You guys have it great. Making 300-600k...even 200k. That's alot of money, but if it isn't then you must have alot of debt.
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how much income per year is 'enough'?
- Thread starter peiserg
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My wife and I had this conversation yesterday. I said that $200K would be what I'd like, maybe $250K, to be able to sit back and say "That's it - I'm where I wanted to be. I'm not pushing for any more."
Why? After taxes on a $200K salary (about $30K, based on modified deductions) and benefits/401(k), etc, etc, I'd have about $140K take-home pay in my pocket each year. That's $11,666 in cash every month.
My income has increased dramatically this year and my wife and I are still looking to downsize. We don't have a lot of toys but a bigger house and property are getting tiresome to us. We're looking for a smaller, well-designed and -built house (we may have to build it ourselves - we have a design already) that will last forever and gives us lots of room for the family.
Other than that, as long as we can travel to see family throughout the year, we're pretty easy going. We're almost out of debt so our monthly "gotta pay it" bills are headed to zero in a hurry. We don't need a ton of money to survive or even enjoy financial freedom.
Bottom line: We've learned over the past while, mostly through other people but partially through our own experiences, that toys and "things" can be a lot more trouble than the enjoyment they bring. We're working on focusing on quality and need (vs lavish extravagance) in order to simplify our lives while still giving ourselves and our kids the opportunities and memories that make life worthwhile.
That said, I told her I would "settle" for $150K pretty easily, especially if it was achieved doing my basic 8-5 schedule every day and not infringing on my family time.
Why? After taxes on a $200K salary (about $30K, based on modified deductions) and benefits/401(k), etc, etc, I'd have about $140K take-home pay in my pocket each year. That's $11,666 in cash every month.
My income has increased dramatically this year and my wife and I are still looking to downsize. We don't have a lot of toys but a bigger house and property are getting tiresome to us. We're looking for a smaller, well-designed and -built house (we may have to build it ourselves - we have a design already) that will last forever and gives us lots of room for the family.
Other than that, as long as we can travel to see family throughout the year, we're pretty easy going. We're almost out of debt so our monthly "gotta pay it" bills are headed to zero in a hurry. We don't need a ton of money to survive or even enjoy financial freedom.
Bottom line: We've learned over the past while, mostly through other people but partially through our own experiences, that toys and "things" can be a lot more trouble than the enjoyment they bring. We're working on focusing on quality and need (vs lavish extravagance) in order to simplify our lives while still giving ourselves and our kids the opportunities and memories that make life worthwhile.
That said, I told her I would "settle" for $150K pretty easily, especially if it was achieved doing my basic 8-5 schedule every day and not infringing on my family time.
over the years, my wife and i found that whatever we made was "enough".
My wife and I still live on 27k per year (net) lol. What do you guys who make 500K+ annually spend all that money on?!
We spent so many years as poor ass college students that we still live that way even though we make 4x what we need now. I figure we'll step up and spend some money eventually but for now we are just paying off our first home very quickly (3 years) and then we are just gonna relax, take vacations, etc.
We spent so many years as poor ass college students that we still live that way even though we make 4x what we need now. I figure we'll step up and spend some money eventually but for now we are just paying off our first home very quickly (3 years) and then we are just gonna relax, take vacations, etc.
Same thing you spend your money on -- just bigger, fancier, and in greater quantities.
When you state net is that after Mormon taxes?
And yes, some of us live in pricier 'hoods.
Try mines for example:
Looks like we ranked 31st in the nation for zip codes in the last year the NSX was made. It's probably higher now since I'm still seeing $3million+ homes around here being sold in a matter of days with cash.
http://www.forbes.com/lists/2006/7/ZIP94024.html
If everyone from this forum lived in my 'hood there would be ALOT less NSX owners and NSX's would be worthless with the decreased demand.
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My zip is #8 on that list. I make what I would perceive to be enough anywhere else in the country, but am still nowhere near able to own a house close by.
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I never understood how the median household income can be 150k and the median home price 1.5 million. Who approves the loans and what kind of loans are they? Or is everyone just buying with cash and then making 150k a year at that point?
I don't pay any Mormon taxes in UT, except of course the state taxes, which are one and the same unfortunately. I hate that I have to support them by living here, but it's safe, cheap ($120k is the average house price), and I spend all my free time outdoors so this place is a good central location. If the places you live are so expensive, why not move somewhere more reasonable?
In the area you live, $400K is very comfy life. Don't ask for more or be greedy because money would never be enough. It is like a drug addiction. More you make, the more you spend; and the more money you want. It never ends period.
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I agree. Completely. The more you make, for most people, the more you'd like to make.
I used to make $4/hr... thought "If I could make $8/hr like the cook..."
My wife and I used to make a combined $100k pretax pre retirement. We're both decently frugal... don't borrow except for education and house, pay CC in full every month. We lived just fine, and were perfectly happy with our place in life. I'm pretty happy, money-wise, with what I make now, which is different than a few years ago, money-wise.
I do disagree with you on one part... saying to "ask" for more is greedy. Why? If I want to make a million a year, it is well within my grasp. I simply have to put in the hours. I know guys who do that. How does that make them greedy? I think there's more to life than killing yourself through work... but greedy? No. Maybe he wants to retire at 45. Maybe he doesn't want to make $150k his whole life... till he's 70... and then retire for 4 years till he strokes out.
Greedy would be asking for more than is your "fair" share... If I want to double my hours...therefore double my paycheck... how is that greedy?
First off, I know how good I have it. Your comment almost insinuates (and insults) that I didn't do anything to earn or deserve what I made, nor appreciate what I did earn. Both of which I would disagree with. I could easily wag my finger at you and tell you that you lived a life of excess and selfishness because of how much poorer other people in the world live than you, but what in the world does that have to do with your own personal financial success and the drive it took for you to get there???
However, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. It's not the actual money amount that can determine what is "enough". It's a frame of mind. In reality, people need very little money to survive, like the impoverished nations in Africa you speak of. However, for some people, there is no "enough" and they can never make too much. It is the engine that drives them. You can always strive for more and for some it is the motivation that keeps you going. It like a runner asking what marathon time is good enough? If they are serious about running, then no time is ever enough; the will always strive to improve to do better. I fit into that category. I enjoy making more money. I enjoy the challenge and it's what drives me. Should I be crucified because I chose making money as my motivator instead of running?
Secondly, why are you making money out to be such an evil and the desire for more of it be equally as bad? With more money I earn, the more good I can do with it. What if for each dollar I earn, the more money I give to support the impoverished nations in Africa and the more support they recieve? In that regard, can I ever earn too much? And you have to realize, when I make more money, I'm not stealing it away from anyone else. I'm not robbing someone. I'm developing and growing it. I'm generating it. And where do you think it goes? Right back into the system. I buy goods which lets people keep their jobs. I pay a massive amount of taxes that pay for the military and welfare and medicade. I've paid well over 100 times over the amount services that I will ever use in one lifetime, and who benefits from that? Other people. People who use the police, firemen, and public schools. I've been able to help my dad retire and pay for a college fund for my nieces and nephews. I've donated a lot more to charity since earning more money. Just look at Bill Gates and the Gates foundation and how much he has done for humanity. And he's another guy who never felt like he had "enough" either. So is wanting to earn more such a bad thing?
If anything, not making more money is selfish. Say we were farmers in a village, and I worked 7 days a week and I made enough food for 10 families. Now I keep 7 portions of it and eat like a king, but I also am required to give 3 portions of my food away as "taxes" but it feeds 3 other families. Meanwhile you make "enough" food for your own family in 3 days and decide to spend the other 4 days of the week, relaxing and just doing the things you want to do. Now replace food with money. In that case, is making enough a good thing? You have to realize we are all living in the same planet. The more we produce, the more we ALL benefit; after all there is more to go around. If everyone just looked out for their own, then there is less and less to go around.
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Money is just a means of exchange nothing more.
Obviously there is no right answer.
Those who think that $300K or $500k or $800k is too much need to experience life a bit more. For eg:
When I was 18 - $100k was a "nice round $ figure". I was single, in college and rarely had more than $20 in my wallet.
When I was 26 - $250k seemed like a "nice #". I was just married. We lived on $1600/month had no kids and lived in an apt. 580 sq ft. big.
Today at age 39 - I would say $600k is nice #. Anything more is pure gravy. We have 2 kids and a few more expenses.
Those who think that $300K or $500k or $800k is too much need to experience life a bit more. For eg:
When I was 18 - $100k was a "nice round $ figure". I was single, in college and rarely had more than $20 in my wallet.
When I was 26 - $250k seemed like a "nice #". I was just married. We lived on $1600/month had no kids and lived in an apt. 580 sq ft. big.
Today at age 39 - I would say $600k is nice #. Anything more is pure gravy. We have 2 kids and a few more expenses.
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Stealth wealth is the way to go moving forward. The guy across the street from me has a sixteen car garage, angle parking, and only one overhead garage door. To some it is not about showing. It is hidden under his lawn. The rest of the house is showy though because he entertains a lot for autism fund raisers. I live in a town (Alpine) where the average home is 3-12M. I am in 10M homes every week. Those people are no happier than you folks. Good health and a lot of laughing is the key. :biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:
http://www.homes.com/Real_Estate/NJ/City/ALPINE
http://www.homes.com/Real_Estate/NJ/City/ALPINE
The problem as I see it is those who "need a million a year" confuse NEED with WANT.
I want a house in my neighborhood in SD, but because too many Americans confused wants with needs and fouled up the market, I live in an apartment that meets my needs; that is why I care.
The six figure income I make is the reward for my hard work. But I don't need it, it is more than enough.
I don't cry over money. I cry because my wife died at 43, my parents are aging and their time on this earth is getting shorter, and sitting in my NSX doesn't make life's journey any easier.
i would say a combined income of 150k per year with my future wife would be enough for me to live comfortably. I live in nyc, I can buy a 2 bedroom condo in a good neighborhood for around 200-300K. Money would be kinda tight but I don't need to live in excess. I just need enough money to eat, have decent furniture, and still have a hobby in cars.
150K a year should be around 6.5K per month, mortgage should be $2000 per month, which leaves me with another 2K to spend on utilities and food. that would leave me with another 2.5K to save or spend per month.
150K a year should be around 6.5K per month, mortgage should be $2000 per month, which leaves me with another 2K to spend on utilities and food. that would leave me with another 2.5K to save or spend per month.
First off, I know how good I have it. Your comment almost insinuates (and insults) that I didn't do anything to earn or deserve what I made, nor appreciate what I did earn. Both of which I would disagree with. I could easily wag my finger at you and tell you that you lived a life of excess and selfishness because of how much poorer other people in the world live than you, but what in the world does that have to do with your own personal financial success and the drive it took for you to get there???
However, that wasn't the point I was trying to make. It's not the actual money amount that can determine what is "enough". It's a frame of mind. In reality, people need very little money to survive, like the impoverished nations in Africa you speak of. However, for some people, there is no "enough" and they can never make too much. It is the engine that drives them. You can always strive for more and for some it is the motivation that keeps you going. It like a runner asking what marathon time is good enough? If they are serious about running, then no time is ever enough; the will always strive to improve to do better. I fit into that category. I enjoy making more money. I enjoy the challenge and it's what drives me. Should I be crucified because I chose making money as my motivator instead of running?
Secondly, why are you making money out to be such an evil and the desire for more of it be equally as bad? With more money I earn, the more good I can do with it. What if for each dollar I earn, the more money I give to support the impoverished nations in Africa and the more support they recieve? In that regard, can I ever earn too much? And you have to realize, when I make more money, I'm not stealing it away from anyone else. I'm not robbing someone. I'm developing and growing it. I'm generating it. And where do you think it goes? Right back into the system. I buy goods which lets people keep their jobs. I pay a massive amount of taxes that pay for the military and welfare and medicade. I've paid well over 100 times over the amount services that I will ever use in one lifetime, and who benefits from that? Other people. People who use the police, firemen, and public schools. I've been able to help my dad retire and pay for a college fund for my nieces and nephews. I've donated a lot more to charity since earning more money. Just look at Bill Gates and the Gates foundation and how much he has done for humanity. And he's another guy who never felt like he had "enough" either. So is wanting to earn more such a bad thing?
If anything, not making more money is selfish. Say we were farmers in a village, and I worked 7 days a week and I made enough food for 10 families. Now I keep 7 portions of it and eat like a king, but I also am required to give 3 portions of my food away as "taxes" but it feeds 3 other families. Meanwhile you make "enough" food for your own family in 3 days and decide to spend the other 4 days of the week, relaxing and just doing the things you want to do. Now replace food with money. In that case, is making enough a good thing? You have to realize we are all living in the same planet. The more we produce, the more we ALL benefit; after all there is more to go around. If everyone just looked out for their own, then there is less and less to go around.
Whoa partner. I don't believe you do realize how good you have it because earning either 30k or 600k whatever it was still left you thinking it wasn't enough. In my mind that's sad.
I didn't mean to offend you but maybe have a think about how good your life is instead of being fixated on earning money. You've clearly done well for yourself and all the kudos to you.
Just look at the other side of the fence sometime...
interesting thread, got me thinking, if I plotted my income and happiness on a graph, I'd find that they were roughly inversely proportional...
Now, I want more money so I can race more ( and there's never enough money for that!):biggrin:
Now, I want more money so I can race more ( and there's never enough money for that!):biggrin:
I am. I just don't think you are understanding my post. Again, there is no reason to vilify or deprecate always desiring more. Especially when that desire is at the benefit of everyone. The more money I generate, the more everyone around me benefits (friends, family and strangers alike). Knowing that, how can I ever have “enough”? I can always do better, I can always help more.
Take the end of Schindler's List for example. At the end realized if he only had more money he could have saved more Jews. So did he had “enough” money then? What would it have been like if he saved only 10 Jew because that was “enough”?
Now granted that is an extreme example, but this still happens on a day to day basis but on a smaller scale. In one year I’ve paid and donated more than $200,000 in taxes and charities. Do you know how many families that has fed? Do you know how many services it has provided people? I’m not the only one, just ask Steveny about how much he pays annually and how many people he feels he “supports”.
Try looking beyond the obvious and look deeper into the other side of the fence… you will realize there is more to it then what you first see.
I think you might be making some assumptions here. YOu assume because He or I want to make more money, we don't realize how good we have it.
I have no issue paying my bills. I don't have to budget for much. When I want to get something within reason, I go buy it. If you think just because I don't have to budget (within reason) that I don't "appreciate" not having enough you're mistaken. I've worked for literally every cent in my bank account. I've never spent one penny i haven't earned (as an adult).
I have the feeling the people who "don't appreciate" the money are the ones who don't earn it. I.e. most of steveny's tenants. The moochers who suck the system dry. the jerks who bought a 500k house on a $50k/yr salary and then left the banks (therefore the taxpayer....me) to hold the bag.
I have no idea what you do for a living. or how many hours per week you put in. if you decide you want a new car, and double your hours for a year to pay for it, it's not going to make you greedy (in my opinion). What does it make you? Willing to actually work for your money. Period. I don't see how its any different from someone else.
Let's say Vegas only made $30k a year instead of $600k. He is no less or more greedy and pathetic one way or the other. I for one am glad he makes $600k. He can help pay for all the moochers out there, along with me.
as a side note..
IN the editorial portion of the paper a few days ago, some dude writes in that the Cash for Clunkers is further evidence that the "rich guy" is out to screw the "poor guy." How? Obviously (per the guy writing the letter), "only the rich" can make car payments, so only the rich benefitted from the program. Uh huh. How many cars did I put in the driveways of people that didn't pay for them? I shudder to think. If youre looking for a lack of appreciation... go talk to guys like that. those are the guys who think they "deserve" more. I don't think i deserve anything from anyone. If i "need" something.... i go and earn money.
Needs frequently get confused with wants. That's why most people on welfare smoke... at $7/pk... and complain they don't get enough from my paycheck. I realize i don't "need" more than a 1 room studio with heat/swamp cooler and a moped to commute with. But I stated in the first post this wasn't about staying out of the homeless shelter.. this was more about what people felt was necessary for whatever standard of living they'd be comfortable with. Obviously most people would love to live in a mansion, but are also likely to know that's an unlikely scenario.
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Enough is when one's income is greater than one's needs. Some people need more and some people need less. That reminds me of the phrase "If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall." Therefore, as long as one spends below his/her means, then his/her income is always enough. It's not the income, but the expenses.
In summary, I like to add to the OP's question. How much spending per year is enough?
In summary, I like to add to the OP's question. How much spending per year is enough?
Enough is when one's income is greater than one's needs. Some people need more and some people need less. That reminds me of the phrase "If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall." Therefore, as long as one spends below his/her means, then his/her income is always enough. It's not the income, but the expenses.
In summary, I like to add to the OP's question. How much spending per year is enough?
I will say i spend about 2/3 of what i make ( i think.. this is a rough no calculator estimate). The rest provides me with retirement i suppose, and a security blanket if I'm ever disabled or don't want to work. For me, that extra 1/3 (which i still pay taxes on of course) is part of my "needs" since it provides just the security i want to keep my stress level low enough to be manageable. If i was paycheck to paycheck.. be it at $30k per year or $300k per year... i'd be stressed out.
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