Love Fab Vs Ctsc

[Bob Kenney]

Thanks Bob! I appreciate you input and I need a ride in your car soon. You live pretty close for me not to have done that yet.

Joe

Joe you are welcome to come over anytime. The weather, at the present time, is little nasty for a test ride, unless you are Woody driving his All Weather 493 RWHP NSX.:wink:

I am in the process of changing clutches, switching engines and making a few additional modification; but by spring time we should ready to go. If you want to talk through any of this give me a call: 773-559-8094.

Frank and I are talking about an NSX get together for mid February, all are invited, we will keep you informed. :biggrin:

 

[BioBanker]

Sure Bob - no doubt turbo wins for max hp.

I wonder how much different the experience is between the two if you maintain stock internals; no doubt the turbo offers greater potential, but if you're not doing internals, how much different is a 420 whp turbo and a 420 whp supercharged NSX?

To me, that is the biggest question to ask. If willing to mod internals, TURBO! If not you ask if you want your car tuned which decides between the base autorotor or a high boost autorotor/budget turbo.

 

[ChitownNSX]

That is the question here. Do I want turbo power making 400 whp or Superchaged power making 400 whp........

I guess I am going to hold off and wait till I can have a little seat time in each of them to see what is really going on with them. The CTSC is so tempting because it is buildable.

By that I mean I can buy the base system for say 8 grand and install it with out a hickup on my own.

From there I can build it to AEM-Exhaust-High Boost Kit intercooler..etc etc....

The turbo option is just PLUNK and there it is! That has its temptations as well!

Thanks guys for really working through this thought and decision with me. Everything that you have brought to the table is great to hear and has been helpful. I Very much appreciate it!

 

[Bob Kenney]

Sure Bob - no doubt turbo wins for max hp.

I wonder how much different the experience is between the two if you maintain stock internals; no doubt the turbo offers greater potential, but if you're not doing internals, how much different is a 420 whp turbo and a 420 whp supercharged NSX?

To me, that is the biggest question to ask. If willing to mod internals, TURBO! If not you ask if you want your car tuned which decides between the base autorotor or a high boost autorotor/budget turbo.

Dave,

Thanks for sharing your weather with us here in Chicago; which is now seeming like "The Great White North". I can't wait for spring.:biggrin:

We all agree that turbos make big #s and I am as impressed as I can be with Woody's NSX's drivabilty and dependability but I am still an SC Type.

I like and understand SCs and to your point; I am more comfortable with the SC than a turbo. That is just me; I, like you, would prefer 420 WHP from an SC compared to 420 WHP from a turbo. You and I probably like the same kind of beer [:wink:] and I would like to pour you a few as we pursued this conversation.

As is being proved out now, I am not above doing extensive internal engine modification in search of "MORE" DEPENDABLE HP. As you well know: "More is Never Enough" for any of us in the FI Brotherhood. It is a kind of addiction and whether your drug of choice is "spray, turbo or SC" to give each of us our unique HIGH [HP].

Here is to ALL of US on the eternal quest for More :biggrin:

 

[BioBanker]

tell me about it Bob!

I will tell you what, you come to the NSX Club of Canada's Est Fest this spring and you can have all the AWESOME beer that you can pour into yourself. Seriously, its going to be anawesome long weekend and I anticipate about 40ish cars, prob half from US.

Come to that and we can discuss this ad nauseum. Then we can enjoy Cubans!

All NSXCA members are invited!

 

[ChitownNSX]

Ohhh Cubans!

Im soo in! Never been over the boarder before!

 

[Bob Kenney]

tell me about it Bob!

I will tell you what, you come to the NSX Club of Canada's Est Fest this spring and you can have all the AWESOME beer that you can pour into yourself. Seriously, its going to be anawesome long weekend and I anticipate about 40ish cars, prob half from US.

Come to that and we can discuss ad nauseum this. Then we can enjoy Cubans!

All NSXCA members are invited!

Dave,

THANKS for the invite!!

Please send details and I will see what I can do.:biggrin:

 

[BioBanker]

Here you go!

This is going to be an amazing event! It would be great to see FI come out, too.

More detail in THIS THREAD, but Larry Bastanza is coming for the weekend and will do a tech session. We have an incredible drive planned. BEER. CUBANS. Its going to be a complete riot.

This is an NSX Club of Canada event, but we want as many NSXCA members out as possible too!

Send an email to me at [email protected] with this info:

Name
Guest name
Address
Home phone
Cell phone
NSX Year
color NSX

And book your hotel! We are nearing our max rooms already.

 

[NetViper]

I think the Stock internal question is the best one. Which will hold up better at 400rwhp -- the CTSC or a turbo? Which will cause more ware on the internals and the other elemetns like drivetrain, tranny etc... The turbo makes a lot more low end TQ. How does that affect the reliability of the parts?

 

[DRZZZ]

I own a CTSCed NSX, it is a 92 using the Whipple SC. I have ridden in both Cody's and Woody's cars and just want to state for the record: "There is NO COMPARISON, when speaking of HP output". These turbos are FAR more powerful than than my SCed car on its best day.

Sure Bob - no doubt turbo wins for max hp.

I wonder how much different the experience is between the two if you maintain stock internals; no doubt the turbo offers greater potential, but if you're not doing internals, how much different is a 420 whp turbo and a 420 whp supercharged NSX?

To me, that is the biggest question to ask. If willing to mod internals, TURBO! If not you ask if you want your car tuned which decides between the base autorotor or a high boost autorotor/budget turbo.

Can't agree more with both of you guys. After rides in both Cody and Woody's cars, they will absolutely blow away my CTSC'd car ! Badly . It is (probably) important to note that they both have built engines. I have never been in a stock turbo'd car to compare it to mine. Anyone have one in the Chicago area?

I also wonder if anyone has used the AEM FIC (locally) on their CTSC to "up the ante"....

 

[Elite]

I think the Stock internal question is the best one. Which will hold up better at 400rwhp -- the CTSC or a turbo? Which will cause more ware on the internals and the other elemetns like drivetrain, tranny etc... The turbo makes a lot more low end TQ. How does that affect the reliability of the parts?

Considering the much higher IAT's of the CTSC, I'd think a properly set up turbo would be much nicer to the motor. The added torque, or the torque difference between the two types of systems isn't going to be the leading factor in engine degradation.

About the drive train, neither will have more or less effect. It comes down to the user and how much they abuse/use the car.

 

[TURBO2GO]

While HP makes a car fast, what makes it feel fast is torque. I used to just barely goose my V12 Mercedes 600 and without even going fast, you could feel the abundance of torque ready to launch you. In my 600 HP Supra I could be driving calmly at 3500 RPMs in 4th gear, barely get into the throttle and as that turbo started to spool, you could just feel power ready to be unleashed. This is very hard to describe... torque has an addicting quality. What you guys are experiencing with the turbo cars is a lot of torque. It is generally higher than the SC motor, especially the twin screw that has a very smooth power band. It never "hits" like a turbo that just decided to come online. The faster car around a track may not even be the turbo, and in my opinion won't be if the power was equal. But even with equal power, the extra torque and the way the power is delivered with the turbo will make it feel faster. If you guys ever get a chance to be a passenger in a Twin Turbo Mercedes V12, do it. I have been in a Renntech CL65 that was putting out 1000 Nm of torque. I think that translates to 740+ lb/ft.

It is so funny to have 4 passengers in a heavy car feel torque in their stomach when the engine is only at 3K RPM's. It seems all quiet and serene, but our butts are sinking into the seats. Hard.

 

[TURBO2GO]

Considering the much higher IAT's of the CTSC, I'd think a properly set up turbo would be much nicer to the motor.

Considering how many CTSC'ed NSX's have ran on tracks with 100+K miles on the motors, I don't think the engine is minding the higher AIT's. It is probably costing power, and yes, I think cooler is always better... but the conservative output of the CTSC seems to keep things in check. I wouldn't want those AIT's at 600 HP, but at 330-370 it seems fine. Still, if someone makes a nice production intercooler I will buy one.

I think like Bio I would do the:

intercooler/Injector/FIC/Pump/Pulley. I will bet that will be good for at least 50 more HP pushing the autorotor well over 400. And with lower AIT's and more accurate management it should be very reliable.

 

[Elite]

Considering how many CTSC'ed NSX's have ran on tracks with 100+K miles on the motors, I don't think the engine is minding the higher AIT's. It is probably costing power, and yes, I think cooler is always better... but the conservative output of the CTSC seems to keep things in check. I wouldn't want those AIT's at 600 HP, but at 330-370 it seems fine. Still, if someone makes a nice production intercooler I will buy one.

I think like Bio I would do the:

intercooler/Injector/FIC/Pump/Pulley. I will bet that will be good for at least 50 more HP pushing the autorotor well over 400. And with lower AIT's and more accurate management it should be very reliable.

I agree, but at 400ish whp the IAT's(non intercooled as nothing is available yet) become very scary. And it seems like that is the mark he is trying to hit(get close to).

 

[nathan]

You have a 2003, so the base line is strong to begin with. I witness few 2002 plus NSX with CTSC dyno'd above 390 with out AEM at Autowave last year. CTSC will be fine and it is a proven system. Just have to wait for Comptech to get back to business.

That is because you guys out in Cali are using those Super Duper Dynos :biggrin:

 

[nsxman2001]

This is just my opinion but after reading all this turbo Vs CTSC I think it all comes down to Money. If the Lovefab system was price the same as the CTSC and was intoduced to the nsx market the same time there would be a lot more of the lovefab turbo system installed. Most of us want to go the safe route because they know the pool of buyers are slim on a turbo car. Lets face the real issue this system has not been out as long as the supercharger. I have the CTSC but I got my car with this system installed already if I was going to spend my money it would be on the budget lovefab system because I perfer hard acceleration but like I said this my 02 cents..

happy motoring

 

[TURBO2GO]

I agree, but at 400ish whp the IAT's(non intercooled as nothing is available yet) become very scary. And it seems like that is the mark he is trying to hit(get close to).

Right... but someone will soon make an intercooler. That with the FIC should allow very safe boosting on a CTSC and get 400. You see I already have given into the fact that I have another few thousand dollars missing from my bank account for this.

 

[BioBanker]

Im thinking that Im doing the above Dave. Just have to figure out what Im doing for tuning and talk to Shad re an IC. Cody's 7 hrs away which means a 3 day ordeal. Id need COLD tuning too, so that means that Id need a few visits to him; unsure if that is dooable for me.

 

[titaniumdave]

Bolt up CT aftercooler plates are only a couple of months away. Should be a 'not to painful' set up. Shad has gotten very impressive results!

For cold tuning, I am slowly working on a boost controller that can tie to intake temps to keep the boost very low during cold temps, might be able to 'step the boost' as temps rise too. This is geared toward the 'Autorotor, stock ECU setup' but should be an easy bolt up control for any high boost application. Hope is to have the car run the standard maps but limit boost when IT are low so the tuning map can be simpler, just run the timing and fuel normally but the boost never builds. Might save you some trips for tuning Dave!

 

[TURBO2GO]

How useful is this forum and people like Titanium Dave...

Dave I gotta tell you between your brake setup, your harness bar and now this... you are invaluable. If I was not sinking money into another pit currently I would have bought all three from you already. You do an awesome job and I am very happy to have you here.

More power come this summer! yeah baby!!!

 

[Bob Kenney]

Can't agree more with both of you guys. After rides in both Cody and Woody's cars, they will absolutely blow away my CTSC'd car ! Badly . It is (probably) important to note that they both have built engines. I have never been in a stock turbo'd car to compare it to mine. Anyone have one in the Chicago area?

I also wonder if anyone has used the AEM FIC (locally) on their CTSC to "up the ante"....

Dave,

I have an AEM, water injection, and a lift on its way for the garage. :biggrin: Give me a call for details.

 

[RON98]

Bolt up CT aftercooler plates are only a couple of months away. Should be a 'not to painful' set up. Shad has gotten very impressive results!

For cold tuning, I am slowly working on a boost controller that can tie to intake temps to keep the boost very low during cold temps, might be able to 'step the boost' as temps rise too. This is geared toward the 'Autorotor, stock ECU setup' but should be an easy bolt up control for any high boost application. Hope is to have the car run the standard maps but limit boost when IT are low so the tuning map can be simpler, just run the timing and fuel normally but the boost never builds. Might save you some trips for tuning Dave!

nice,

about time.

always had quams wiht the SC since it was not aftercooled.

hot air cant be good for tuning & power and dumping in fuel is not an acceptable solution.

looking foward to more info.

 

[BioBanker]

Dave,

I have an AEM, water injection, and a lift on its way for the garage. :biggrin: Give me a call for details.

Well my lift guy came last weekend to see how I can stuff a 4 poster into my tiny two car central Toronto garage. Cant be done. It would take up ALL of the space that isnt occupied by either of the cars. The wife's walk to and from the street parking infront of the house is going to cost me plenty of large diamonds!

Whats the thought on water injection versus one of these looming intercoolers? Equivalent cooling? When I run out of water can I put vodka, gin or beer in there instead?

 

[WOODY]

If I were CTSC I would certainly look hard at the water Injection, especially if running full AEM ECU as it can control the injection as well. $500 plus large 5 gallon trunk reservoir that needs to filled once a year vs what ever the cost ( my old BBSC intercooler set up cost over $2000)for an intercooler/plumbing/exchanger and installation will cost seems like a no brainer to me.

 

[BioBanker]

Do you need the full AEM to run water? What about the FIC?