Unfortunately, I've contributed to hi-jacking another member's thread but getting into what started out as a mature, respectful discussion about whether the 1997 - 2001 3.2L NSX motor is any different from the 2002+ 3.2L NSX motor. Unfortunately, the tone of that discussion has turned sour and now the other owner that I was trading posts with has taken other ugly tactics like suggesting that I sell my car for some reason in completely separate threads.
Rather than continue to hi-jack that thread, I thought I'd open up this discussion to the rest of you and hopefully take the high road.
It is my understanding that while Honda made a myriad of changes to the NSX with the introduction of the 2002 car, the motor is essentially the same. Moreover, it is my understanding that the NA2 NSX-R motor is in fact different than the NA2 NSX motor.
The other poster disagreed and while I don't want to paraphrase his arguments, feels that all 02+ motors are stronger than 1997 - 2001 motors.
I'd like to hear/see how you feel.
My argument is based on Honda's own press releases. Including the following:
"2002 Acura NSX -- Introduction
Torrance, Calif. 01/04/2002 --
...
The 2002 mid-engine, two-seater NSX offers two distinct powerplants. The standard powertrain is an all-aluminum 3.2-liter V-6 that produces 290 horsepower and 224 lb-ft of torque mated to a 6-speed manual transmission. An electronically controlled 4-speed automatic transmission with Formula One-inspired Sequential SportShift is optional and is accompanied by an all-aluminum, 3.0-liter V-6 that produces 252 horsepower and 210 lb-ft of torque.
Both engines are normally aspirated and are equipped with dual overhead cams, four- valves per cylinder, a Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC(TM)) system, and a Variable Volume Induction System. They also feature Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) and a direct-ignition system that uses six individual coils, one mounted atop each spark plug, instead of a single coil for all six cylinders.
...
The standard engine on the NSX is an all-aluminum, 90-degree, 3.2-liter (3179 cc), dual overhead cam, 4 valve-per-cylinder V-6 that produces 290 hp at 7100 rpm and 224 lb-ft of torque at 5500 rpm. It is mated to a 6-speed close-ratio manual transmission. Redline for this engine is 8000 rpm.
The only factory option for the NSX is an electronically controlled 4-speed automatic transmission that comes with an all-aluminum, 90-degree, 3.0-liter (2977 cc), dual overhead cam, 4 valve-per-cylinder V-6 with 252 hp at 6600 rpm and 210 lb-ft of torque at 5300 rpm. Redline for this engine is 7500 rpm.
An exclusive, electronically controlled Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC(TM)) system optimizes volumetric efficiency at both high and low engine speeds. A unique Variable Volume Induction System changes the configuration of the intake system in conjunction with varying engine speeds, working with the VTEC system to broaden the torque curve and increase peak power output.
ENGINE BLOCK, CYLINDER HEADS, CRANKSHAFT, PISTONS
To achieve both light weight and durability, the engine block is made of aluminum alloy. While cast iron cylinder liners are used on the 3.0-liter engine, the cylinders on the 3.2-liter V-6 are made using an advanced metallurgical technique called Fiber Reinforced Metal (FRM), in which an ultra lightweight alumina-carbon fiber is cast into the traditional aluminum alloy for enhanced rigidity. This process allows displacement to be increased without increasing bore centers while providing outstanding cooling characteristics.
The 3.2-liter engine has cylinder bore surfaces consisting of a 0.5 mm-thick layer with fibers of carbon and alumina (aluminum oxide, or Al2O3) in the aluminum alloy. In production, the cylinder block's aluminum alloy is poured around cylinder cores composed of these two fibers. The cores absorb the molten aluminum during the casting. After casting, the cylinders are bored to a slightly smaller diameter than the outside diameter of the cores, leaving a tough, wear-resistant, composite cylinder wall integral with the block but reinforced by the fibers. The process allows larger bores within the same external block dimensions and bore spacing, and makes open-deck block construction possible. This is appropriate for the 3.2-liter NSX engine's higher performance level. The elimination of iron cylinder liners allows a weight reduction of 5.3 lbs. for the larger displacement engine.
Because aluminum-on-aluminum is not an ideal combination for durability with a piston sliding in a cylinder, the 3.2-liter aluminum pistons are given an iron coating. The piston crown has been reshaped to improve heat resistance, and the pin diameter enlarged to cope with the higher power output. Conventional aluminum pistons are used in the 3.0-liter engine with iron liners.
The crankshaft on the NSX engine is a forged unit made of a special high-strength steel to cope with the high power output of both engines.
The low-pressure cast aluminum cylinder heads maximize flow into the combustion chambers in the 3.2-liter engine, where 36 mm intake valves are used. Even though the valve diameter is 1 mm larger than in the 3.0-liter engine, a unique cup shape is incorporated into the valve head to allow it to maintain the same weight. To further increase air flow, a special four-angle valve-seat machining process is used to create a gentle radius leading from the intake port into the combustion chamber - a process typically reserved for racing applications. The head gasket on the 3.2-liter V-6 is made of stainless steel to ensure a positive seal with the FRM cylinders. The combustion chamber for both engines is a pent-roof design with generous squish area to promote swirl and enhance combustion efficiency. The spark plug is centrally located for optimum flame propagation and features a platinum tip for improved durability and longer service life.
TITANIUM CONNECTING RODS
The connecting rods are made of a specially patented titanium alloy. While titanium rods are common in Formula One and other race engines, the NSX features the first application of titanium rods in a production car. Compared to a steel connecting rod for the same engine, these titanium rods each weigh 190 g less and are significantly stronger. To cope with the increase in power relative to the 3.0-liter engine, the 3.2-liter engine's piston pin diameter was increased by 1 mm (from 22 mm to 23 mm), while the crankshaft pin diameter was increased by 2 mm (from 53 mm to 55 mm).
To accommodate the larger crankpin diameter, the connecting rod bolts were moved 1 mm farther apart and incorporate a new, high-strength design. The rod bolts used are actually stronger, yet 1 mm smaller in diameter and 20 percent lighter than those previously installed.
VARIABLE VALVE TIMING AND LIFT ELECTRONIC CONTROL (VTEC(TM)) SYSTEM
Without question, the Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC) system is recognized as a breakthrough in engine technology. It convincingly solves the age-old trade-offs between low-end torque and high-end power.
The heart of the VTEC system is a unique camshaft and rocker arm system. For each cylinder's set of two intake (or exhaust) valves, there are three rocker arms and three corresponding lobes on the camshaft. The two outboard lobes each have a profile suited for low- to mid-rpm operation. The third or center cam lobe has a dramatically different profile designed for longer duration and higher lift. This lobe profile is designed to optimize breathing and horsepower production at high engine speeds. At low engine rpm, the valves are operated by the outboard lobes. During high-speed operation above 5800 rpm, the VTEC computer sends a signal to a spool valve, which in turn delivers engine oil pressure to small pistons in the rocker arms. Oil pressure causes the pistons to move, locking all three rocker arms together. Once locked, the rocker arms are forced to follow the center cam lobe, increasing top-end performance. The crossover from low lift to high lift occurs in 0.1 seconds and is virtually undetectable to the driver.
VARIABLE VOLUME INDUCTION SYSTEM
In addition to VTEC, the NSX engine also uses a Variable Volume Induction System. This system uses a separate intake air plenum, located beneath the main intake manifold. This second plenum is separated from the primary manifold by 6 butterfly valves, which open between 4600 and 4900 rpm and are activated by manifold vacuum.
When the valves open, the added volume of the secondary plenum creates a higher resonance frequency, which in turn creates a sonic pressure wave. This sonic pressure wave arrives at each pair of intake valves just as they open, promoting more rapid and complete cylinder filling. This system was designed to work in concert with VTEC to improve both low-end torque and high-rpm power.
FUEL INJECTION
Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) ensures that each cylinder receives the precise amount of fuel necessary at any given time and with varying load and speed conditions. This system has been specially tailored to the unique capabilities of the induction and VTEC systems. An air-assist mechanism aids fuel atomization for better combustion at low temperatures.
EXHAUST SYSTEM
The NSX features a lightweight, highly efficient exhaust system that, for 2002 includes, thicker, more aggressive exhaust tips. On the 3.2-liter V-6, the exhaust manifold employs stainless steel header pipes rather than a cast-iron manifold for improved performance and lighter weight. Increased flow from this configuration is a key contributor to the 290 horsepower produced by this engine.
...
The 2002 model gets updated styling, to modernize the car's looks and refinements to the chassis to ensure its competitiveness as a modern sports car. For 2002 the NSX will be available exclusively with a removable aluminum roof panel that can be easily stowed under the rear glass hatch.
The front fascia of the NSX has been updated with a higher hood, and a redesigned front bumper and spoiler. The front headlights have gone from pop up bulbs to projector-type Xenon High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps. Other external styling refinements include new mesh side intakes, redesigned side sills, a trunk lip spoiler, an integrated diffuser designed into the bumper lower, more aggressive exhaust tips and a redesigned taillight configuration. The combination of body enhancements makes the NSX more aerodynamic than ever before and, in addition to enhancing front to rear aerodynamic balance, increases the NSX's top speed from 168 mph to 175 mph.
MANUFACTURING
The goal behind the design of the unique Takanezawa assembly plant in Tochigi, Japan, is to produce the highest quality automotive product in the world.
This plant has no automated conveyor line. Rather, each car is mounted on a dolly and pushed by hand from one workstation to the next. Each team of workers is responsible for the quality of work performed at their station. The car is not passed on to the next area until the team is satisfied that their procedures have achieved the tolerances and goals required in the specifications. Each assembly station, in effect, also functions as an inspection station.
Engine assembly is also done in a unique way to ensure the highest level of assembly quality. Contrary to typical mass production procedures, each NSX engine is assembled by an individual, highly skilled technician from start to finish. This process keeps tolerances to levels that would not be possible in a mass assembly procedure and helps assure reliability and durability.
"
and these quotes from http://www.world.honda.com/NSX/technology/t5.html
"The engine employs the same kind of high precision dynamic balanced clutch cover, fly wheel, and pulley assembly as is used in racing engines. Highly qualified veteran technicians check each assembly with a balancer, pruning away tiny specks of metal with their high precision drill. Rotating weight tolerance is reduced to below 1/10 that of the base NSX, to correspond to the same exacting standards used in racing.
To obtain the maximum effect of this high-precision balancing, weight tolerances of the piston and connecting rod pairs are controlled to within about half that of the base model, just as in the original NSX-R. Crankcase-side and engine block-side main journal diameters are measured, and those having the same bearing metal thickness are combined to increase metal clearance precision and reduce friction. The adoption of these and other time-consuming methods normally unheard of in mass-production imbue the New NSX-R's engine with breathtaking response and feel."
and
"The NSX-R's race bred engine is assembled at Honda Engineering's Tochigi Technical Center. Situated right next to the Tochigi Takanezawa plant wher the NSX is assembled, this factory... also produces engines for the NSX, the S2000 and the Insight... "
I've been told I'm full of sh*t but just the same, I'd like to hear what you guys think. I know there are a lot of folks out there that know a lot more about the NSX than I do and I'm not afraid to admit that I'm wrong. That is, when I'm wrong.
In fact, I'm more than happy to create another thread if someone can provide FACTS that prove me wrong.
Thanks for looking.
Rather than continue to hi-jack that thread, I thought I'd open up this discussion to the rest of you and hopefully take the high road.
It is my understanding that while Honda made a myriad of changes to the NSX with the introduction of the 2002 car, the motor is essentially the same. Moreover, it is my understanding that the NA2 NSX-R motor is in fact different than the NA2 NSX motor.
The other poster disagreed and while I don't want to paraphrase his arguments, feels that all 02+ motors are stronger than 1997 - 2001 motors.
I'd like to hear/see how you feel.
My argument is based on Honda's own press releases. Including the following:
"2002 Acura NSX -- Introduction
Torrance, Calif. 01/04/2002 --
...
The 2002 mid-engine, two-seater NSX offers two distinct powerplants. The standard powertrain is an all-aluminum 3.2-liter V-6 that produces 290 horsepower and 224 lb-ft of torque mated to a 6-speed manual transmission. An electronically controlled 4-speed automatic transmission with Formula One-inspired Sequential SportShift is optional and is accompanied by an all-aluminum, 3.0-liter V-6 that produces 252 horsepower and 210 lb-ft of torque.
Both engines are normally aspirated and are equipped with dual overhead cams, four- valves per cylinder, a Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC(TM)) system, and a Variable Volume Induction System. They also feature Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) and a direct-ignition system that uses six individual coils, one mounted atop each spark plug, instead of a single coil for all six cylinders.
...
The standard engine on the NSX is an all-aluminum, 90-degree, 3.2-liter (3179 cc), dual overhead cam, 4 valve-per-cylinder V-6 that produces 290 hp at 7100 rpm and 224 lb-ft of torque at 5500 rpm. It is mated to a 6-speed close-ratio manual transmission. Redline for this engine is 8000 rpm.
The only factory option for the NSX is an electronically controlled 4-speed automatic transmission that comes with an all-aluminum, 90-degree, 3.0-liter (2977 cc), dual overhead cam, 4 valve-per-cylinder V-6 with 252 hp at 6600 rpm and 210 lb-ft of torque at 5300 rpm. Redline for this engine is 7500 rpm.
An exclusive, electronically controlled Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC(TM)) system optimizes volumetric efficiency at both high and low engine speeds. A unique Variable Volume Induction System changes the configuration of the intake system in conjunction with varying engine speeds, working with the VTEC system to broaden the torque curve and increase peak power output.
ENGINE BLOCK, CYLINDER HEADS, CRANKSHAFT, PISTONS
To achieve both light weight and durability, the engine block is made of aluminum alloy. While cast iron cylinder liners are used on the 3.0-liter engine, the cylinders on the 3.2-liter V-6 are made using an advanced metallurgical technique called Fiber Reinforced Metal (FRM), in which an ultra lightweight alumina-carbon fiber is cast into the traditional aluminum alloy for enhanced rigidity. This process allows displacement to be increased without increasing bore centers while providing outstanding cooling characteristics.
The 3.2-liter engine has cylinder bore surfaces consisting of a 0.5 mm-thick layer with fibers of carbon and alumina (aluminum oxide, or Al2O3) in the aluminum alloy. In production, the cylinder block's aluminum alloy is poured around cylinder cores composed of these two fibers. The cores absorb the molten aluminum during the casting. After casting, the cylinders are bored to a slightly smaller diameter than the outside diameter of the cores, leaving a tough, wear-resistant, composite cylinder wall integral with the block but reinforced by the fibers. The process allows larger bores within the same external block dimensions and bore spacing, and makes open-deck block construction possible. This is appropriate for the 3.2-liter NSX engine's higher performance level. The elimination of iron cylinder liners allows a weight reduction of 5.3 lbs. for the larger displacement engine.
Because aluminum-on-aluminum is not an ideal combination for durability with a piston sliding in a cylinder, the 3.2-liter aluminum pistons are given an iron coating. The piston crown has been reshaped to improve heat resistance, and the pin diameter enlarged to cope with the higher power output. Conventional aluminum pistons are used in the 3.0-liter engine with iron liners.
The crankshaft on the NSX engine is a forged unit made of a special high-strength steel to cope with the high power output of both engines.
The low-pressure cast aluminum cylinder heads maximize flow into the combustion chambers in the 3.2-liter engine, where 36 mm intake valves are used. Even though the valve diameter is 1 mm larger than in the 3.0-liter engine, a unique cup shape is incorporated into the valve head to allow it to maintain the same weight. To further increase air flow, a special four-angle valve-seat machining process is used to create a gentle radius leading from the intake port into the combustion chamber - a process typically reserved for racing applications. The head gasket on the 3.2-liter V-6 is made of stainless steel to ensure a positive seal with the FRM cylinders. The combustion chamber for both engines is a pent-roof design with generous squish area to promote swirl and enhance combustion efficiency. The spark plug is centrally located for optimum flame propagation and features a platinum tip for improved durability and longer service life.
TITANIUM CONNECTING RODS
The connecting rods are made of a specially patented titanium alloy. While titanium rods are common in Formula One and other race engines, the NSX features the first application of titanium rods in a production car. Compared to a steel connecting rod for the same engine, these titanium rods each weigh 190 g less and are significantly stronger. To cope with the increase in power relative to the 3.0-liter engine, the 3.2-liter engine's piston pin diameter was increased by 1 mm (from 22 mm to 23 mm), while the crankshaft pin diameter was increased by 2 mm (from 53 mm to 55 mm).
To accommodate the larger crankpin diameter, the connecting rod bolts were moved 1 mm farther apart and incorporate a new, high-strength design. The rod bolts used are actually stronger, yet 1 mm smaller in diameter and 20 percent lighter than those previously installed.
VARIABLE VALVE TIMING AND LIFT ELECTRONIC CONTROL (VTEC(TM)) SYSTEM
Without question, the Variable Valve Timing and Lift Electronic Control (VTEC) system is recognized as a breakthrough in engine technology. It convincingly solves the age-old trade-offs between low-end torque and high-end power.
The heart of the VTEC system is a unique camshaft and rocker arm system. For each cylinder's set of two intake (or exhaust) valves, there are three rocker arms and three corresponding lobes on the camshaft. The two outboard lobes each have a profile suited for low- to mid-rpm operation. The third or center cam lobe has a dramatically different profile designed for longer duration and higher lift. This lobe profile is designed to optimize breathing and horsepower production at high engine speeds. At low engine rpm, the valves are operated by the outboard lobes. During high-speed operation above 5800 rpm, the VTEC computer sends a signal to a spool valve, which in turn delivers engine oil pressure to small pistons in the rocker arms. Oil pressure causes the pistons to move, locking all three rocker arms together. Once locked, the rocker arms are forced to follow the center cam lobe, increasing top-end performance. The crossover from low lift to high lift occurs in 0.1 seconds and is virtually undetectable to the driver.
VARIABLE VOLUME INDUCTION SYSTEM
In addition to VTEC, the NSX engine also uses a Variable Volume Induction System. This system uses a separate intake air plenum, located beneath the main intake manifold. This second plenum is separated from the primary manifold by 6 butterfly valves, which open between 4600 and 4900 rpm and are activated by manifold vacuum.
When the valves open, the added volume of the secondary plenum creates a higher resonance frequency, which in turn creates a sonic pressure wave. This sonic pressure wave arrives at each pair of intake valves just as they open, promoting more rapid and complete cylinder filling. This system was designed to work in concert with VTEC to improve both low-end torque and high-rpm power.
FUEL INJECTION
Programmed Fuel Injection (PGM-FI) ensures that each cylinder receives the precise amount of fuel necessary at any given time and with varying load and speed conditions. This system has been specially tailored to the unique capabilities of the induction and VTEC systems. An air-assist mechanism aids fuel atomization for better combustion at low temperatures.
EXHAUST SYSTEM
The NSX features a lightweight, highly efficient exhaust system that, for 2002 includes, thicker, more aggressive exhaust tips. On the 3.2-liter V-6, the exhaust manifold employs stainless steel header pipes rather than a cast-iron manifold for improved performance and lighter weight. Increased flow from this configuration is a key contributor to the 290 horsepower produced by this engine.
...
The 2002 model gets updated styling, to modernize the car's looks and refinements to the chassis to ensure its competitiveness as a modern sports car. For 2002 the NSX will be available exclusively with a removable aluminum roof panel that can be easily stowed under the rear glass hatch.
The front fascia of the NSX has been updated with a higher hood, and a redesigned front bumper and spoiler. The front headlights have gone from pop up bulbs to projector-type Xenon High Intensity Discharge (HID) lamps. Other external styling refinements include new mesh side intakes, redesigned side sills, a trunk lip spoiler, an integrated diffuser designed into the bumper lower, more aggressive exhaust tips and a redesigned taillight configuration. The combination of body enhancements makes the NSX more aerodynamic than ever before and, in addition to enhancing front to rear aerodynamic balance, increases the NSX's top speed from 168 mph to 175 mph.
MANUFACTURING
The goal behind the design of the unique Takanezawa assembly plant in Tochigi, Japan, is to produce the highest quality automotive product in the world.
This plant has no automated conveyor line. Rather, each car is mounted on a dolly and pushed by hand from one workstation to the next. Each team of workers is responsible for the quality of work performed at their station. The car is not passed on to the next area until the team is satisfied that their procedures have achieved the tolerances and goals required in the specifications. Each assembly station, in effect, also functions as an inspection station.
Engine assembly is also done in a unique way to ensure the highest level of assembly quality. Contrary to typical mass production procedures, each NSX engine is assembled by an individual, highly skilled technician from start to finish. This process keeps tolerances to levels that would not be possible in a mass assembly procedure and helps assure reliability and durability.
"
and these quotes from http://www.world.honda.com/NSX/technology/t5.html
"The engine employs the same kind of high precision dynamic balanced clutch cover, fly wheel, and pulley assembly as is used in racing engines. Highly qualified veteran technicians check each assembly with a balancer, pruning away tiny specks of metal with their high precision drill. Rotating weight tolerance is reduced to below 1/10 that of the base NSX, to correspond to the same exacting standards used in racing.
To obtain the maximum effect of this high-precision balancing, weight tolerances of the piston and connecting rod pairs are controlled to within about half that of the base model, just as in the original NSX-R. Crankcase-side and engine block-side main journal diameters are measured, and those having the same bearing metal thickness are combined to increase metal clearance precision and reduce friction. The adoption of these and other time-consuming methods normally unheard of in mass-production imbue the New NSX-R's engine with breathtaking response and feel."
and
"The NSX-R's race bred engine is assembled at Honda Engineering's Tochigi Technical Center. Situated right next to the Tochigi Takanezawa plant wher the NSX is assembled, this factory... also produces engines for the NSX, the S2000 and the Insight... "
I've been told I'm full of sh*t but just the same, I'd like to hear what you guys think. I know there are a lot of folks out there that know a lot more about the NSX than I do and I'm not afraid to admit that I'm wrong. That is, when I'm wrong.
In fact, I'm more than happy to create another thread if someone can provide FACTS that prove me wrong.
Thanks for looking.
One of the most interesting topics ever...
