• Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.

New Best Motoring: Gallardo vs all (NSX-R)

Joined
22 September 2000
Messages
496
Location
Dallas TX
This will be brief, but I just wanted to get the discussion started for those who have seen the newest Best Motoring International release with the Lamborghini Gallardo being tested.

The highlight for me was the battle between the Gallardo, Murcielago, M3 CSL, 911 Turbo (Tiptronic), 360 Modena F1, and NSX-R. It was a great battle with Gan San in the NSX-R, as he nearly annihilated the opposition when it came to any part of the track that wasn't a straight. The NSX-R didn't have the power to compete with the Lambos overall in pulling power and straight speed, but it absolutely destroyed the other cars in the turns and braking zones. Granted Gan San may have had alot to do with it, but Takuya, and Nakaya aren't cream puffs to be taken lightly in the speed department.

I was really surpised at how well the NSX-R did with such a power deficit compared to the Lambos. And to boot it only got passed in the last quarter of the final lap, when the NSX-R started to over heat!

^_^
 
I know this has been discussed before and there had been some speculations...but does anyone think that the NSX-R's that BMI tests may have been "massaged" by Honda?

In the VTEC Club BMI DVD, Tsuchiya and Hattori mentioned and implied that Honda's PR/press fleet is known for being faster than the typical cars.

I think it's fantastic that the NSX-R does so well against Lambos and Ferraris, but a small part of me thinks that there might be more to those BMI NSX-R's than we know about. It's obvious that the NSX-R is down on power compared to those supercars when they're on the straights, but it's still somewhat hard to completely believe that the weight, handling, and balance of the NSX-R can make up for the more than 120hp or so it's missing when compared to those cars.

Then again, the tracks they test on don't appear to be super fast tracks so it's pefectly conceivable that the powerful cars don't get a chance to stretch their legs and show off their strengths.

Overall, it's just strange (and exciting even) to see Modenas and F355's get destroyed by the NSX-R.
 
I believed this one "battle" is taken place at Fuji instead of the "normal track" they do for other testings. However I rememebered there's a caption of Gan San's son said while he was going thur the corner behind Gan San and mumbling that "Dad, dad, what the hell are you doing? Didn't we agree not to drive on the curb??" Definately Gan San was giving 100% on the R and tried to used the curb to help steering on the car and used more road than the others...

Best Motoring drivers are all very good Pro drivers. But they all agree to drive the normal line to reflect the car's performance than doing some special racing technique to make the car faster... but whenever Gan San's behind, he's the frequent violator of the agreement...
 
That is TWICE the NSX-R has overheated in Best Motoring. Both right at the end. That is NOT good.:mad:

Also, the NSX desperately needs more HP. As soon as that track was straight the lambos FLEW by like it wasn't even moving. Give it another 75HP though and I think things would be different.

Great video though. Thanks for the link. I had never seen it.
 
NSXDreamer2 said:
I believed this one "battle" is taken place at Fuji instead of the "normal track" they do for other testings.

This video is not at Fugi. I have that DVD. NSX comes third. Same as this one.
 
Right, the Lambo battle is at Twin Ring Motegi.

The other battle where the Modena barely beat the NSX is the BMI "FujiFast" edition that took place at Fuji.
 
na14yu said:
Right, the Lambo battle is at Twin Ring Motegi.

The other battle where the Modena barely beat the NSX is the BMI "FujiFast" edition that took place at Fuji.

Yeah. The GT3 smoked the NSX-R. The 911 Turbo sure didn't do very well though!
 
na14yu said:
I know this has been discussed before and there had been some speculations...but does anyone think that the NSX-R's that BMI tests may have been "massaged" by Honda?

In the VTEC Club BMI DVD, Tsuchiya and Hattori mentioned and implied that Honda's PR/press fleet is known for being faster than the typical cars.

I had never heard that, but I guess it is possible. They would really have to "massage" it though to keep up with 500+HP lambos. It is pretty obvious how down on HP the NSX is compared to those cars.
 
Yeah, just about everyone smoked that 911 TT at Motegi :D

Like I said, it's just surprising to see some of the results. Especially being that the NSX-R is really based on a 14-year old car that's underpowered compared to it's battle competition. Now I sound like I'm bashing our cars :p
 
na14yu said:
I know this has been discussed before and there had been some speculations...but does anyone think that the NSX-R's that BMI tests may have been "massaged" by Honda?

In the VTEC Club BMI DVD, Tsuchiya and Hattori mentioned and implied that Honda's PR/press fleet is known for being faster than the typical cars.


The same does apply to the Ferraris, Porsches and Lamborghinis...

Everybody are playing the same game. Ferrari wnats to beat Lamborghini and so on...

Vicissitudes of public image and reputation...
 
What an incredible showing by the NSX-R!

That was great, thanx for posting it.


It doesn't surprise me at all that the NSX was setting the pace for those modern Lambo's. The NSX may have less power but it's using every bit of it to full usage as the other's fight there throttles.
As for the chassis, it may have been developed many years ago but it set the benchmark that the other's are just beginning to duplicate. It's still as state of the art as they come as the car was right there with the super powered, huge tired wonders.

Just incredible, who knows, if they did another lap and the NSX didn't have the technical problem , I bet the guy would have repassed the Lambo's.

Amazing how it outclassed the others as well, It made the Porche TT look like farm equiptment.

Mine was Twin Turbo for a while so I know how God-like they can be with more power but I have since returned it to stock and I have re-ajusted to it and am really enjoying the perfect balance of OEM. It's the best car, it's the "Cheetah" of the sports car world.

Spooler
 
Last edited:
Hehe. I've got the videos. There is also some test of the white Murcielargo doing donuts. The Gallardo is black colour. Now after watching I like the Gallardo better than the Murcielargo. One of the scene show that the driver have to get out of the Gallargo just to get the toll ticket (I think that's what it is). The car is just damn low. You have to love the Gallardo in black, just sleek and sexy. I wonder when I could afford to buy the Gallardo.:D
 
I rarely post over here anymore, but I have the DVD in question, and can offer some insight.

I own a '99 Targa, and I've spent some considerable time behind the wheel of a Gallardo lately. To me it really is a "second generation NSX" with AWD and a 500HP V10. When I got out of it, I felt as if the car could have a Honda badge on it, but with a large infusion of charachter that's hard to describe.

Fantastic torque throughout the rev range, a nice 8200rpm redline, wonderful exhaust note, even the e-Gear transmission was great. It's an excellent car, one of very few that the pure NSX-fan would find themselves right at home in.

Differances:

Visibility is GREAT for a Lambo, MEDIOCRE for an NSX. Not as bad as you'd think by looking at it, the mirrors are effective and the tank turret rear window is uncluttered. But it's not a greenhouse that's for sure. Got to pay for that sexy shape somehow, and visibility is part of the price.

Interior quality of materials isn't up to par for a $180k auto, most of the switchgear and HVAC controls are lifted from the Audi A4. That's not a problem in itself, I'm not some eliteist that bitches at the A4 gear, but the actual plastics that make up the controls aren't up to Honda levels. The interior color of the plastics is a dark grey, I prefer the matte black of our cars. That being said, everything works and the sound system is far superior to the NSX Bose unit.

The exhuast sound/tone is perfect. It's so good out of the box, hard to believe. Better than my car for sure, even though my NSX has a Comptech exhaust.

Steering feel, speed, turn-in, is almost identical. Funny enough, even though we're living in an era of 2.0 turns lock to lock in an S2000, or 2.6 turns lock to lock in a 360CS, the Gallardo comes with the same slow rack that our cars have, roughly 3.2 turns lock to lock. I would prefer it to be faster on both cars.

Acceleration isn't even close, the NSX gets blown into the weeds so fast that it's not even funny. When I get back into my car after driving the G, I literally have to tell myself that something isn't wrong with the NSX, the drop off in power is what you'd expect when losing 200HP. The Gallardo will hit 150MPH faster than a Viper SRT-10 to give you a practical example of how fast it really is. Here are some Car and Driver numbers, all performed with their optical measurement gear:

0-150MPH: CAR AND DRIVER RESULTS
21.4 - Gallardo
22.4 - Viper SRT-10
23.9 - 360 Challenge Stradale
26.3 - C6 Corvette
34.7 - 3.2L NSX Zanardi Coupe (July 1999)
45.1 - 3.0L NSX Coupe (May 1994)

I'm sure I don't need to tell anyone here that even a one second differance at those speed equates to a ton of car-lengths. You can feel it everytime you press the pedal in the G, it's VERY much like the NSX power delivery, just a lot more.

Sidenote: Anyone that thinks about contesting or bitching about the NSX numbers above, please check Prime's FAQ before opening your mouth and inserting your foot. Save it for someone who cares, I'm not here to debate why "you" think the numbers are wrong. It's a bitter pill to swallow I know, remember I'm an owner.

To sum up, the Gallardo really feels a lot like a 3.2L NSX in my opinion, which means that it DOESN'T feel as direct or linked to the road as the non-power assisted steering 3.0L NSXs, but it DOES feel an absolute $hitload faster in any circumstance (turns, straightline, braking, whatever).

I urge everyone to get out and test drive one for yourselves, I suspect some of the carping on the site for Honda to deliver an all-new NSX would die down a bit after the ride. It did for me. :)

MAKO

PS - I thought of one more thing. The tires on the Gallardo are Pirelli P-Zero Rosso units, which are fine, but by no means equal some of the exotic Japanese rubber that's available. It's the only weakness in the car's OEM gear to me, and ironically the BestMotoring drivers commented with words to the same effect in the DVD mentioned above. It's clear that the custom Bridgestone units on the Enzo, and on the NSX-R, are part of the reason why those two cars can absolutely manhandle everything else in the twisties. The NSX-R in fact at Tskuba, which is like a glorified go-kart track due to its ultra-short length, demolishes the NSX-S Zero by such a large margin that I suspect that the custom "R" tires are part of the reason why. They're that good.
 
NetViper said:
Any ideas on why the NSX-R seems to always overheat??

Rad in front, engine in the back? That's a lot fo distance to cover for cooling perhaps the honda stock water pump just isn't up to the task as I assume other cars in that race have the same setup either MR or RR
 
I haven't d/l this particular video but BM and BMI video's are video magazines meaning some and most of the cars entered are readers cars or shop cars and so some drivers are scared to push it to the limit/crash it and some have not even broken in.

To say the NSX-R cheated/massaged is true in a sense it was designed in these smaller tracks and also the driver has more seat time and the car been run in. I won't be surprised if its the same NSX-R( there aren't many even in japan) they use all the time which may explain the overheating reoccuring. Whereas the exotica's may be straight out of the box but some on the other hand are from racing shops with aftermarket exhaust(most F cars) and rollcage and exhaust on the P cars.

These drivers race in JDM cars week in and week out and gan san has been involved in the NSX development since 90'.

Anyways I'm sick and tired of people bashing the NSX or any JDM when they beat the imports especially the exotica and make excuses and call the BM/BMI bias but even the jap BM drivers say the JDM can only win on the tsukuba track and that it needs more power if it was to compete against the imports on longer tracks as euro's are getting more powerful 400HP> whereas the JDM are stuck at 280HP so whatfor improve top end. SO thus they emphasise and test on tracks like tsukuba where speeds rarely go over the 180KMH eg. an SL55 or M3CSL reach 183 and 179KMH on the straight. Not to mention that tsukuba is more easily accessible for shooting purposes.

BM/BMI is not the end all be all. I mean a Gallardo is an awesome car but quoting 0-150MPH times is pointless for BM races except on the straight on 2 tracks in japan.

edit: if not I'm mistaken isn't Motegi the Honda testing ground .. every NSX preview is done on this track...
 
AWESOME video, and quite funny driver commentary at times too. Glad to see the NSX-R do so well, but only because of it's strength in the corners.

I'm no expert, but Gan San really seemed to hammer that NSX all the way - relentlessly. Whereas the Lambo's had time to breath when they slowed down on the corners.


Or maybe Gan San used it as an excuse to justify why he was owned by two lamborghini's. ;)
 
I would say MAKO is dead on in his assesments of the NSX and lambos. Those times alone show why when the road gets straight, the NSX gets left in the dust.

I had also heard that the gallardo was like a "next-gen" NSX. I have yet to drive one, but maybe one day I will get a chance. I am sure there are some around savannah, but if it is like ferrari guys, they are too snobby to even wave to you. (ands its not like a drive a mustang!).

The 3.2L NSX is really way faster than the 3.0 :( You can see in the race with the NSX-S Zero and the old Type R how much faster than 3.2 and 6-speed make the car.

MAKO, as for your exhaust, the comptech is way too quiet. Try the anytime :) I thought you were adding the CTSC? Did you change your plans?
 
true true on all accounts...

The Japanese track DO favor cars that are developed like the NSX. The power difference is obvious, and with that difference the handling of the lambos is ENOUGH to pass the NSX-R on those tracks, and more than ehough to pass it on the faster tracks. But the NSX-R despite it's lack of grunt just gets held up in the corners by the heavier, more powerful machines like the lambos.

Granted the Gallardo is geared pretty tall (my suspicion was that they geared it tall so it didn't completely kill it's more expensive big brother) I think like others have said, with the right tires and set up (shorter gearing?) The Gallardo may have trumped them all. It's a very impressive machine.

However, in an OEM to OEM test on the Twin Ring Motegi track the NSX-R was stupid fast. In most other battles with it, even though the NSX-R gets left behind in a power duel, it rules the corners with cars in it's class. (Of course the F50 and GT2 should smoke it: referring to a BMI supercar battle)
 
NetViper said:
MAKO, as for your exhaust, the comptech is way too quiet. Try the anytime :) I thought you were adding the CTSC? Did you change your plans?

Originally, after I first drove the Gallardo six months ago, I thought "whelp, bye bye NSX" and I couldn't wait to sell it.

But now the nostalgia factor has come into play and I'd rather just keep it as I move up the exotic food chain. So much history and frankly "heritage" is in the car, it represents the apex of automotive engineering from an entire country, and that has merit to me. Plus I love its look, and will never tire of seeing it sitting there.

If it had more value, and was worth something like $100k then I'd part with it. But with '99 3.2L cars going in the low 50s, why not just keep it? What real differance is $50k going to make in my life versus owning one of my original dream cars forever? So it's staying. I don't think I'll be putting more money into it however, as it would take at least a well tuned FX400 kit or a Gerry Johnson high-boost kit to keep pace with a stock Gallardo.

I'll pick up a Gallardo sometime next year, once the 2004 models arrive in volume on the secondary market. I refuse to buy new. As with other exotics, the Gallardo isn't holding its resale value very well, and I expect them to be plentiful in the range of $150k with less than five thousand miles on the clock.

Funny that the BestMotoring NSXs might have been ringers from Honda, I never would have thought that. It makes sense though, too many times I've finished watching a BM tape or DVD over the past 10 years and thought to myself "What the hellllllllll, how was the NSX so fast" lol. Plus the Type-R overheating TWICE now as Viper noted is a concern. But it also wouldn't surprise me if they weren't ringers at all. We tend to forget that BM rarely tests anything below a Type-S, and that tends to skew the results a bit.

Overall it's a great DVD, don't just watch that clip people, go buy it and begin your Italian conversions! :)

MAKO
 
Back
Top