My first fishtail!

[NetViper]

I went a around a corner a little aggressive today and applied throttle and BAM, I was sideways. It was really simple to correct and I was surprised how well the NSX recovered. What a great car!! I love my NSX

------------------
1993 White NSX, 70K miles and running STRONG!

 

[kenjiMR]

Next time it might be safe testing your recovering skills on the racetrack.
I've spun (180) my NSX once on a public road by going in a bit fast and letting off the throttle... in that situation I actually had a good 20 feet to track out and should have throttled it to keep the car pointing straight, but hitting the outside curb made me chicken... I ended up spinning in towards the inner curb but luckily there was a company driveway where I would have hit the curb... I flew into the parking lot backwards! I got lucky... no more silly stuff on the streets now, only on the racetrack where you have a lot of runoff space.

 

[5inchfatlip]

How fast were you guys going before it happened? did the car feel stable? I havent really felt when the car would feel like it would let go or get sideways, just wondering if you guys felt the same way b4 it happened...

 

[huckster]

i lost the rear end running about 70-75 while cornering a long slow flat curve. i was surprised at how little warning i had. there is little to no body roll, the car feels like it sticks, and suddenly at almost the end of the curve, whammy. keep in mind that the rear tires were getting fairly thin, and i really had no idea of the nsx's limits, up until this point. i was accelerating into the corner(not hard), and she let go so quick that i didnt have time to recover, i just smashed the brakes.

luckily, i just spun on down the road and wound up backwards in the oncoming lane as if id meant to do that.

now ive been convinced that the nsx is NOT impervious to my obviously questionable driving skills and i cant wait to try pushing her on a real racetrack. one more of those 'but by the grace of god' experiences.

keep in mind, all of my really aggressive driving experience has been on bikes....so im not the best source of information.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by huckster:
i cant wait to try pushing her on a real racetrack.

Well, there's that event coming up in November...

[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 July 2002).]

 

[NetViper]

I was not really going very fast, maybe 20-25, but I punched the throttle and there was NO warning at all. It just went sideways. Thankfully, I used to drive a Ford Thunderbird SC (320lbs torque) and that car would go sideways ALL the time. I learned a lot with it.

Though it was fun, I think I will not try to do that again. I am looking forward to NSXPO though!

------------------
1993 White NSX, 70K miles and running STRONG!

 

[Zanardi 50]

Did any of you here had this happen while the TCS was on?

 

[NetViper]

TCS was on.

 

[Zanardi 50]

Whoa! I didn't know you can push the NSX into a spin that easily even with TCS on!

Thankfully, I've never had that happened to me yet, at least not pushing an oversteer into an all-out 180 spin (I hope I never will, not on public roads at least). The closest I've gotten was going sideways like about 75 degrees slip angle at last Canyon drive here in Socal twice while going lord knows how fast I was going on a 15 mph speed limit decreasing radius turn (In Japan I believe they call this type of driving "drifting"). In these 2 instances I applied the throttle a bit too abruptly trying to catch up to Dave (in his 94 Brooklands Green NSX-yummy!) who is IMHO a much more experienced and better driver than I. Thankfully, I was in the Zanardi and I also had the TCS on, so letting off the throttle gently and a quick precise countersteering got it back into its intended path. Had I done this without the TCS on it would've been less than perfect and could've been downright tragic, since the edge of the cliff was only a few feet away.

IMHO The NSX IS indeed extremely forgiving for an MR sports car, and probably more so than most FR cars that I've driven, and that includes the supposedly *better* handling Z06 (according to March Issue of Road and Track).



[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 13 July 2002).]

 

[Darkcyd]

TCS makes a huge difference. Lose grip with TCS on and you can just about kiss it goodbye. I was canyon running with 3 Supras and an S4, I had just overtaken and passed a Supra to take the front and with the all-wheel drive S4 tailing me, I throttled it up a long straightaway to pull away a lil bit. The all-wheel drive makes the S4 a cornering monster I tell ya. So going into a curve the backend broke loose with no warning and I spun around, running into the canyon wall... as opposed to going off the other side of the road which would be the cliff. =) I let go off the throttle when I lost traction and blipped the brake which is what lost it all for me. I know better now. =) Take the damn TCS OFF!!!

It also depends on your tires. I had Kumho's at the time and they gave no warning. Now I'm running Toyo's to try different kinds and they give pretty decent warning.

 

[Zanardi 50]

I've been hearing great things about Toyos from Si, and I'm looking into getting a set of them as soon as I'm done with the OEM Bridgestones. So here's my $1mil question: Which is stickier/better?

My wishlist for the next gen NSX:
1) AWD
2) Under 3000lbs.
3) 450HP at least
4) Hard-pulling N.A. V-8 (okay okay, V-6 is fine too, as long as it can crank out 450HP without F.I. for under $60,000)

 

[POWERED by HONDA]

Although AWD makes for monster in the corners, I don't think the next-gen NSX should be AWD... maybe as an option but not standard.

 

[nsxtasy]

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:
In these 2 instances I applied the throttle a bit too abruptly

One of the things you learn at the track is to be smooth, smooth, smooth. Smooth on and off the gas, smooth on and off the brakes, smooth with the wheel. The smoother you are, the faster you can go (without losing it).

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:
that includes the supposedly *better* handling Z06 (according to March Issue of Road and Track).

That article did not claim that the Z06 handles better. (It also did all its testing on a wet track.) There were three drivers, and each preferred a different one of the three cars being tested.

Originally posted by Darkcyd:
TCS makes a huge difference. Lose grip with TCS on and you can just about kiss it goodbye.

Sorry, but I disagree. IMO if you lose it with the TCS on, you almost certainly would have lost it with the TCS off, too. There are a few very specific circumstances in which TCS will make things worse, just as there are also quite a few in which TCS will help.

I always find it interesting how many drivers blame their incidents on the TCS, the tires, the compliance link, etc - everything except misjudgment by the nut that holds the steering wheel.

Originally posted by POWERED by HONDA:
Although AWD makes for monster in the corners,

...it also adds quite a bit of weight (typically several hundred pounds). If only for that reason alone, I would be hesitant to recommend it without reservations.


[This message has been edited by nsxtasy (edited 13 July 2002).]

 

[hejo]

Originally posted by nsxtasy:
One of the things you learn at the track is to be smooth, smooth, smooth. Smooth on the gas, smooth on the brakes, smooth on the wheel. The smoother you are, the faster you can go (without losing it).

I complete agree Ken. This is so important but most people don't think about it. The more power and faster you go the smoother you need to be. The next time F1 is on watch how some they are on the gas and on to the brakes. No stomping.

 

[5inchfatlip]

I've been to a few driving schools not in the NSX but a Rx7-TT, and the scary thing about the NSX is I dont feel like it WILL let loose, no body roll at all, and I dont hear the tires squirming, its real smooth and I feel I can go faster but get scared on some onramps I know real well.....on my setup the TCS is OFF, 18" all around, S03's, coilovers, and sway bars......I've got to find a real good place to learn it, not a cliff =)

 

[Darkcyd]

Actually, I agree with Ken. I was a little hurried when posting the above post and I think it didn't quite come out right. On clarification, TCS makes a huge difference... when racing/autocrossing. In tight turns you can keep the throttle high and not bog the engine, giving you better control in situations where u want the tail to loosen up a bit. TCS by itself is not going to be the cause of your misfortune, and I blame my prior incident on lefting off the throttle, misplacing the weight/balance of the car, and blipping the brake inducing full rotation. But I still think TCS should be turned off. =) At least if you're an 'active' driver.

 

[nsxtasy]

I agree that TCS should be turned off on the track when driven by an experienced track driver, where it may counteract any intentional throttle steer.

When driven on the track by a beginner, I think it is helpful to feel how the car is going to behave with switches (and equipment) as they normally are when driving on the street. Which means TCS on.

 

[Tom Larkins]

I would like to also add, NEVER TAKE YOU TCS OFF when you are driving aggresive, it can be your best advantage. One thing all of us need to consider is what type and/or where are you doing your driving. While i'm no pro driver and don't hold myself in any higher regard, 12 years of racing from karts open wheelers and sport sedans,I can't stress enough how important it is to be fluid when cornering anytype of car which was mentioned earlyer. Also consider this; you do not have the advanatages of running certain corners or differing radius turns as you would on a given track where a gradual progression takes place natually as your skill level increases with each lap and being familar with a turn. Now when it comes to the street, take into consideration tire wear, off camber turns and even temepture differences in a corner because you may go from sun light to shade w/cold tires. Even if you have been on the road for awhile, you just don't get the benifit of max preformance temp. build up on the street tires in certain instances because no consistancy exists do to traffic or extended straights. Just like that you have a snap-oversteer or the rear jumps out so quick you don't have the time to even react or crap in your pants. Prior preperation prevents poor preformance. Just my 2 yen worth and i'm just wondering when i'm gonna spin mine !

[This message has been edited by Tom Larkins (edited 14 July 2002).]

 

[MvM]

So far I've been lucky and have not spun yet (and am not trying to). However, at turnabouts I do like to give just a little extra throttle from time to time and then the car will wiggle the tail. Same goes for some corners that I know well. TCS never activates when I do that and I have a very hard time to get it doing anything. So much so that I once thought it was not working. Had to do some testing on a slippery surface to make sure it does. Unlike the TCS that I have seen on a Volvo S60T5 (won't let you do anything) TCS on the NSX seems to let you play around quite a bit.

 

[huckster]

yeah, that tcs sure let me play around, and aaarrrrrouuuuunnndd, and arrrrouuuuunnnnddd.

but then again, as nsxtasy said--i was that nut behind the steering wheel

 

[Sketch]

I have found that the TCS will engage at some times when I expect it to, but not others.

When I first got the car, it had some relatively cheap tires on it, and I could induce oversteer with the throttle in corners very easily, and the traction control never came on. I could also spin the tires in the rain without the car moving for at least a full second without the traction control coming on.

So far I've only had it engage twice, both after I put on a set of Yoko A022's. The first was at an autocross. I didn't turn off TCS because I thought it didn't work.

The course must have been designed by a Camaro driver, it had a cone near the end that you had to do a 180 around (or take wide and slow, but that's no fun

...and I wanted to find the limits of my new tires). The first time, I tried to slide the car and all I managed to do was to get it to wag the tail a little bit (it's a lot harder to induce oversteer on an NSX than a Fiero...). The second time, I actually slid the rear a bit...not quite as much as I wanted, but traction control came on, so I may be lucky I didn't manage to slide it more and not have enough power to regain traction in the proper direction.

The second time was on a left hand turn on a public road taken fairly fast, but not pushing the limits. The car felt perfectly stable when i hit the gas to accelerate as I was coming out of the corner, and noticed the lack of power and that the TCS had engaged.

Does this sound like normal TCS behavior?

Is a difference in speed between the front and rear axles the only thing that causes TCS to engage? And are there 2 sensors (1 per axle), or 4 (1 per wheel)?




[This message has been edited by Sketch (edited 20 July 2002).]

 

[Revs to 8]

I believe that BMW has the most impressive TCS system i've even seen in a vehicle. Individual brake controll at each corner and throttle limitations too. That goes on my NSX wishlist. Better TCS system.

And what tires will give a "decent" warning before traction loss on the X?

 

[Zanardi 50]

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:
In these 2 instances I applied the throttle a bit too abruptly

Reply from NSXTASY: One of the things you learn at the track is to be smooth, smooth, smooth. Smooth on and off the gas, smooth on and off the brakes, smooth with the wheel. The smoother you are, the faster you can go (without losing it).

---My only defense for such stupidity is that I was really tired the night previous for lack of decent sleep. I had less than 2 hrs. of it. If I was wide awake and not running on pure adrenaline alone, I wouldn't haved done something this stupid. The problems with the battery holding charge the night previous took away 3-4 hrs. of my sack time because I stayed up all night trying to fix it.

 

[Zanardi 50]

Originally posted by Zanardi 50:
that includes the supposedly *better* handling Z06 (according to March Issue of Road and Track).

Reply from NSXTACY:
That article did not claim that the Z06 handles better. (It also did all its testing on a wet track.) There were three drivers, and each preferred a different one of the three cars being tested.

---I totally agree. I knew that fact actually, hence the asterisks around the word 'better' (I'm just trying to be sarcastic

). The Z06 camp misinterpret the faster track times and 2 of 3 tester's comments on the NSX's looseness thru turn 4 and conclude from this that the Z06 is "better" handling car than the NSX, little knowing that handling means a great deal MORE than just lateral grip and better trap speed on the straights.




[This message has been edited by Zanardi 50 (edited 30 July 2002).]

 

[Zanardi 50]

Originally posted by POWERED by HONDA:
Although AWD makes for monster in the corners,

Reply from NSXTACY: ...it also adds quite a bit of weight (typically several hundred pounds). If only for that reason alone, I would be hesitant to recommend it without reservations.

Yep, I say at least a good 200-300 pounds. Honda should have 4wd option on the NSX for those that likes to have them, but with drastic measure to keep unsprung weight to a minimum. It would be nice NOT having to either push or fishtail thru corners when you lose it and waste lots of valuable time with all that extra motion trying to recover from it.