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McLaren announces a Plugin Phev V6 NSX fighter

drmanny3

drmanny3

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As I and several others have mentioned the fact that our NSX is a Hybrid is a really big deal. A lot on this forum write that off as adding too much expense and weight. However, that is the bridge forward. Our car was the first affordable hybrid supercar. Now we will see the likes of Audi, Corvette, McLaren, and I suspect Porsche.https://www.automobilemag.com/news/...077A05B86FDB92126698C2D0FD72110AEB32DC6EC1713
 
Interesting have a feeling it won’t be cheap and probably be a test bed for the larger flagship car to come.
 
drmanny3 said:
that is the bridge forward. Our car was the first affordable hybrid supercar. Now we will see the likes of Audi, Corvette, McLaren, and I suspect Porsche.https://www.automobilemag.com/news/...077A05B86FDB92126698C2D0FD72110AEB32DC6EC1713
Click to expand...

drmanny, very prolific! Not many can see the future as Honda did. Porsche redesigned the 992 to accept battery packs so you know it's coming big time. I'm sure McLaren's history of quality control will not bode well but it will be fast. I wonder what the power train warranty will be? Corvette's faithfull will have a hard time excepting hybrid tech. Audi would means Lambo too.
Jimmy aka sled driver.
 
Droptopp said:
Interesting have a feeling it won’t be cheap and probably be a test bed for the larger flagship car to come.
Click to expand...

The article says it's replacing the sports series, so I'd expect it to start at $200K. With the way that McLaren options work, you're probably looking at at least $220K for a decently specced one.

The semi-usable electric range that the McLaren will supposedly have is appealing, but not for that price premium over an NSX.
 
Honda...ahead of the curve...
 
Make no mistake . Hybrid with heavy batteries in a sport car is a necessary evil brought on by manufacturers need to fulfill future mandates. Just because other exotic car makers make hybrids doesn't make it more desirable.. They need to do it to survive as a manufacturer. Unless you are tracking your car or flunting your wealth, the excess power is useless for the street. Ask Walter Rohl on how power is too much for the street.

Many including me would argue less HP in a lighter package is more entertaining than a tech heavy overweight modern NSX. Without question Gen 1 is a better car than Gen 2 because it is just more satisfying to drive and it is executed so well. Just because modern cars are faster doesn't make Gen 1 any less special nor desirable.

I get some drivers like outright speed and power. That's fine . But let's not celebrate a 3900 lbs sports cars packing gear to satisfy future mandates. So what if it can accelerate faster. So can a Tesla sedan.

The essence of a sports car for the street is fun to drive. The ability of the car to dance, powered by a sweet engine, and tactile feedback to the driver are the essence of that.

However, if you want a sports car for the track, perhaps the weight and complexity is OK because racing has shown hybrid power is faster. And you get to show main street you got the latest tech gear. But, in this segment, you lose the purity of the sports car.

For the same $158k price, I'd rather buy an NSX with a 9K revving NA 4.0 liter flat crank V8 at under 3500 lbs rather than the NSX we have now, even if it is fractionally slower.

When Honda lose some weight and ditch at least the 2 front motors, then I'll revisit my dealer and bring my check book. I don't want more power. Just ditch the weight.

Honda missed the target audience. It is selling a fraction of what they expected. Meanwhile, if you want to buy a GT3 or GT4, you will have to get in line and Porsche won't have to put $20K to $30K on the hood to move them.
 
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Silver F16 said:
Make no mistake . Hybrid with heavy batteries in a sport car is a necessary evil brought on by manufacturers need to fulfill future mandates. Just because other exotic car makers make hybrids doesn't make it more desirable.. They need to do it to survive as a manufacturer. Unless you are tracking your car or flunting your wealth, the excess power is useless for the street. Ask Walter Rohl on how power is too much for the street.

Many including me would argue less HP in a lighter package is more entertaining than a tech heavy overweight modern NSX. Without question Gen 1 is a better car than Gen 2 because it is just more satisfying to drive and it is executed so well. Just because modern cars are faster doesn't make Gen 1 any less special nor desirable.

I get some drivers like outright speed and power. That's fine . But let's not celebrate a 3900 lbs sports cars packing gear to satisfy future mandates. So what if it can accelerate faster. So can a Tesla sedan.

The essence of a sports car for the street is fun to drive. The ability of the car to dance, powered by a sweet engine, and tactile feedback to the driver are the essence of that.

However, if you want a sports car for the track, perhaps the weight and complexity is OK because racing has shown hybrid power is faster. And you get to show main street you got the latest tech gear. But, in this segment, you lose the purity of the sports car.

For the same $158k price, I'd rather buy an NSX with a 9K revving NA 4.0 liter flat crank V8 at under 3500 lbs rather than the NSX we have now, even if it is fractionally slower.

When Honda lose some weight and ditch at least the 2 front motors, then I'll revisit my dealer and bring my check book. I don't want more power. Just ditch the weight.

Honda missed the target audience. It is selling a fraction of what they expected. Meanwhile, if you want to buy a GT3 or GT4, you will have to get in line and Porsche won't have to put $20K to $30K on the hood to move them.
Click to expand...


there's always the ND miata ....


mc
 
True but that's too far on the end of that spectrum of too small. It is a very dynamic car a thrill to drive. NA1 was perfect. HSC would have continued that formula, even if they added single motor hybrid. But as humans we always want more so now we got NC1. 3 series used to be the best sports sedan. We wanted more and they gave us more. More leads to more weight. Now enthusiasts are drawn to the M2 because it is the spiritual successor to the E46 M3.

When something is good and desirable, don't change the formula. Just improve it. Adding 700 lbs and doubling the horsepower is changing the formula.
 
To give Honda some credit, at least they are offering something unique at its price point.

If you want a somewhat affordable sports car that's relatively light weight, has a manual transmission, and a high-revving naturally aspirated engine, you can go buy a Porsche Cayman GTS 4.0.

If you want a hybrid super car that's almost somewhat affordable, the NSX is it.

I understand where people would be disappointed that the new NSX is so different from the old one, but I can't really blame Honda for trying to offer something unique instead of going head-on against Porsche.
 
Can someone please explain to me the draw of McLaren? Aside from extreme styling (which I guess can make some people swoon), all they really seem to be known for is horrible build quality and awful customer service. I simply don't understand the appeal.
 
Way back many years ago, Honda/Acura started to experiment with their SH Super Handling hybrid system. It was destined for their flagship car. It is the kind of engineering prowess that Honda loves and believes in. Progress is the only mode forward at this point and time. Had the New NSX just been an updated car with only the race engine there would be people who complained that it needed an off-the-shelf engine. And if the car had come to market with an MDX engine, rear wheel drive, and was priced lower it would have been laughed away as looking good but not moving the needle. If Honda does anything, it wants to move the needle with the NSX. The Sales volume while a disappointment to some is not the only measure. I have to believe that internally Honda views the NSX as a SUCESSFUL and MILESTONE endeavor that elevates their standings in the automotive arena. I mean some companies only care about volume and others care about their product and their reputation. Consider for a moment that you have a car that can do 0 to 60 in 2.8 seconds but weighs over 3900 lbs. Do I hear any OMG that is extraordinary? How did they do it? Did they purchase a transmission from the universe of automotive suppliers? No, Honda developed internally their 9 speed dual clutch transmission. The 1st gear is low enough to allow the car to take off quickly combined with electric motors as well as a turbo charged race engine. They married everything together and added fairy dust and ended up with a 0 to 60 number that is really beyond most cars especially in that weight category. Let me hear a Halleluiah! No, I hear how come I can't put the transmission into 1st gear when I am only going 5 mph. There is a reason. In the automotive industry it is well understood that if you give the public a product they will test it in ways that it was never meant to operate. Honda's reputation depends on reliability. What I find kind of funny is that those who complain about the price could in fact purchase other cars. What they really want is to own an NSX and satisfy their immediate need to join the club. Well there is in fact the first generation 1990 to 1996 and then the 1997 to 2005.
 
DJ Iceman said:
Can someone please explain to me the draw of McLaren? Aside from extreme styling (which I guess can make some people swoon), all they really seem to be known for is horrible build quality and awful customer service. I simply don't understand the appeal.
Click to expand...
They have built some extraordinary cars for sure. I really don't understand their nomenclature on car models. You would never want to own one out of warranty.
 
DJ Iceman said:
Can someone please explain to me the draw of McLaren? Aside from extreme styling (which I guess can make some people swoon), all they really seem to be known for is horrible build quality and awful customer service. I simply don't understand the appeal.
Click to expand...

I'll give it a try

McLaren has emphasized performance (speed, driving dynamics) above all else
They use a carbon tub on all cars, lightness, rigidity and generally has allowed designs with solid visibility
They pump out a lot of models to give the latest greatest crowd the best pissing match cars
They build 1 more than market demand (i.e. you don't get the Ferrari store run around of buy this used one at a bad price and if you clean the bathroom for us you might get a build spot for the next cool model)
They are super willing to individualize and extract dollars in return (Ferrari mostly has this play but for some models not so much, LaFerrari for example didn't have a crapload of individualization)
I believe the dealerships are fine, it is corporate Mclaren that hoses customers when there are problems with the cars themselves

Some of the come back to earth points

As you mentioned their quality system is a comedy show
If something fails, your car may be out of service for a while waiting for part(s)
Small number of dealerships
They are not an engine builder (to me they lose some prestige on this, Riccardo builds all of their power units, tranny is also third party), plus up to the new V6, their motors are have all been reworks of the same Nissan racing engine design
They don't seem to care about resale value
 
There was the F1.........Brand..the wealthy don't view acura like they do Mac....you owners have very valid reasons to love what Honda has done, but soon the talking points will be shared by more at cars and coffee...I don't know what if anything that will do going forward to NC1 sales....maybe NC2 will be ahead of the curve...
 
Bricks and Bio said:
I'll give it a try

McLaren has emphasized performance (speed, driving dynamics) above all else
They use a carbon tub on all cars, lightness, rigidity and generally has allowed designs with solid visibility
They pump out a lot of models to give the latest greatest crowd the best pissing match cars
They build 1 more than market demand (i.e. you don't get the Ferrari store run around of buy this used one at a bad price and if you clean the bathroom for us you might get a build spot for the next cool model)
They are super willing to individualize and extract dollars in return (Ferrari mostly has this play but for some models not so much, LaFerrari for example didn't have a crapload of individualization)
I believe the dealerships are fine, it is corporate Mclaren that hoses customers when there are problems with the cars themselves

Some of the come back to earth points

As you mentioned their quality system is a comedy show
If something fails, your car may be out of service for a while waiting for part(s)
Small number of dealerships
They are not an engine builder (to me they lose some prestige on this, Riccardo builds all of their power units, tranny is also third party), plus up to the new V6, their motors are have all been reworks of the same Nissan racing engine design
They don't seem to care about resale value
Click to expand...

To be fair I actually like McLaren as a brand. They have actually hosted open test drives. Few years back I got invited to the 650s launch. Drove a 650s and another model. Sales people were super friendly and I even got gift bag with a hat. Compare that with visiting your local f car dealership.

The cars themselves are stunning performers and if money was no object I’d own one. But you could tell just by sitting in them that they are going to beak. And since I don’t have f u money. I’ll stick with my Honda.

MC
 
Bricks and Bio said:
I'll give it a try

McLaren has emphasized performance (speed, driving dynamics) above all else
They use a carbon tub on all cars, lightness, rigidity and generally has allowed designs with solid visibility
They pump out a lot of models to give the latest greatest crowd the best pissing match cars
They build 1 more than market demand (i.e. you don't get the Ferrari store run around of buy this used one at a bad price and if you clean the bathroom for us you might get a build spot for the next cool model)
They are super willing to individualize and extract dollars in return (Ferrari mostly has this play but for some models not so much, LaFerrari for example didn't have a crapload of individualization)
I believe the dealerships are fine, it is corporate Mclaren that hoses customers when there are problems with the cars themselves

Some of the come back to earth points

As you mentioned their quality system is a comedy show
If something fails, your car may be out of service for a while waiting for part(s)
Small number of dealerships
They are not an engine builder (to me they lose some prestige on this, Riccardo builds all of their power units, tranny is also third party), plus up to the new V6, their motors are have all been reworks of the same Nissan racing engine design
They don't seem to care about resale value
Click to expand...

The come back to earth points are due the " catalog engineering " used by McLaren; they just assemble a kit of parts supplied by vendors. The result of this is that final engineering of every vendor supplied part is constrained by their requirements and need to make a profit, every change to the spec of a vendor supplied part requires contract negotiation, and every warranty claim has to be settled with the vendor. All this headwind slows things down and increases cost. This is a big part of why McLaren has a long way to go before they are on the level of the American, Japanese, German, and Italian OEMS. At this point their Formula 1 history and brilliant marketing are what keep the cash register going ka-ching.
 
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.and they became the non Italian option in the over 200k midengine sportscar market ...seems there are enough folks who want to be different....and if you want to be super different there is NC1
 
.....and a large dealer network.......where I live that is the only option for convenience....
 
Bricks and Bio said:
I'll give it a try

McLaren has emphasized performance (speed, driving dynamics) above all else
They use a carbon tub on all cars, lightness, rigidity and generally has allowed designs with solid visibility
They pump out a lot of models to give the latest greatest crowd the best pissing match cars
They build 1 more than market demand (i.e. you don't get the Ferrari store run around of buy this used one at a bad price and if you clean the bathroom for us you might get a build spot for the next cool model)
They are super willing to individualize and extract dollars in return (Ferrari mostly has this play but for some models not so much, LaFerrari for example didn't have a crapload of individualization)
I believe the dealerships are fine, it is corporate Mclaren that hoses customers when there are problems with the cars themselves

Some of the come back to earth points

As you mentioned their quality system is a comedy show
If something fails, your car may be out of service for a while waiting for part(s)
Small number of dealerships
They are not an engine builder (to me they lose some prestige on this, Riccardo builds all of their power units, tranny is also third party), plus up to the new V6, their motors are have all been reworks of the same Nissan racing engine design
They don't seem to care about resale value
Click to expand...


very spot on in my experience.
 
Bricks and Bio said:
I'll give it a try

McLaren has emphasized performance (speed, driving dynamics) above all else
They use a carbon tub on all cars, lightness, rigidity and generally has allowed designs with solid visibility
They pump out a lot of models to give the latest greatest crowd the best pissing match cars
They build 1 more than market demand (i.e. you don't get the Ferrari store run around of buy this used one at a bad price and if you clean the bathroom for us you might get a build spot for the next cool model)
They are super willing to individualize and extract dollars in return (Ferrari mostly has this play but for some models not so much, LaFerrari for example didn't have a crapload of individualization)
I believe the dealerships are fine, it is corporate Mclaren that hoses customers when there are problems with the cars themselves

Some of the come back to earth points

As you mentioned their quality system is a comedy show
If something fails, your car may be out of service for a while waiting for part(s)
Small number of dealerships
They are not an engine builder (to me they lose some prestige on this, Riccardo builds all of their power units, tranny is also third party), plus up to the new V6, their motors are have all been reworks of the same Nissan racing engine design
They don't seem to care about resale value
Click to expand...
One of the guys in my car club was without his car for like 10 months while they tried to figure out what made his engine go kaboom. Fortunately it was under warranty, but 10 months?!

Yes, they make a lot of cars. Stupid fast cars. Same but slightly different cars.

I love the 670LT for the top exit exhausts. I love the Speedtail for the lines.

Back to the plug-in hybrid, hopefully this will encourage Acura to turn up the boost.
 
I love McLarens...as a rental or ultra short-term lease. They have amazing performance. I’d never own one. Awful depreciation, awful reliability, awful customer service, and for me the nearest dealers to Cleveland are Chicago and Philly. NO THANKS. I’d take a NC1 before a McLaren any day of the week...three dealers with new NSX techs in my metro, and if push came to shove on a road trip, I could McGyver something together at a Honda dealership.

McLaren needs to get their shiz together before I’d consider one.
 
exactly...Mac feels nothing with the tuning fork....:wink:
 
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