40,000 and will buy the car you find me @$30,000, and will gladly pay you a $2000 finder's fee in cash and will treat you to the nicest dinner in town.

Let me know when you find such a car...

 

[wilsonp]

Originally posted by Tiger740:
I am a bit confused about the whole argument.

Or will the price of "AAA" quality 91-93 NSXs <B> never </B> go down below $25k? Does this mean, in return, that the price of "AAA" quality 95-96 will <B> never </B> go below $30-$35k, and so on?

I am just confused about exotic car pricing...

I think production numbers is what is being overlooked...

there were 4433 made in 91 and 92 - and 2988 made from 93 to 98. Even assuming the 200 or so a year held for 99 - 02, that's only 3788.

It doesn't matter how cheap a 96 is if it isn't available. I think demand will keep the price up even as they get older...

 

[huckster]

bboxer, now you know i like you and we've done business in the past. thanks again for the tubi. what is going on with your opinion that used nsx's are overpriced?

91's, ostensibly the most depreciated of any year, really are going for high twenties to mid thirties. are you saying they arent??? and whats up with the sarcasm on this issue? I'm definately not 'retiring' on my nsx 'investment'. I bought it as an expendable, which all vehicles are at the end of the day.

since we have so much data showing nsx's selling in my above stated range, i can only conclude that you are saying they arent really 'worth' that price.

Now that seems a little irritating, since im a customer of yours who bought an expensive exhaust from you. Your tubi's are definately high dollar, and I wouldnt say that they are not worth it anymore than I would say that all those owners out there paid more than what their cars are worth, considering that everyone continues to buy and sell in that price range. Just like you continue to sell tubis at 1700$ a pop, and in no small part in thanks to owners like me who vouch for the 'worth' of your very expensive exhaust.

in short, either post data of recent sells proving your point of the 'new' lower value of older nsx's, or quit saying 'theyre not worth it'. It is extrodinarily 'bad business' to post that our nsx's are overpriced when you are selling overpriced exhausts for those very same cars. Prove your opinion or shut up.

signed, your customer

 

[Mike O]

To further disprove bboxer's contention that a '91 NSX must be extremely nice to even bring $30,000, I offer the following:

A completely stock, silver '91 with 17,000 miles just sold on Ebay for $35,100. If you look through the bid history, you'll see that Naples Motorsports bid $35,000 on this very same car. As everyone knows, they are a dealer who plans on reselling the car for more $$$ than they pay. Not only were they willing to pay $35,000for the car, but they would also have to pay to ship it back to their dealership, and would then try to make money on top of their investment.

Just one example of how bboxer's completely wrong...

(By the way, the Ebay item # was 1872129544)

[This message has been edited by Mike O (edited 15 November 2002).]

 

[TigerNSX]

From an economist's point of view (I am an economist), I believe that it is also interesting to look at asymmetric structure of information about NSX.

In other words, people who own NSX and do not know the value of their cars will set their selling price at the book value regardless of the actual value (that is what NSX enthusiats or people who know NSX will sell/buy at) of the car.

For instance, I found 3 cases where the owners of mint condtion, all clean title GQ, 91 NSXs (one with 8,000 miles, the other one with 10,000 miles, and another one with 16,000 miles) sold their NSXs for $28k and $27k, $24k, respectively (all sold in a day or two since they posted). When I talked to them on the phone, they obviously had no idea how much their NSXs were worth (in fact, they were quite happy with the money that they got), and they priced their cars based on the book value.

These are probably extreme and rare cases, but I won't be surprised that there are many NSX owners who did not truly know the value of their car. These examples may provide wrong impressions to potential buyers (who believe that mint 91 NSXs are worth no more than $25K).

 

[huckster]

good point. you can always sell really quick if youre underpriced. yikes, where we these sellers when i was buying??

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by huckster:
you can always sell really quick if youre underpriced.

And you can always buy really quick if you're willing to overpay. Which is why you may find "outlyer" data points in either direction.

However, a fair market price for a car fitting a particular description is one which a buyer or seller, in a private sale, should be able to achieve (or close to it) within a reasonable amount of time.

And Mike O really proves this point, by pointing out that there's often a market opportunity to prove or disprove a claimed fair market price, by using it to profit on two trades, one of them at that claimed price. In the financial markets, there are people who actually use this concept, which is called "arbitrage".

 

[Autophile]

I am a newbie to the world of NSX values. But as a recent buyer, my opinion might be of interest here. When shopping for an NSX, my impression was that all of the earlier model NSX's (<95 yr) are *essentially* the same. In effect, assuming all TSB issues have been fixed or were N/A and the car has been well maintained, there is no difference in the quality, value, or appearance of any of the same generation NSX's. The cars have been remarkably unchanged throughout it's production, and thus the year is not really an issue. The only value factors to me are mileage and noticeable extent of wear.

I chose to buy a 91 because of the particular ownership history, color options, and low mileage on the car. But really, NSX's are not like, for example, early Vette's, where every year was different and thus fetch different prices.

In my opinion, future NSX values will rarely go lower than $30k for well-cared-for examples, and will only increase in value as history shows what truly amazing cars these are.

 

[Vytas]

In the last two years, I've had four offers on my '91 silver/black for nearly $40K and turned them all down. It's fully converted to a "Honda" NSX with genuine Honda parts, polished engine parts, perfect '98 OEM wheels along with a few little extras. Has 45K miles on it and is in superb condition with a clean original nose (barely any rock chips to speak of) with everything working perfectly. I was stoked to have won the Best Maintained NSX award at NSXPO 99! The car means a lot to me and it would be hard to let go of since finding another silver in perfect condition with no issues would be very difficult (only 467 imported from 91-93). It took me over six months to find mine. I still wouldn't look at anything less than $38K if I had to part with it.

 

[Tom Larkins]

Funny this topic would show up again after a winter in hibernation. Had my car in for TB/WP service at one of the local Acura stores today. Sales manager said he has noticed demand is starting to increase for the model. Effectively most 02's are all gone and 03's may be sold out before fall and the older models have been holding values very well. He had a yellow 03 on the floor and that was it for the year. Also mentioned a silver 03 that he had to dealer trade to get for a customer from another store. In return he had to send them a MDX and the 00 silver NSX that they traded in w/6k miles on it. Yes this is all from a guy that could be hacking the company line, but it was still nice to hear.

 

[BB]

The furthest price range we can get away from that of the ricer's budget, the better.

When the time comes when they can afford it, that's the day I will let it go.

I don't think you'll ever have to worry about that. Two reasons:

1. Once a car like the NSX gets down in the range of $25-30k all kinds of buyers come out of the woodwork saying, "hey even I'd buy one at that price!" Combine that with the limited number of NSX's available and I don't think you'll ever see the prices go much below $25k.

2. There's simply so few NSX's out there that even if I'm wrong on point 1 and the ricers were eventually able to afford it, you'd likely never know it since there's so few NSX's on the road. It's not like you'd suddenly see riced out NSX's on every corner like you do Civics and Integras. It just ain't going to happen.

 

[insx]

BB,
That's nicely said

Yes, I am willing to pay premium to pay for a very mint used NSX since it's like buying a brand new one at bargain price already. And since there are many people like me, IMO the price of NSX will stay up there

BTW Anyone has a mint Blue NSX for cheap?

 

[gheba_nsx]

Unfortunately there is some kind of depreciation on the other side of the Atlantic

The market in Switzerland and Germany is quite small (I alway look the online ads for NSX, and in Switzerland in one year probably about 15 NSX shows up for sale and are then sold).

The price passed in three years from 31k-36k$ for a low miles (20-50 miles) example to 25k-27k$.
For higher miles (here 60k miles IS HIGH miles since it passes the "critical" 100'000 km), that scares most customer, are nowaday sold for 22k-25k$.

The price loss for '91-'94 was of 20%-25% in three years...

For example my NSX: very well maintained NSX with 75k miles on the odometer, '97 OEM wheels, WW kit, not one scratch, Tubi and OEM exhaust, Bilsteins, CD changer. In generally good/very good condition. I was offered from a Ferrari/Honda/Maserati dealer that is knowledgeable about NSX (he sold many over the last 12 years) an offer of 20k$ as trade-in for a '97 355 that costed 60k$ (here Ferrari costs a LOT less than in the US, a LOT).
If I sell it proivately I think I could realistically 24k$ but only after a long search... most people do not want over 100'000km cars, and who wants, normally does not have a lot of money...

Good thing is that I do not want to sell my car, I only tested the dealer (and test drive the 355! ).

 

[PFORPAUL]

If you are in a hurry to buy-you will pay on the high end of
retail prices and if you are in a hurry to sell you will be on the
low end of retail or possibly on the low end of wholesale.

Just remember why GOD created GENTILES--so someone
could pay LIST PRICE. SHALOM!