Mark Basch superchargers (my opinion)

[MYNSX]

I am totally happy w/ my investment.I have used Paxton.(never a
problem)/Vortec(3times)(always a problem)yes I should have learned the 1st 2 times/
Pro-charger(awesome performance and reliability)/ Nitrous and in my opinion my BBSC is solid,responsive,so
far reliable,powerful and customer service that Mark himself has provided "exeeded my expectations".
When is the last time your manufacturer has "personally" came to your home to insure "you" were
happy.We'll in my eyes talk is cheap and here in AZ we are plagued w/ incompotance and worse "most"
customer service to put it plainly SUCKS.It is a wonderful gift to have Mark in my home town as well as
involved in the cars that I find to be the most attactive to me currently.
Some people fold under pressure some focus.
Mark focuses.PERIOD!. I can count on one hand people in a skilled trade that I trust there expertise as
well as their personal and business integrity. Mark is one of them as well as Jane.I have witnessed
personally many people who did NOT pass this test.No I am not saying Mark or BBSC is "perfect" what I am
saying is
I BELIEVE WHAT I SEE!!. And I wish Mark and Jane happiness and prosperity and thank you for many times
over proving that there will be no excuses striving for exellence.Keep it up.
Bill in AZ w/ MYNSX (x 2)

 

[4AU4LIFE]

I second that motion. I was honered to have this 'Legend' work on my car while down in Orlando for the Basch Party. He took the time to explain anything/everything to me that I wanted to talk about despite having worked all day and night. It was about 8:30 when I arrived from Jax, and raining on top of that. The only thing I regret is not getting to go on a test ride with him to see him wring the car out. I am sure that I take it easy on it considering what it is capable.
Anyway I will go for now but just had to put in my $.02 about MB also.


------------------
ALL NSX
92 RED/BLACK 5-SPEED

 

[Chuck]

I was one of the "road trip" beta installs. The first (beside Nick) with an OBDII car using the SS box. Like most new software, it wasn't bug free at first. After installing a new software program in July, and going to two track events since that new software install, I must say I got my moneys worth. In my most recent event, one of the more telling moments were not so much me passing two Vipers, but pulling away from them on the straights. I know exit speed has alot to do with that, but I also realize I now have power on the track that I wished I had before the install. I may have had doubts right after install, but the new software has done wonders. Now I can't wait for the BOV.

 

[MYNSX]

Originally posted by Chuck:
I was one of the "road trip" beta installs. The first (beside Nick) with an OBDII car using the SS box. Like most new software, it wasn't bug free at first. After installing a new software program in July, and going to two track events since that new software install, I must say I got my moneys worth. In my most recent event, one of the more telling moments were not so much me passing two Vipers, but pulling away from them on the straights. I know exit speed has alot to do with that, but I also realize I now have power on the track that I wished I had before the install. I may have had doubts right after install, but the new software has done wonders. Now I can't wait for the BOV.

BOV????????
Bill in AZ w/ MYNSX

 

[Chuck]

Blow off valve. Will allow the use of a smaller pully, thus bringing on boost sooner and still maintain the 6psi at redline.
Or maybe it should be called a wastegate?

[This message has been edited by Chuck (edited 01 September 2002).]

 

[MYNSX]

Dahhh...
You were right as I understand it (although I could be wrong)Blow off valve is correct.
We had a monster one on the drag car.

Waste gate may be a shared term but my impression was waste gate was for turbo'd cars.Like I said I could be wrong.
Bill in AZ w MYNSX x2

 

[NSXTech]

Originally posted by MYNSX:
Dahhh...
You were right as I understand it (although I could be wrong)Blow off valve is correct.
We had a monster one on the drag car.

Waste gate may be a shared term but my impression was waste gate was for turbo'd cars.Like I said I could be wrong.
Bill in AZ w MYNSX x2

A wastegate works by diverting exhaust gasses (when no boost is wanted / usable) before it even spools up the turbocharger so boost never develops in the first place.
Since a supercharger is always making boost (belt driven) you must divert, or "blow off" boost when it is not wanted or neede such as cruise or idle.
The new BOV everyone is talking about is a totally new devise that we built which allows a smaller pulley to be used to make more boost sooner, but then "blows off" everything over a preset amount. The original design was adjustable, but that proved to be a little less than 100 % predictable/repeatable. The new design, which is being tested this week on Nick's car, uses replacable pistons to select the amount of boost you want to limit to.
I hate puns, but this new product will "blow away" the market place for forced induction.

Stay Tuned (pun spelled backwards is 'nup', and that's quite e-nup out of me)

Must be the coffee.
MB

 

[Chuck]

Originally posted by NSXTech:
Stay Tuned (pun spelled backwards is 'nup', and that's quite e-nup out of me)
Must be the coffee.
MB

Glad to see you haven't lost your sense of humor during your very busy time

.

 

[MYNSX]

Good ,we would like an intercooler and BOV to go please,
with room for creamer please!!
MYNSX in 115 degree weather!!!

 

[true]

Originally posted by NSXTech:
The new BOV everyone is talking about is a totally new devise that we built which allows a smaller pulley to be used to make more boost sooner, but then "blows off" everything over a preset amount. The original design was adjustable, but that proved to be a little less than 100 % predictable/repeatable. The new design, which is being tested this week on Nick's car, uses replacable pistons to select the amount of boost you want to limit to.
I hate puns, but this new product will "blow away" the market place for forced induction.

Hrm, if you want to clear up the confusion about your new bypass valve, definetly DON'T call it a blow off valve(BOV). Blow off valve already have a very well known function on turbo cars.

Also, the new unit you are developing that is going to 'blow away' the FI marketplace as you describe it....is actually called a pop-off valve. Hope this helps, Thanks.


------------------
jack of all trades, master of some.


[This message has been edited by true (edited 03 September 2002).]

[This message has been edited by true (edited 05 September 2002).]

 

[sjs]

Well, if you want to get picky about it and go back to the early days, I think you'll find that the term wastegate meant (and generally still means) the device that controls max boost level. Some are at a fixed psi while others are adjustable, but they are all essentially intake pressure regulators.

Other terms have been applied to a device that opens when the throttle slams shut, relieving boost pressure so as not to stall the turbine. I have typically referred to that as a blow-off valve, but I think you'll find it is also called a dump valve and no doubt other things.

There are also compressor bypass valves, but that's another argument.

 

[Sig]

OK, "True" I have to know... What is your deal?
Why can't you have enough confidence in what you have to say that the in your face tone you often use can be left at the door?

I am sure Mark appreciates your genuine concern for what he should and should not call things.


[This message has been edited by Sig (edited 04 September 2002).]

 

[len3.8]

Originally posted by Sig:
OK, I have always used restraint when replying in threads when "True" posts, but now I have to know... What is your deal?
Why can't you have enough confidence in what you have to say that the in your face tone you often use can be left at the door.

I am sure Mark appreciates your genuine concern for what he should and should not call things.

[This message has been edited by Sig (edited 04 September 2002).]

Why is it that when a Good thread comes along
someone takes a post personal and turns it into a $itchfest. Geesh Mark is smart enough to ignore it , Steve explained it all in the post before this. Let him post what he wants,
maybe he did not mean it in the way you took it. I am learning from all the exchanges.
Believe it or not he brought up a point and
SJS explained a different side to it and if you didn't know now you do. Which was fact in my case.
Just chill, let the thread run for awhile.
The people with the knowledge will stay and post if you do.
OMSB (off my soap box)
Len

 

[Sig]

Len-
Step back and take a more pragmatic view of this forum. Many of the veterans of NSXprime, who have been around much longer than I, have started making comments lately about the quality of the board. Many related to the increase in negativity. This post, which seems to be the norm for True, embodies the basis for many of these complaints. I have never made such claims in the past and am no way trying to further an existing bias. Len, I am not sure how long you have read the forums, but I do see that you have only been registered for several months. (Btw, this is not intended as a soapbox statment but summary of what I have seen) My observations based on 2 years of activity and an additional 6 months of lurking, are that when I first came to NSXprime there was not one member who consistantly and blatantly interjected so much negativity into a constructive community. If you need further proof of how this effects NSXprime as a whole (i.e. why you too should care), look no further than recent actions by many of our members. There are now private forums popping up specifically to keep out said negativity. The byproduct of this is that all the good intentioned members don't have access to the level of information they once had.

So, I don't take comments said to Mark personally, but I sure do take the degradaion of this forum personally.. as should you. The last thing we need is a forum that evolves to a forum similar to the supra boards. Many of their best contributors don't even participate on their board anymore. If the same happened here, we will all be terribly dissappointed. Well, at least I would.

Ironically, as I alluded to in my first post, many of True's posts have merit. That is more than enough and quite welcome. Why must slaps be thrown in combination with good information.
"Do a search on google if you must"-from true's post. What is the purpose? This said to Mark Basch right after telling him what he should/should not call something. Suggest, "DON'T" demand is is a good manner. A suggestion has a much better chance of being received.
If this was an isolated comment, we could all dismiss it as missinterpretation. However, it is the usual not the exception. At the end of the day, I think even True cares about the quality of NSXprime. I think he can be a valueable contributor as well. Why not remove the negativity and help improve the atmosphere.

 

[true]

Originally posted by Sig:
OK, "True" I have to know... What is your deal?
Why can't you have enough confidence in what you have to say that the in your face tone you often use can be left at the door?

Sig????????? What? Why leave it at the door? It is genuine.....what do you mean enough confidence in what i say? I mean what more could you want me to do? Just agree with everything everyone (or just MB) says??

I am sure Mark appreciates your genuine concern for what he should and should not call things.

I hope he does appreciate my concern. Why do you attac me when I tried to respond/correct someone???? What should I say?? It's ok, we can have 2 completly different devices both named the same thing and that won't cause confusion because mark bacsh is making one of them?? It OBVIOUSLY confused MYNSX...but he basically agreed that its a bov because he will probably believe anything he says. And while i was on the topic of his design i might as well tell him what it is called so he noone else gets confused.

I was thinking last night that eventhough a pop-off valve and mark's device have the same basic function..it may work very differently. I was gonna come here and edit my post to ask him to post the technical details of the device if they were indeed different. But instead I see Sig whining about my trying to clear up some confusion. The SAME thing happened in "Got a ride in a Vortech Supercharger!! My impressions..." where i was trying to correct Sensei on basically the same thing...WHY DIDN'T YOU REPLY TO THAT ONE SIG? How lame is this getting that I have to worry about someone whining after I post? If MB would have said he was designing a pop-off valve for his supercharger system i would have been like awesome. But he used confusing terms and i tried to clear it up.

SjS: I don't think im getting picky at all..let's try and stay current.

Blow-off valve - releases pressure from charger pipes between shifts on a turbo

Wastegate - bleeds EXHAUST to regulate boost pressure

Pop-off Valve - bleeds BOOST from the intake charge to regulate boost pressure. It is basically a wastegate that wastes boost....same idea, but still very different then a wastegate..

I don't think its picky.

 

[true]

Originally posted by true:
Maybe he did not mean it in the way you took it. I am learning from all the exchanges.


Thanks len. No I did NOT mean it in the way he thinks.

Ironically, as I alluded to in my first post, many of True's posts have merit. That is more than enough and quite welcome. Why must slaps be thrown in combination with good information.
"Do a search on google if you must"-from true's post. What is the purpose? This said to Mark Basch right after telling him what he should/should not call something.

Sorry I offended you Sig, I think it's possible you are just reading my posts in the wrong manner. I am compulsive ; if someone posts something incorrect it needs to be corrected for the masses...and at this point if someone in the FI industry doesn't know what a pop-off valve is..he needs to go search about it plain and simple. Better then him asking me to explain it right? I'm not into buttered up posting..i like to tell it like it is.

I would love for MB to tell me I'm a moron and i have no idea what im talking about..and his device is 100% different then a pop-off and it REALLY is a BOV.....i just don't think it's gonna happen. If it did, i wouldn't stop posting or trying to help people understand...I would accept that I learned something new and not care for a second if I was made an example of cause i would have continued to qench my thirst for knowledge..


[This message has been edited by true (edited 04 September 2002).]


[This message has been edited by true (edited 04 September 2002).]

 

[Sig]

True-

I think you hit the nail on the head. What you did say has merit. The inclusion of undertones, is my point. Disagreement can/is healthy, nobody rejects that. It's all in the presentation. Enough on that.

To stay current as you said, I am actually interested in the discussion about the devices. Any thoughts, on why there would be issues with an "adjustable" pop-off valve?
What is the trade off in using the fixed position variety?

 

[true]

Originally posted by Sig:
True-

I think you hit the nail on the head. What you did say has merit. The inclusion of undertones, is my point. Disagreement can/is healthy, nobody rejects that. It's all in the presentation. Enough on that.

Yes, enough.

To stay current as you said, I am actually interested in the discussion about the devices. Any thoughts, on why there would be issues with an "adjustable" pop-off valve?
What is the trade off in using the fixed position variety?

You could absolutely have an adjustable pop-off valve. Generally it would have a screw or some other adjusting deviced that would either decrease or increase the spring pressure pushing against the diaphram. With more moving parts it obviously has more points of failure then a static spring'ed pop-off. Also, like Mark said when you are manually adjusting an uncalibrated device, the pressure release would not be as reliable as say a unit built specifically not to be adjusted. I do not know if you can easily use the same size valve to relief multiple pressure's though. Without doing any research if i was to design a system i think a great idea would be to make an adjustable pop-off would be to start with a static spring and use a boost selenoid to operate it. That way you could put even a 4lb setting in your pop-off and set your boost controller to 8lb's. Before 8lb's your pop-off would not see any vacuum or boost, but when the pressure reaches 8lb's the seloid switches the pressure source to the pop-off to open it. This way you could run 4,5,6,7,or 8 by adjusting your selenoid. (prefferable electronically from inside the cabin) This is fundamentally just an electronic boost controller hooked up to the boost bleed instead of a wastegate. This could definetly be designed, but like i said, im not sure if you could make it work with an off the shelf pop-off and an electronic boost controller...anyone else have any thoughts on that?

[This message has been edited by true (edited 04 September 2002).]

 

[MYNSX]

All I can say is "WOW"....
MYNSX x2

 

[Yellow Rose]

Originally posted by true:
Hrm, if you want to clear up the confusion about your new bypass valve, definetly DON'T call it a blow off valve(BOV). Blow off valve already have a very well known function on turbo cars.

True - for the BBSC application the BOV is still gonna be called a BOV. It may also be called a BOV in the turbo world, but this particular thread is NOT about turbos So up until the point where you got "sarcastic" with the tone of your post to correct semantics, nobody was confused with what BOV on this thread meant.

Right about now you are thinking of pointing me to MYNSX's post where he wrote "BOV????????", but could it be that perhaps he didn't know about the BBSC BOV? The reason I offer this suggestion is because the BBSC BOV is not for all BBSC applications. That is another reason that BOV in this thread is different from BOV on a turbo - turbos have *their* BOVs but not all BBSCs will have *their own* BOV.

Now who was it on this thread that said they would love to be called a moron?

Not slamming, just repeating your own words.

[This message has been edited by AndyVecsey (edited 04 September 2002).]

 

[true]

Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
Now who was it on this thread that said they would love to be called a moron?

Not slamming, just repeating your own words.

Thanks Andy, you did a great job.

NOT.

]
The reason I offer this suggestion is because the BBSC BOV is not for all BBSC applications. That is another reason that BOV in this thread is different from BOV on a turbo - turbos have *their* BOVs but not all BBSCs will have *their own* BOV.

I think this is the most confusing line written in this thread. haeha. He says he's gonna blow away the FI marketplace by releasing this....so that doesn't sound specific to the bbsc. Anyways, I still think it's confusing to call something the same thing as another with different functions. I have a crx and an nsx....well, it's *REALLY* an integra gsr, but for *MY* integra, i call it an NSX. :]

MYNSX, chuck, and I were confused in the begining..before that there was only a post by 92NSX..so 3 out of 4.

EDIT: I also just re-read a few posts...doh.

Originally posted by NSXtech:
A wastegate works by diverting exhaust gasses (when no boost is wanted / usable) before it even spools up the turbocharger so boost never develops in the first place.

Wow, this comment just amazed me. This is just plain wrong . That's not how it works. I dont want there to be a lot of people on the board that have an in-correct understanding of what wastegate really does.


[This message has been edited by true (edited 05 September 2002).]

 

[Yellow Rose]

True wrote: Wastegate - bleeds EXHAUST to regulate boost pressure.

NSXTech wrote: A wastegate works by diverting exhaust gasses (when no boost is wanted / usable) before it even spools up the turbocharger so boost never develops in the first place.

True wrote: Wow, this comment just amazed me. This is just plain wrong. That's not how it works. I don't want there to be a lot of people on the board that have an in-correct understanding of what wastegate really does.

**************

If one description says that the wastegate "bleeds exhaust" and the other description says the wastegate "diverts exhaust" then how are these different? In the turbo world, the wastegate is on the exhaust piping upstream of the turbo, right? If so, how are the two above descriptions different? Specifically, why does true call NSXTech's version as being "wrong" because of semantics, when the end result is the same - to limit boost.

 

[true]

Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
True wrote: Wastegate - bleeds EXHAUST to regulate boost pressure.

NSXTech wrote: A wastegate works by diverting exhaust gasses (when no boost is wanted / usable) before it even spools up the turbocharger so boost never develops in the first place.

True wrote: Wow, this comment just amazed me. This is just plain wrong. That's not how it works. I don't want there to be a lot of people on the board that have an in-correct understanding of what wastegate really does.

**************

If one description says that the wastegate "bleeds exhaust" and the other description says the wastegate "diverts exhaust" then how are these different? In the turbo world, the wastegate is on the exhaust piping upstream of the turbo, right? If so, how are the two above descriptions different? Specifically, why does true call NSXTech's version as being "wrong" because of semantics, when the end result is the same - to limit boost.

Andy, it's not the fact that it bleeds exhaust..cause it does. There is no argument that a wastegate diverts,expels, bleeds exhaust for controlling boost...and yes, it is upstream of the turbo.

when no boost is wanted / usable) before it even spools up the turbocharger so boost never develops in the first place.

That half of the statement is totally wrong. That's not what a wastegate is used for....
How is that limiting boost..sounds to me like it is eliminating boost.


[This message has been edited by true (edited 04 September 2002).]

 

[nsx1164]

Originally posted by AndyVecsey:
The reason I offer this suggestion is because the BBSC BOV is not for all BBSC applications.

...

not all BBSCs will have *their own* BOV.

Just curious -- why would someone who's spent their $6K+ or so + downtime + test-n-tune + ??? (all great fun I'm sure) NOT want the BOV (or lets call it the "high-boost-at-lower-rpm") option, particularly for improved STREET performance ??

The incremental cost/complexity is probably affordable, given the sunk cost.

Put another way, are there any special considerations for the BOV / hi-b-a-l-r versions -- requires headers, cat removal, etc... ??

 

[nsx1164]

Originally posted by Chuck:
I was one of the "road trip" beta installs. The first (beside Nick) with an OBDII car using the SS box.

IIRC, Chuck was also one of the first Zanardi NSX installs, and we know how those cars are "different".

Re: walking on Vipers at a track -- if this was Gingerman, I think exit speed and DRIVER SKILL have a lot to do with this.

But the BBSC certainly helps !!