Local Dealer says new NSX starting at 150k

[Jimbo]

I seriously doubt an Acura dealer knows anything about pricing yet. There's just too much work left to be done.

$150K?

Forget it. That won't be competitive with the field. And unfortunately, it's not like Honda has the marque or the cachet to pull off charging more than the competition.

There's no way they're going to be able to pull 500+HP out of the V6.

 

[NSX2398]

You guys obviously missed this quote - "The NSX should go on sale “within three years” and probably can’t be sold for “less than $100,000,” Tetsuo Iwamura, Honda’s chief operating officer for North America, said in an interview in Las Vegas, without elaborating." Source: Dec 14 BusinessWeek article - http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ra-ilx-helps-keep-gen-y-out-of-lexus-bmw.html

 

[Jimbo]

Honda needs to sell more than 200 a year.

The ONLY way they can sell a new NSX for $150K would be if they do what Porsche does. Have an entry level car with 400-450 hp for $100K and a ultra-performance version for $150K. Just like the 911 and 911 Turbo.

Here's another way to think about it...

At $150K this new NSX would be more than 3 times the price of their next highest price car (ZDX @ $47K). That's way too much. That would represent a completely different buyer than walks into an Acura dealer. $47K to $150K? It's a HUGE jump. Why bother making a halo car that's so far beyond what your typical customer base represents?

A base Corvette is probably 1.5 to 2 times the price of the next highest Chevy. And while most Chevy customers will never own a Corvette, at least it's reasonable for them to consider one if they just saved a bit more. The Vette goes from $50K to $120K for the ZR-1 with 640hp.

Another example, Audi has a nice pricing structure flowing from their entry level cars all the way to their premium cars. There's no huge, discontinuous jump in price.

I believe there has to be a reasonable price structure from the entry level cars, to the typical cars and then onto the premium or halo cars. 3X just isn't going to cut it.

-Jim

PS: This is one reason why VW's Phaeton failed here in the US.

 

[TURBO2GO]

You guys obviously missed this quote - "The NSX should go on sale “within three years” and probably can’t be sold for “less than $100,000,” Tetsuo Iwamura, Honda’s chief operating officer for North America, said in an interview in Las Vegas, without elaborating." Source: Dec 14 BusinessWeek article - http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ra-ilx-helps-keep-gen-y-out-of-lexus-bmw.html

Just read that. That bet's not looking good for you WingZ.

 

[2slow2speed]

Honda needs to sell more than 200 a year.

The ONLY way they can sell a new NSX for $150K would be if they do what Porsche does. Have an entry level car with 400-450 hp for $100K and a ultra-performance version for $150K. Just like the 911 and 911 Turbo.

Here's another way to think about it...

At $150K this new NSX would be more than 3 times the price of their next highest price car (ZDX @ $47K). That's way too much. That would represent a completely different buyer than walks into an Acura dealer. $47K to $150K? It's a HUGE jump. Why bother making a halo car that's so far beyond what your typical customer base represents?

A base Corvette is probably 1.5 to 2 times the price of the next highest Chevy. And while most Chevy customers will never own a Corvette, at least it's reasonable for them to consider one if they just saved a bit more. The Vette goes from $50K to $120K for the ZR-1 with 640hp.

Another example, Audi has a nice pricing structure flowing from their entry level cars all the way to their premium cars. There's no huge, discontinuous jump in price.

I believe there has to be a reasonable price structure from the entry level cars, to the typical cars and then onto the premium or halo cars. 3X just isn't going to cut it.

-Jim

PS: This is one reason why VW's Phaeton failed here in the US.

Following up on your train of thought:

Does anyone remember what was the MSRP for the 2nd generation 2 door or 4 door Acura Legend back in 1991-1992?

That would give a better idea if the MSRP gap between the 1991 NSX and the Legend was a factor of 3, factor of 2.5, etc.

 

[bobert486]

Following up on your train of thought:

Does anyone remember what was the MSRP for the 2nd generation 2 door or 4 door Acura Legend back in 1991-1992?

That would give a better idea if the MSRP gap between the 1991 NSX and the Legend was a factor of 3, factor of 2.5, etc.

about 38k. I had a 94 GS sedan, top of the line with an MSRP of 435XX.

$47K to $150K? It's a HUGE jump. Why bother making a halo car that's so far beyond what your typical customer base represents?

Then again, there is Lexus. A loaded LS hybrid is about 125k and a rather "distinctive" gap to the LFA at 400k

 

[Jimbo]

about 38k. I had a 94 GS sedan, top of the line with an MSRP of 435XX.

Then again, there is Lexus. A loaded LS hybrid is about 125k and a rather "distinctive" gap to the LFA at 400k

The LF-A is an anomaly. The screws even have Lexus engraved on the the screw heads.

But if Lexus ever decides to make a real production sports car like the LF-LC they probably could go a bit higher than Acura due to their higher priced models. Acura was always the more affordable alternative to Lexus.

Lexus has models that list for $68K up thru $112K. A $150K sports car for Lexus would be in line with their product line up.

 

[bobert486]

The LF-A is an anomaly. The screws even have Lexus engraved on the the screw heads.

Yeah I know, its definitely and oddball. Regardless, thats their current offering. I love the obsession to detail toyota engineers put into that car. Unfortunately, the style isnt as beautiful as our NSX, or competing supercars(IMO)

 

[WingZ]

I seriously doubt an Acura dealer knows anything about pricing yet. There's just too much work left to be done.

$150K?

Forget it. That won't be competitive with the field. And unfortunately, it's not like Honda has the marque or the cachet to pull off charging more than the competition.

There's no way they're going to be able to pull 500+HP out of the V6.

Thank you and when did Honda ever charge more than the competition??

You guys obviously missed this quote - "The NSX should go on sale “within three years” and probably can’t be sold for “less than $100,000,” Tetsuo Iwamura, Honda’s chief operating officer for North America, said in an interview in Las Vegas, without elaborating." Source: Dec 14 BusinessWeek article - http://www.businessweek.com/news/20...ra-ilx-helps-keep-gen-y-out-of-lexus-bmw.html

Hey he said probably:biggrin:

1. He's probably thinking "yen" anyway.
2. It's not like labor will be costing them like it's costing Nissan with the GTR

Just read that. That bet's not looking good for you WingZ.

Puh lease! Ok I'll be fair and show you what I'm looking at and you explain to me where the additional up cost is coming from.

Ok the electric awd system not exclusive to the NSX

A new hybrid system, electric SH-AWD, was developed for large-sized vehicles. By combining a 3.5L, V6 engine with this hybrid system, acceleration equivalent to V8 engines, as well as fuel efficiency equal or superior to in-line 4-cylinder engines were realized.

So developed for LARGE size vehicles right? That means not just RL , but the MDX as well. That's cost sharing like a mutha on the main tech Honda is telling us the NSX will have.

My kid brother Ekin said he saw that hybrid tech and knew it would 20% right. I might agree but GUESS WHAT? That tech will not only be in the MDX , RL but take a lookee

* A two-motor hybrid system featuring top-of-industry efficiency*1 enhancing driving performance and reduced CO2 emissions has been newly developed.
* Special lithium-ion battery and charger is employed to enable mounting on plug-in hybrid vehicles.
* Mid-sized vehicles equipped with this system are scheduled to begin production, starting with the plug-in hybrid model in 2012 and the hybrid model in 2013.
* Three driving modes allowing for top-of-industry efficiency*1 for various driving environments were developed; an "EV driving mode" for urban environments, a "hybrid driving mode" using electricity generated by the motor, and a "engine-connected driving mode" where the engine and tires are mechanically connected during high-speed cruising.
* Combination with a high-output 120kW motor allows for superior environmental performance and driving enjoyment.

So looks like the TL will get the n ew hybrid system as well. So now including the NSX four Acura vehicles will be using the new hybrid system. Plus what vehicle did Honda use to introduce the this new tech to the media ... a friggen ACCORD

Go, Go, Go, Go, Go, Go, Go SH-AWD

Acura calls the system Sport Hybrid Super Handling All-Wheel Drive—we got a preview of the basic setup on a recent trip to Japan by way of a front-engine Honda Accord demonstration vehicle. The same principles should apply to the NSX, albeit flipped front-to-back to match the supercar’s powertrain layout.

So other than the body please explain to me where you see this $120-150k pricing coming from. At this point I can't see why it would be more expensive than a GTR which shares way less tech with the rest of the Nissan line up and has it's on assembly plant with Japanese guys working for yen not American dollars. Please explain to me:biggrin:

 

[Arshad]

It's not just the cost of the individual components, but the cost of R&D as well. If they spend tens of millions on custom development specifically for this car, and then only sell a few thousand units, they're already going to be at a loss. Sure they could probably share a whole lot with existing platforms and save a ton of money -- but then their sportscar would also drive like their SUV.

By the way halo products are not necessarily ones that "regular" people strive for. It's to showcase the technology and prowess and to make the guy driving his minivan feel good -- like he's sharing some of the DNA of the halo product.

It's kind of like the graphics card market for PC's. Only a tiny fraction of hardcore enthusiasts spend $700 on their graphics cards, but the performance and halo effect of those cards drive the sales of the $50-100 spenders whose entire PC's cost less than that.

 

[WingZ]

It's not just the cost of the individual components, but the cost of R&D as well. If they spend tens of millions on custom development specifically for this car, and then only sell a few thousand units, they're already going to be at a loss. Sure they could probably share a whole lot with existing platforms and save a ton of money -- but then their sportscar would also drive like their SUV.

By the way halo products are not necessarily ones that "regular" people strive for. It's to showcase the technology and prowess and to make the guy driving his minivan feel good -- like he's sharing some of the DNA of the halo product.

It's kind of like the graphics card market for PC's. Only a tiny fraction of hardcore enthusiasts spend $700 on their graphics cards, but the performance and halo effect of those cards drive the sales of the $50-100 spenders whose entire PC's cost less than that.

Ok but the R&D in this case is for FOUR vehicles and not just one. The only thing that we know of currently going only to the vehicle is the aluminum body. Acura has already said a lot of the tech is coming from the discontinued ASCC which was scrapped. So are they trying to make us pay extra for a platform they discontinued LOL

 

[Honcho]

I agree with Perry. Iwamura is talking out of his ass because he doesn't even have a car to sell yet. I think he was just trying to impress the public and put some legitimacy on the fact that the NSX will be a true "halo" car and not some warmed over Accord. Based on the limited published data by Acura, and the fact that it will be USA-made, I stand by my predicition of $75k to $105k for the base model. Figure $10k premium for the NSX-T roadster and higher premiums for Type S and NSX-R.

 

[gleibig]

I ran into a guy at WAWA who said it will be priced at $127k.

 

[desertwind]

$150K.

Hmmm. Would that make it the most expensive car made in the US?

 

[Arshad]

Well I've got my name on the list at the dealership. As long as it doesn't start approaching the prices of a used 458 three years from now, I'll be happy.

BTW, what are they planning on using from the ASCC? The only thing I can think of is possibly a variation of the transmission, and even that doesn't seem likely based on Honda's comments. We know it's not the chassis due to engine configuration, we know it's not the engine, and there was no hybrid system to leverage... sooo... what exactly are they taking from the ASCC?

I'm really not convinced that there is a ton of shared R&D here.

 

[synergy004]

No, the ssc aero was the highest at one point, now Hennesseys car priced at 1 million for his car which passed US emissions. Several yrs it was the Saleen S7 TT.

$150K.

Hmmm. Would that make it the most expensive car made in the US?

 

[WingZ]

Well I've got my name on the list at the dealership. As long as it doesn't start approaching the prices of a used 458 three years from now, I'll be happy.

BTW, what are they planning on using from the ASCC? The only thing I can think of is possibly a variation of the transmission, and even that doesn't seem likely based on Honda's comments. We know it's not the chassis due to engine configuration, we know it's not the engine, and there was no hybrid system to leverage... sooo... what exactly are they taking from the ASCC?

I'm really not convinced that there is a ton of shared R&D here.

Unknown but this what Acura higher ups told C/D in 12/10

Details were far sketchier regarding additional members of the Acura lineup. We were told that Acura will soon introduce something unconventional sometime around the launch of the new flagship sedan. Will it be sporty? Probably. Will it be called NSX? Who knows. Will it be the front-engine supercar we saw lapping the Nürburgring a couple of years ago? No. Although that car was all but finished, according to Acura insiders, it was cancelled—not even shelved—due to Honda’s concerns that it might be crass to offer a $150K–$175K sports car in the face of worldwide economic hardship. However, much of the technology developed for that car will appear in the new car.
Whatever it’s called.

So more than a little is coming from that car

 

[Osiris_x11]

point-of-references...

The non-MVA pre-TTL MSRP for a '91 NSX was ~$60k. A well-equipped 1st model-year mid-model-change gen-4 '91 Accord was ~$15k, a moderately-equipped 1st model-year gen-2 '91 Legend was ~$30k.

In 2005 (w/ regards to MSRP's), the NSX-T was ~$90k, a well-equipped Accord was ~$22.5k, a moderately-equipped RL was ~$45k.

Fast-forward if you will to model-year 2014 w/ availability mid/latter 2013 (based on 2011/2012 pricing), this is what seems likely:

~$100k+ NSX-2.0
~$25k+ Accord 9th gen. (well-equipped)
~$50k+ RL 3rd gen. (moderately-equipped)

... and none of all that really matters now, it was just to give perspective.

Personally speaking, I see the forthcoming NSX-2.0 being no less than ~$100k & no more than ~$125k. If it can deliver 9/10 of the overall experience & all-around performance of the 458 Italia, Gallardo, MP4-12C, sign me up! Tho'- there is an uncomfortable feeling in me w/ some realness to the reality that it may be ~$150k+ (or even ~$125k to ~$150k) of which would make me "meh" unless it was out-of-this-world special (to me).

Some have pegged the USDM Nissan GT-R price-point (USD). The R-35 may only be ~$85k, but you're getting a ~$25k car w/ a ~$60k power-train/drive-train. It ain't called Godzilla for no reason!

FWIW, the pay-to-play is:

~$65k+ Cayman
~$75k+ Evora
~$80k+ C6 Z06
~$85k+ GT-R
~$100k+ 911 Carrera
~$110k+ C6 ZR1
~$125k+ 911 GT3
~$135k+ R8 V8
~$150k+ 911 Turbo
~$165k+ R8 V10
~$200k+ SLS AMG
~$225k+ Gallardo
~$250k+ 458 Italia
~$250k+ MP4-12C


Assuming the NSX-2.0 is of an exotic form-factor along w/ a (rear) mid-engine, upward-opening doors (please, please Honda! ), high-revving & efficient/dependable V6 w/ linear power-delivery, aluminum+composite in construction, reasonable to own/run & maintain-service, advanced electronics (torque-vectoring, brake-steer, launch/traction/suspension controls, H.U.D., WiFi & data/telemetry display), performance parameters of ~3.75s or less 0-60mph, ~11.5s 1/4mile, ~175mph+ topspeed, SH-AWD w/ KERS, CVT hybrid, ~3,000 lbs. weight (even under ~3,200 lbs. would be grear), uber-lite version of Acura's Power Plenum design/styling philosophy, and a sticker of ~$100k to ~$125k... I'm game!

I personally could care less if it was 350hp, 450hp, 550hp IF it accomplished all of the aforementioned. T-&-T (torque & traction) matter to me more than HP which is tooted for bench-racing & high-end/topspeed. Practical & usable performance metrics being fulfilled are all that matter to me. . .

 

[WingZ]

Re: point-of-references...

The non-MVA pre-TTL MSRP for a '91 NSX was ~$60k. A well-equipped 1st model-year mid-model-change gen-4 '91 Accord was ~$15k, a moderately-equipped 1st model-year gen-2 '91 Legend was ~$30k.

In 2005 (w/ regards to MSRP's), the NSX-T was ~$90k, a well-equipped Accord was ~$22.5k, a moderately-equipped RL was ~$45k.

Fast-forward if you will to model-year 2014 w/ availability mid/latter 2013 (based on 2011/2012 pricing), this is what seems likely:

~$100k+ NSX-2.0
~$25k+ Accord 9th gen. (well-equipped)
~$50k+ RL 3rd gen. (moderately-equipped)

... and none of all that really matters now, it was just to give perspective.

Personally speaking, I see the forthcoming NSX-2.0 being no less than ~$100k & no more than ~$125k. If it can deliver 9/10 of the overall experience & all-around performance of the 458 Italia, Gallardo, MP4-12C, sign me up! Tho'- there is an uncomfortable feeling in me w/ some realness to the reality that it may be ~$150k+ (or even ~$125k to ~$150k) of which would make me "meh" unless it was out-of-this-world special (to me).

Some have pegged the USDM Nissan GT-R price-point (USD). The R-35 may only be ~$85k, but you're getting a ~$25k car w/ a ~$60k power-train/drive-train. It ain't called Godzilla for no reason!

FWIW, the pay-to-play is:

~$65k+ Cayman
~$75k+ Evora
~$80k+ C6 Z06
~$85k+ GT-R
~$100k+ 911 Carrera
~$110k+ C6 ZR1
~$125k+ 911 GT3
~$135k+ R8 V8
~$150k+ 911 Turbo
~$165k+ R8 V10
~$200k+ SLS AMG
~$225k+ Gallardo
~$250k+ 458 Italia
~$250k+ MP4-12C


Assuming the NSX-2.0 is of an exotic form-factor along w/ a (rear) mid-engine, upward-opening doors (please, please Honda! ), high-revving & efficient/dependable V6 w/ linear power-delivery, aluminum+composite in construction, reasonable to own/run & maintain-service, advanced electronics (torque-vectoring, brake-steer, launch/traction/suspension controls, H.U.D., WiFi & data/telemetry display), performance parameters of ~3.75s or less 0-60mph, ~11.5s 1/4mile, ~175mph+ topspeed, SH-AWD w/ KERS, CVT hybrid, ~3,000 lbs. weight (even under ~3,200 lbs. would be grear), uber-lite version of Acura's Power Plenum design/styling philosophy, and a sticker of ~$100k to ~$125k... I'm game!

I personally could care less if it was 350hp, 450hp, 550hp IF it accomplished all of the aforementioned. T-&-T (torque & traction) matter to me more than HP which is tooted for bench-racing & high-end/topspeed. Practical & usable performance metrics being fulfilled are all that matter to me. . .

Ok if you really look at what's in your pay to play the two that match the NSX are The Boxster and Evora. V6 aluminum just add awd and batteries. I'm still not seeing what justifies $100k+? The Porsche at least has the DM vs the dollar and it's still in the $60's.

I agree with Honcho $75-100k. How much do you guys think the new tech is going to raise the price of the RL , TL and MDX.

Acuras new slogan is "Smart Luxury" Please tell me what's smart about a V6 hybrid at $100k+. Seriously! We've all heard their ad's about value for the money. Not seeing it. I don't want a cheap car but if your eliminating the yen what's taking this car over $100k

 

[liftcontrol]

Re: point-of-references...

The non-MVA pre-TTL MSRP for a '91 NSX was ~$60k. A well-equipped 1st model-year mid-model-change gen-4 '91 Accord was ~$15k, a moderately-equipped 1st model-year gen-2 '91 Legend was ~$30k.

In 2005 (w/ regards to MSRP's), the NSX-T was ~$90k, a well-equipped Accord was ~$22.5k, a moderately-equipped RL was ~$45k.

Fast-forward if you will to model-year 2014 w/ availability mid/latter 2013 (based on 2011/2012 pricing), this is what seems likely:

~$100k+ NSX-2.0
~$25k+ Accord 9th gen. (well-equipped)
~$50k+ RL 3rd gen. (moderately-equipped)

... and none of all that really matters now, it was just to give perspective.

Personally speaking, I see the forthcoming NSX-2.0 being no less than ~$100k & no more than ~$125k. If it can deliver 9/10 of the overall experience & all-around performance of the 458 Italia, Gallardo, MP4-12C, sign me up! Tho'- there is an uncomfortable feeling in me w/ some realness to the reality that it may be ~$150k+ (or even ~$125k to ~$150k) of which would make me "meh" unless it was out-of-this-world special (to me).

Some have pegged the USDM Nissan GT-R price-point (USD). The R-35 may only be ~$85k, but you're getting a ~$25k car w/ a ~$60k power-train/drive-train. It ain't called Godzilla for no reason!

FWIW, the pay-to-play is:

~$65k+ Cayman
~$75k+ Evora
~$80k+ C6 Z06
~$85k+ GT-R
~$100k+ 911 Carrera
~$110k+ C6 ZR1
~$125k+ 911 GT3
~$135k+ R8 V8
~$150k+ 911 Turbo
~$165k+ R8 V10
~$200k+ SLS AMG
~$225k+ Gallardo
~$250k+ 458 Italia
~$250k+ MP4-12C


Assuming the NSX-2.0 is of an exotic form-factor along w/ a (rear) mid-engine, upward-opening doors (please, please Honda! ), high-revving & efficient/dependable V6 w/ linear power-delivery, aluminum+composite in construction, reasonable to own/run & maintain-service, advanced electronics (torque-vectoring, brake-steer, launch/traction/suspension controls, H.U.D., WiFi & data/telemetry display), performance parameters of ~3.75s or less 0-60mph, ~11.5s 1/4mile, ~175mph+ topspeed, SH-AWD w/ KERS, CVT hybrid, ~3,000 lbs. weight (even under ~3,200 lbs. would be grear), uber-lite version of Acura's Power Plenum design/styling philosophy, and a sticker of ~$100k to ~$125k... I'm game!

I personally could care less if it was 350hp, 450hp, 550hp IF it accomplished all of the aforementioned. T-&-T (torque & traction) matter to me more than HP which is tooted for bench-racing & high-end/topspeed. Practical & usable performance metrics being fulfilled are all that matter to me. . .

I love your energy and enthusiasm!
Let's hope HONDA does not under deliver on the performance and over charge for the car. For me personally, it would have to be priced at least $20k less than the R8-V8 with equal or better performance and quality, for me to bite.

 

[liftcontrol]

Re: point-of-references...

Acuras new slogan is "Smart Luxury" Please tell me what's smart about a V6 hybrid at $100k+. Seriously! We've all heard their ad's about value for the money. Not seeing it. I don't want a cheap car but if your eliminating the yen what's taking this car over $100k

I think Honda is going to look at the prices of the R8-V8; the GTR; the 911 Turbo [and hopefully not the LFA] and price the car so that it is higher than the GTR and lower than the two Germans. If they get too close to the 911T or the R8, they will lose some customers who would just rather have a German car, irrespective of the performance or the reliability etc. It will be hard for some [likely many] who can afford to pay over $100k to actually pay over $100k for a Honda/Acura when they can get a German car. If Honda loses touch with that fact, we will see poor sales of the NSX 2.0 no matter how good it is, especially if it has a V6.

Honda needs to have learned by now the real reason their fine RL cannot compete in terms of sales with the Lexus or Infiniti top-end sedans.....it has a 6 cylinder...no matter how good it is ....no matter how fuel efficient and light it is!!! What will it take Honda to get this through their proud, arrogant heads!

 

[captngaryr]

Gary (captngaryr) is in East Greenwich, RI. He owns a nice '03 Silverstone.

Yup! I'm here!:biggrin:
Gary

 

[captngaryr]

Considering the new NSX will be designed and built in the good old US of A (not Germany or Japan) you should be considering the price of a Corvette when estimating the price point. I say $100K is about right. Perhaps we should start a Prime Lottery. 20 bucks a head to enter. Prime takes 20% off the top to cover expenses. :biggrin:

Gary

 

[Honcho]

I think Honda is going to look at the prices of the R8-V8; the GTR; the 911 Turbo [and hopefully not the LFA] and price the car so that it is higher than the GTR and lower than the two Germans.

Ding ding ding!

Considering the new NSX will be designed and built in the good old US of A (not Germany or Japan) you should be considering the price of a Corvette when estimating the price point.

Ding ding ding!

The market space will be slightly higher than the Z06 and GT-R but significantly lower than the R8-V8 and 911 Turbo. Like I said, $75k-$100k.

My personal prediction is $90,500 MSRP.

A steak dinner in Denver awaits anyone who wants to bet me. Price is Right style- closest to the price without going over wins.

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

Don't forget the the additional $50K+ dealer mark-up.