Need advice/opinions on rebuild of my built 3.0L

[Greg Z]

OK, this thread is stemmed off of this thread.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122716
I need this thread to focus on different options of the motor, thats why I am starting a fresh thread.

I took the car to the Acura Dealer in N. Houston. He put a camera in the spark plug hole and reported to me that the cylinder is destroyed. More specific he said the piston looks like it melted and the rings are destroyed and the Darton sleeve is heavily damaged and the head has damage including the exhaust valves. I am going to Houston tomorrow to take a look for myself and get more details. I will try to take pics and vid of the monitor showing the damage.

I'm not an engine rebuilder, but I do understand the basics. I realize I have to purchase a new sleeve and have it machined in, but what about the other parts?/? Like the bearings and stuff, does that need to be re-done? and what about the head? What all has to be done to get this back on the road. I am on a budget, so please keep that in consideration to the advice. In other words I can't just go buttnuts on a Stroker motor from SOS or anything that.

Heres are some of the basic specs of the motor

Bored Darton Sleeves
Block Guard
JE Forged Pistons
JE Rings
Sleeved Titanium Rods
ARP Main & Head Studs
ARP Rod Bolts
Rod Bushings
Comptech HV Oil Pump
Comptech SS Headers
Cylinder Heads Ported
Custom Valve Job
Complete Motor Balancing
RC 680cc Race Injectors
Denso Race Fuel Pump
High Flow Fuel Filter
Electromotive Fuel System
-Stand Alone System
-Laptop Controllable
Garrett Ballistic Turbo
Turbonetics Wastegate
HKS Blow Off Valve
Apexi Intercooler
Electric Intercooler Fans
SS Ceramic Coated Piping

 

[NetViper]

What about buying a used motor and running around 400rwhp instead of trying to fix the dead one. You might be able to sell parts and make a little money. Not sure what your goals were, or if you would be happy with that, but it is a good option. Used motor will run around $5,000.

Just thought I would throw that out there. Again, I am so sad to hear about this.

 

[Greg Z]

What about buying a used motor and running around 400rwhp instead of trying to fix the dead one. You might be able to sell parts and make a little money. Not sure what your goals were, or if you would be happy with that, but it is a good option. Used motor will run around $5,000.

Just thought I would throw that out there. Again, I am so sad to hear about this.

LOL, have you been talking to Scott (TXvsLV)???:biggrin: That is exactly what he said and guess what he happens to have for sale?:wink:


Problem is after I purchase the motor, then and R&R needs to happen. Tune. If I'm gonna spend 7k I mine as well spend that or a lil more and just rebuild the motor. Basically that is the purpose of this thread to see how much a money I will need to spend on the rebuild for my particular case, and to figure out if I should just put a stock used motor in or rebuild the built one.

 

[Big_D]

I am pretty sure that you need to have this motor completely torn down and inspected to get an idea what you are up against. Its possible that some debris from the destroyed piston has ruined the head, but untill you pull it you won't know for sure. Same thing goes for the bearings. I would also worry about the oil pump because its possible that some metal shavings could have been pumped throughout the oil system.

Best of Luck to you!

 

[socalx]

Greg,
I totally feel aweful about what has happened here. also you and i are within days of being the same age (i just turned 40 on saturday, so i feel like a kindred spirit and want to help )

I am just being direct, with no intent of being harsh but this is honestly how i see it.

a) you got in this position b/c you did not do the basics prior to getting on this car. (my first post in your other thread was to first get a compression and leakdown, get the car dynoed with a wideband to ensure a safe tune) ie do the basics before Buying yet alone driving a highly modified car.

b) you cant turn back the past, but we have to learn from it. What clearly needs to be done next is for the entire engine to be torn down and inspected? how are the other pistons (are they cracked on ring landings etc) how are the other cylinders (are they scored), how are the main bearnings? how is the crank, how are the heads, etc etc, trying to determine a) what other damage ocurred due to the failure b) what other wear exists in the engine?

I would totally hate to have you band aid back the broken cylinder only to have the engine fail for another reason and then spend more money again to repair and replace. Hopefully you have the complete engine disasembeled and inspected and find no other wear or damage and you need a new sleave and piston for that cylinder and are done. but without tearing it apart you are just gambling and any body else suggesting other then this is just guessing.

please keep us posted on the results, and ideally it is torn down and you find that you were right and the only damage is to the cylinder in question and then you can spend the money on fixing it knowing that you have hit the bottom and are moving in the right direction. (that is also the way to ensure that you don't spend more money then necessary)

Recently, a friend of mine noticed a "little smoke" coming from the back of his turboed nsx. when his engine was disasembeled we discovered that each piston had cracked ring landings (these were stock, not your high quality ones) and the solution in his case was a rebuild with rebuilt heads, new pistons and luckily he only had to have the cylinders honed. but again none of this was known until the engine was apart. He spend money only where necessary and knows that what was wrong was addressed, b/c the engine was taken apart and inspected.

 

[Greg Z]

Greg,
I

a) you got in this position b/c you did not do the basics prior to getting on this car. (my first post in your other thread was to first get a compression and leakdown, get the car dynoed with a wideband to ensure a safe tune) ie do the basics before Buying yet alone driving a highly modified car.

ed.

Well, you're right but in my defense I did do compression as soon as I walked up to the car. Hadn't even heard it run yet and I was doing a compression:biggrin:. It checked out tho.

 

[lightguy]

Hopefully its just the one cylinder and the heads and block are OK. One head may have to be replaced if damaged. Perhaps the timing belt stayed in sync.
I think you will be better off repairing/replacing what you have if so. All the parts listed are the right stuff. Replace the broken bits with the same.

If the whole motor grenaded then a used built one may be the way to go.

 

[docjohn]

No one is going to make you do this or that,so rather than tell you what to do I will tell you what I did for my motor #3.I had a 3.0 with the comptech IEM package,not a crazy mod but the valve train was not monitered closely enough and springs failed leading to valve float ruined piston ect.I was toying with doing a rebuild with a stroker,but I also wanted a worryfree car ....long story short I bought a used stock 33k mile 3.2L motor and have had no issues.Unless you have some really good engine builders with the right parts I would hesitate in trying to turn a burnt motor into a gem.BTW I still have the block and heads from my old engine that i ocasionaly talk to ...have tea with ....ect.

 

[4AU4LIFE]

~6yrs ago I had my engine rebuilt to OEM specs but used JE pistons and JE rings. Everything else was OEM. I also purchased a new oil pan/TB/WP which was included in this price of ~$9200.
I had the beta version BBSC that included the 1st gen SS box. It failed and took 4 pistons with it. The tech doing the repairs commented that he had never seen a stock NSX piston/rings do that before.
The rods were undamaged and were reused.

 

[ScienceofSpeed]

The first step would be to find the point of the failure and rectify it. If the piston is melted, you probably have a tuning or fuel delivery problem.

To fix the engine, the sleeves should be able to be machined .5-1mm over depending on the depth of the scoring. We offer custom made pistons that will allow you to do this. The head may be able to be fixed or may require replacing. We have used head sets in stock if you need. I saw the ARP main and rod bolts. I assume these journals were resized when they were installed?

Cheers,
-- Chris

 

[Big_D]

Saw this in the marketplace...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123327

 

[4AU4LIFE]

Saw this in the marketplace...

http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?t=123327

I was always under the impression that a 'long block' meant that the engine included the heads.
However, a 'short block' would not include the heads.
Just want to make sure I'm calling things by the proper name.

 

[Big_D]

I was always under the impression that a 'long block' meant that the engine included the heads.
However, a 'short block' would not include the heads.
Just want to make sure I'm calling things by the proper name.

I wondered the same thing. I agree with you a long block usually includes the heads.

 

[angus]

I agree that a stock motor with 400 or less hp is the best bet. You can build your motor again , but there are always thing that can go wrong in doing this.

 

[Alleykat]

Greg is your car at turbochargers here in Houston? My friend just txt me there is a red nsx there with a blown motor.

 

[96cxt]

I agree, stock motor making 400 to 450 whp is good enough. You gonna start breaking trannies and axles, going thru clutch etc.... you can make everything stronger but then you lose the driveability and you don't enjoy the car anymore.
Just my .02

But if you gonna build it get JE or CP pistons (dont know if CP offers them for the nsx). I am currently using CP on my 2.0L GSR motor and holding strong with 700+ whp. But this is not my daily driver and I put about maybe 3000 miles a year on it.

 

[Greg Z]

Greg is your car at turbochargers here in Houston? My friend just txt me there is a red nsx there with a blown motor.

yes:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[Greg Z]

I agree, stock motor making 400 to 450 whp is good enough. You gonna start breaking trannies and axles, going thru clutch etc....
Just my .02

blah blah blah:tongue:

J/K. You know I love ya Rayheem:smile:

But if you gonna build it get JE or CP pistons (dont know if CP offers them for the nsx). I am currently using CP on my 2.0L GSR motor and holding strong with 700+ whp. But this is not my daily driver and I put about maybe 3000 miles a year on it.

CP is what Turbochargers.com says he would like to use.:wink: