I feel like I am taking crazy pills.

[v8killer]

I took my car to the dyno(mustang) a week ago and it pulled 246rwhp.I have waited for 1YEAR and 2 MONTHS for these results.I also have over $26,000 in reciepts from this man's shop.This is a project in which no shortcuts were taken and no expense has been spared.

BBSC Novi2000 12lbs.
Air to water intercooler
AEM
Wideband O2 sensors
660 injectors
Comptech headers
RM Racing exhaust
Low compression engine rebuild

If I would have known this project was going to remove me from the seat of my NSX for over a year I would have never done it!!!Especially since I spent the money to insure the car for that year without enjoying it.During this time I had 40 gallons of 109 octane fuel go bad in my garage.Do you think I got a good deal?AFR is currently in the 10.8 range.Should the blow off valve blow oil all over the engine compartment?Should the rev limiter kick in at 7600 rpm?Can someone point me in the right direction of someone that can properly tune my car in a timely manner?I am sick and tired of my car sitting in my garage or in his shop depreciating and collecting dust.The person that has been currently tuning my car has spent an insane amount of time tuning my car to get these results and is in no hurry to fix it.

Please help me,
Wayne

 

[satan_srv]

let's see the dyno sheet...

this shop tuned the AEM?

How low of compression did you go on the block?

 

[Yellow Rose]

There are variations from dyno to dyno, even comparing the same brand to each other. I have heard of a Mustang dyno in Phoenix that MB uses (used) that did not have any correction factors entered into the computer. When one of the guys (AEM tuner) that was there to see watch the dyno asked the operator why there are "zeros" in the correction factor cells, the response was less than comforting. Is that enough to record a "loss" of approximately 100 HP? I don't know, but you should be making 346 RWHP not 246 RWHP. Cripes, 246 RWHP is a stock engine.

I am not familiar with the AEM, but assuming the belt is tight and assuming no boost leak (have you verified the 12 PSI with a recording) a contributor for low HP is too much timing retard. Even so, I would expect a HP delta of 20-ish, not 100.

Other than me with the SS and 500 injectors (say, why did you go with 660's.....I'm also at 12 PSI) our engines are the same - except my AFR is 11.8 vs your 10.8.

 

[donwon]

I am sick and tired of my car sitting in my garage or in his shop depreciating and collecting dust.

I really feel your pain.

Doesnt sound like you are running any boost at all. How about attaching a boost guage, if it shows 12 psi or any amount of significant boost for that matter, something has to be wrong with the dyno.[

 

[v8killer]

The peolple at the dyno calculated BHP to be 328hp.Still incredibly weak considering what has gone into this car.I have dropped my car and picked it up more times than I can count.I have been told the power is down for million different reasons(bad bottom pulley,belt slipping,etc).Everytime I get it back its still weak, like I won't notice.

This shop tuned the AEM.

Compression is 9.5 to1 as far as I know.

I went with custom made 660's at the request of the techician that was working on my car.

My HP with 7lbs. was 383 rwhp.Why is my car slower (alot slower) with over $13,000 in upgrades?Why over a year later is this car not tuned properly?My bill is paid in full maybe that is the problem. The man seems to have no motivation to fix the car in a timely manner!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[BryanZublin]

Wayne,
Your sig says you are in Phoenix. Have you tried taking it to Mark Basch to get tuned / fixed?

 

[NSXTech]

Bryan, Thanx for the reccomendation / vote of confidence. Unfortunately, it will only make V8 a little more crazy pill feeling. No joking matter- facts are that the rebuild took most of the time thanx to the machine shop I no longer use. V8 loved the car at the time it was done, running 550 cc's at about 8 psi. When we tried to raise the ante, things got a little behind and the AEM wide bands made tuning a new challenge. The hp problem is obvious, 10.8 is way too rich. I need to get the car back in, and get the mixture back to where the car (and all F/I cars) run their best, which IMO is about 12.2 to 12.6 depending on boost and rpm. I've recruited some AEM help for a few weeks from now- hopefully V8 will be patient that much longer. He has been WAY more than patient so far- more than I would normally ask someone to be.

Thanx.
MB

 

[NSXGOD]

.... He has been WAY more than patient so far- more than I would normally ask someone to be.
Thanx.
MB

Obviously "normal" is situationally relative. I've waited longer than poor Mr. V8 by about a year +. Does Basco still have my motor too?

 

[peiserg]

Am I the only one who got a chuckle out of the above reply? "Pot to Kettle....come in Kettle... Pot to kettle..."

ANywho, I can attest to how fast waynes' car was in January... and that was at 10 lbs boost, 550's, low comp build.. not sure if it was SS or AEm at that point.. that thing was fast.... haven't ridden in it since then. SO i'm sure the car is very capable, but the devils' in the details so to speak. Mine's only at 6+ psi, but plenty fast for me, so i've no doubt wayne's is going to be a beast.

 

[Turbo NSX]

IMO, Cut your losses and get rid of the BBSC (if you can find someone to take it.). I know it sucks, but do you really want to keep going throught this crap. I only know of one person who stands by this product and that is Andy V and he knows his crap about the BBSC because he constantly has to tinker with it.

You will never get the performance you are looking for with the BBSC. Get a turbo or a comptech (at least its reliable and performs). Your more then halfway there for a turbo...ie injectors, aem, headers and hopefully a good rebuild. You could be running with that setup 10-20 psi with a turbo, at I am sure over 500 RWHP and 500lb tq.

Call Gerry or Factor x.....inquire what they may charge you for the rest. My guess is about $6k for the rest of the kit. The headache and frustration are not worth it.

 

[PaynNSX]

I only know of one person who stands by this product and that is Andy V and he knows his crap about the BBSC because he constantly has to tinker with it.

Not trying to fight here, but that is a very ignorant statement. I stand by the product and talk to plenty of other owners that love their BBSC setup.

Originally posted by Turbo NSX
You will never get the performance you are looking for with the BBSC. Get a turbo or a comptech (at least its reliable and performs). Your more then halfway there for a turbo...ie injectors, aem, headers and hopefully a good rebuild. You could be running with that setup 10-20 psi with a turbo, at I am sure over 500 RWHP and 500lb tq.

On my low boost setting (lower than v8killer), my car runs consistent high 11s at 119 - 120 mph at full weight with sub cranked, A/C turned on, and luggage in the trunk. How can you say "you will never get the performance you are looking for"?

Ignorance like this really turns people off from Prime. A fellow enthusiast asks for help and as usual, the soapboxes get dusted off.

Wayne – please PM me a number to reach you at. I would be happy to try and help out.

 

[Turbo NSX]

I feel like I am taking Stupid pills

Not trying to fight here, but that is a very ignorant statement. I stand by the product and talk to plenty of other owners that love their BBSC setup.



On my low boost setting (lower than v8killer), my car runs consistent high 11s at 119 - 120 mph at full weight with sub cranked, A/C turned on, and luggage in the trunk. How can you say "you will never get the performance you are looking for"?

Ignorance like this really turns people off from Prime. A fellow enthusiast asks for help and as usual, the soapboxes get dusted off.

Wayne – please PM me a number to reach you at. I would be happy to try and help out.

How can you say this... I have yet to hear anyone on this board that says that they are 100% happy in their decision to put on a BBSC. If you know one then post their name. Maybe we should start a poll.

Who in the hell races a 1/4 mile with the ac on,luggage and your pulling 11''s, I say Bull$%^. Post the run and what other mods that you have.

Are there not enough blown engines out there to convince people to get rid of this product? Are there not enough frustrated customers? Is the support even marginal? Did any of the basic kits out there actually see a 100 HP gain that was promised? Did someone actually create a webpage just to thrash the BBSC out of their anger for the product?

Pay N, you shouldn't even have the right to give advice as to the satisfaction of the kit, since you are just slightly biased to MB.(the fact that the shop you work for makes money on the install and support for the BBSC). I don't know how you sleep at night knowing that your advice may seriously damage a fellow NSX owners car. Maybe I am wrong I forgot how happy Brian and countless others are with their BBSC's. One last thing you ask "How can you say "you will never get the performance you are looking for"? I had one and removed it 3 months after I got it...why support, performance and mad detonation. My car dyno'd at 320 hp....How embarrasing is that.

V8killer knows the answer to his questions posted above all except where to find a good tuner for his kit. I can't think of any tuners that I would go to that would even touch a BBSC with its reputation for engine failure.

V8killer, I would suggest you talk to others that have had the same problems as you are and ask them if they ever got resolved or if they just gave up and removed the kit. You should go to the baschboost.org site and post there you will more then likely get a no BS answer. Or you can always be very patient and wait for MB to figure out after 2-3 years what is wrong with his kit. Good luck

 

[KGP]

I stand by the product and talk to plenty of other owners that love their BBSC setup.

Good for you/them. Tell ya what: Let me know the next time someone is looking for a BBSC, and I'll give you a nice commission for selling mine.

I hope v8killer gets his sorted out, and I hope he has long lasting success with it. Because if he doesn't, I fear he will be back on the same never ending path, waiting for promises to be filled and deadlines passing by that can't be met.

Note to Mark Basch: You give me a check for compensation for my blown engine<s>, and a public appology for not responding in concert with other BBSC grenades,</s> and I will donate 100% of the money you send me to a non for profit charity. I will even let the Prime members determine the charity.

[Edit: I leave this offer on the table for exactly one week. I must have the check in my hand within that time frame. Check amount must be a sum average of what was paid out to other BBSC pistonitis victims who also decided not to have Mark Basch re-build there engine.]

Sorr about the hijack, v8. I suppose I should place this in its own thread.

Started new thread here.

 

[Yellow Rose]

TURBO TURBO TURBO.....

.....when will you learn?

I only know of one person who stands by this product and that is Andy V and he knows his crap about the BBSC because he constantly has to tinker with it.

Four things, here.

1 - Yes, I do know my crap about the BBSC.

2 - You are sadly mistaken about "constantly has to tinker with it", because my AFR is a rock-solid 11.8, so I have not fired up the laptop in quite some time. And never will unless I change pulley diameter.

3 - Say...........just where is your turbo'ed NSX? Still waiting, aren't you? How long has it been?

4 - I thought the fireworks were finished two days ago.

 

[PaynNSX]

Who in the hell races a 1/4 mile with the ac on,luggage and your pulling 11''s, I say Bull$%^. Post the run and what other mods that you have.

Here's one slip from the day I am refering to (right lane):

I had the same build as v8killer, same intercooler, a little lower boost, and yes I had luggage in the trunk from the trip we were on. It was hot as hell, so I was running the A/C non-stop - this is why I love the car...it truly is a daily driver with all the amenities.

Pay N, you shouldn't even have the right to give advice as to the satisfaction of the kit, since you are just slightly biased to MB.(the fact that the shop you work for makes money on the install and support for the BBSC). I don't know how you sleep at night knowing that your advice may seriously damage a fellow NSX owners car.

I HAVE NEVER RECOMMENDED or sold anyone’s NSX FI product. People have asked me how I liked my BBSC setup and I replied with my personal experience with the product which has been great. The BBSC kits I have installed were purchased by the customer 100% outside of the shop through other venders or MB himself.

 

[Yellow Rose]

Are there not enough blown engines out there to convince people to get rid of this product?

TURBO, this was with the earlier version of the SS box, and you know this. A properly tuned new version of the SS box does not lead to a damaged engine. And you know this too.....why are you living in the past?

Are there not enough frustrated customers? Is the support even marginal?

To quote NSXGOD, each case is “situationally relative”.

Did any of the basic kits out there actually see a 100 HP gain that was promised?

Yes, as captured during a dyno shootout at NSteXpo 2002, which is well documented herein. Do a search. This was with a Novi 1000 without an aftercooler. If memory serves me correctly, not properly tuned, that BBSC made more power than a GMSC and CTSC.

Did someone actually create a webpage just to thrash the BBSC out of their anger for the product?

Why yes, of course. You are very observant. What is your point? Just because the creator of that website is not pleased with MB, doesn’t mean that all BBSCers have anger towards MB, now does it?

Pay N, you shouldn't even have the right to give advice as to the satisfaction of the kit, since you are just slightly biased to MB. (the fact that the shop you work for makes money on the install and support for the BBSC).

Now if this is not a contradiction, I don’t know what is. The very fact that PaynNSX’s shop is familiar with the BBSC does give him the right to dispense advice on the BBSC. I suppose a Dell representative service technician does not have the right to dispense advice on PC setup, huh?

I don't know how you sleep at night knowing that your advice may seriously damage a fellow NSX owners car.

Uh, what advice? PaynNSX did not dispense any advice, he just said that he stands by the BBSC, that’s all.

Maybe I am wrong I forgot how happy Brian and countless others are with their BBSC's.

TURBO, let’s not cloud the issue, ok? Brian’s situation is not the norm. Early BBSC related engine damage was related to the early generation SS controller. If we are referring to the same Brian, his car had an AEM when his engine popped. Additionally, he dropped a valve, not cracked ring lands, so this is further not related to the BBSC induced damage. If you insist on stirring the pot, at least keep the facts straight. Sheesh.

One last thing you ask "How can you say "you will never get the performance you are looking for"? I had one and removed it 3 months after I got it...why support, performance and mad detonation. My car dyno'd at 320 hp....How embarrassing is that.

What HP is good for Billy Bob is not good for Joe Don.

V8killer knows the answer to his questions posted above all except where to find a good tuner for his kit. I can't think of any tuners that I would go to that would even touch a BBSC with its reputation for engine failure.

Yet another narrow-minded, uneducated comment. TURBO, if you carefully re-read V8’s opening thread, you will see that he is running an AEM. Don’t look now, but there are plenty of AEM-certified tuners. I know of two that have tuned a BBSC’ed NSX. Your opinion on this not valid.

V8killer, I would suggest you talk to others that have had the same problems as you are and ask them if they ever got resolved or if they just gave up and removed the kit. You should go to the baschboost.org site and post there you will more then likely get a no BS answer.

GASP!!! No, you don’t say......I bet V8 has already been asking for and getting advice. Duh.

Or you can always be very patient and wait for MB to figure out after 2-3 years what is wrong with his kit. Good luck

Hmmm, should I utter an obscene gesture? Nahhhh, TURBO ain’t worth it.

 

[peiserg]

I will go on the record here. I don't know anything substantial about FI. My car makes 110HP more than stock @ 6.4 psi. It always starts, never stalls, idles fine, accellerates smoothly. Yes, i freely admit, the tuning process was longer than I thought it would be, and I still hope to lean out the car a bit more.

I FULLY understand V8's being pissed. I won't speak for him, he is doing a good job of speaking for himself.

Am I 100% satisfied? Well, i'd say 97%, since tuning took longer than i thought it would, and Mark's shop is always backed up with work, so it's hard to get his undivided attention.

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

Crazy Pills indeed....... Just curious as to how many milligrams those crazy "blue"

pills are, as the hard on for MarkB. (or is it just for the BBSC?) continues on and on and on.


Armando

 

[ub2slw]

awwww you're waiting on parts that never come....hmmm I have NO idea what that's like

Obviously "normal" is situationally relative. I've waited longer than poor Mr. V8 by about a year +. Does Basco still have my motor too?

 

[NetViper]

Are there not enough blown engines out there to convince people to get rid of this product?

TURBO, this was with the earlier version of the SS box, and you know this. A properly tuned new version of the SS box does not lead to a damaged engine. And you know this too.....why are you living in the past?

I could be wrong here, but I think there have been more engines go even with the new box. If I am wrong, please no flames Andy!

 

[peiserg]

i certainly appreciate people checking my trousers for any ongoing excitement. I'm simply stating my opinion based on my experiences. I don't fault people who have not had my experience for voicing other opinions. But don't presume to tell me why I'm saying anything.

 

[prova4re]

TURBO, let’s not cloud the issue, ok? Brian’s situation is not the norm. Early BBSC related engine damage was related to the early generation SS controller. If we are referring to the same Brian, his car had an AEM when his engine popped. Additionally, he dropped a valve, not cracked ring lands, so this is further not related to the BBSC induced damage. If you insist on stirring the pot, at least keep the facts straight. Sheesh.
[/B]

Hi Andy
It's Brian......
My car did break a ring land on the #5 piston, and the valve seal was fliped off. I didn't see any bends in the valves, but he said they might be bent, the valves were only 38 bucks so I replaced them.
I cant say what led up to my engine going boom, it could have been the way I drove it. I don't care at this point, I got my car back in my hands today for the first time since it blew up.
It runs good and I am happy with the way it turned out for me.
Thanks to Devin and Chris from SOS.


No back to V8's problems.

I would take your car to a AEM tuner, like Factor X, Torque Freaks or Devin. Yes I still recomend Devin.

Some of the problems you have with your AEM I had with mine.

The rev limiter should not kick in at 7600 rpm!
MB has not set it to the right limit, He should be able to set this to anything he wants.

One of the other problems I was having was belt sliping, I adjusted it as much as I could. Until there was no more room, the next step is to get a smaller belt.

PM me if you want some more info, as this fourm is turning into a pissing match that I have no intrest in.

 

[v8killer]

I didn't mean to create a big stink.Thanks for pointing me in the right direction guys.I got in touch with an experienced AEM tuner to dial my car in.

 

[NSXTech]

Turbo NSX- Since V8 and I are on the path to resolution, much to your disbelief, this letter is for you. How dare you relate the FACT that there is one kit out there with a happy owner. I have more happy owners than unhappy ones, BY FAR. If you're counting MJ's tombstones, you may as well be counting the customers he claims not to owe any money to. His count is fiction, at least as far as engines that were damaged thru no fault of the owner.
You must assume that if an owner doesn't join your little happy board here and say, "I just love my BBSC" he is a BBSC hater with a blown engine. I'm not sure if thats more arrogant than ignorant, or vice versa. I won't do a head count, I don't have to. I hear daily from people who love their kit and want to know what other goodies I have for sale.

Your obvious bias makes you less than relevant, it makes you an outright misleading, dishonest, let down to the people you claim to serve. I have dealers ordering addl kits, and individuals ordering second kits for their new cars, but like I said earlier, as much as I adore Lud and the job he has done bringing Prime info to the masses, it is a small percentage of the owner base.

I know, lets do a Turbo NSX FAIR UNBIASED COUNT- Who here has heard of NSXPrime. And now, who here has heard that the BBSC has blown a few engines.

InstaTab results- 100% owner readership and 100 percent BBSC info disseminated and of course, with great clarity and honesty.

Cheers,
MB

 

[MiamieNeSeX]

i certainly appreciate people checking my trousers for any ongoing excitement. I'm simply stating my opinion based on my experiences. I don't fault people who have not had my experience for voicing other opinions. But don't presume to tell me why I'm saying anything.

It wasn't directed at you. FI guys are so high strung sheesh, blow off valve must be on too tight.



Although I agree that the F.I. sea is not always smooth sailing, the only thing that is accomplished by bad mouthing each other online is alienating those that can help the most.

Armando