- Joined
- 17 June 2004
- Messages
- 695
Ojas said:
Ojas,
Thanks for posting the clip. It was fun to watch.
-
Protip: Profile posts are public! Use Conversations to message other members privately. Everyone can see the content of a profile post.
New Best Motoring: Gallardo vs all (NSX-R)
- Thread starter scottjua
- Start date
Ojas,
Thanks for posting the clip. It was fun to watch.
*Absoutely amazing*....just goes to show why the NSX is a drivers car and so many F1 and Indy car drivers OWN as their own. Legendary Aryton senna aided in its development and the world-class technologically sophisticated chassis was simply better than anything of its day and still is superior than most of the best offerings out there....even at triple the money. In the same way of the Mclaren F1...which incidentally the chassis design was modeled after (Gordon Murray, cheif designer of the F1, stated that in his book...saying the layout, chassis design, feedback, and technology in the NSX was among the best he's ever experienced..hence strongly influenced his design for the Mclaren's chassis) It's NO surprise the NSX-R SPANKED those bigger HP cars on the race track where handling, balance, feedback, etc matter. This is literally the fifth japanese video I've seen of an NSX religously spanking other exotics butts on a roadcourse. I remember one of the earlier Best Motoring Videos where the first gen NSX-R easily beat everyone on the track except an F40...which had trouble with the NSX i might add....and was only beating it becuase of the huge power to weight advantage.
PS: ...do a simply CTSC bolt on, on that NSX-R and those Lambo's, Ferrari's, and Porches wouldn't of even been on the lead lap with that NSX, LOL
PS: ...do a simply CTSC bolt on, on that NSX-R and those Lambo's, Ferrari's, and Porches wouldn't of even been on the lead lap with that NSX, LOL
NSXTASY_MD said:PS: ...do a simply CTSC bolt on, on that NSX-R and those Lambo's, Ferrari's, and Porches wouldn't of even been on the lead lap with that NSX, LOL
I agree 100%. Surely someone in Japan has supercharged a Type R with a Gruppe M. I don't know how common Comptech is over there.
A Factor X NSX-R FX500 would dominate all
MAKO said:
True, but a FX500 tuned will leave a gallardo in the dust for 1/3 the price..
NetViper said:True, but a FX500 tuned will leave a gallardo in the dust for 1/3 the price..
No question. But I want AWD and I want e-Gear for my next exotic. AWD because I'm bored with feathering the throttle on every 1st gear right turn, or sweating that there's gravel and/or an oil spot on every full acceleration 2nd gear freeway onramp sweeper. AWD in the Gallardo allows you to be silly-stupid with the throttle, ripping it up all over the place with hardly a concern for the car possibly swapping ends.
E-Gear because of the growing problem of traffic down here in So Cal, and I enjoy left foot braking.
And NSXTACY_MD, I would recommend you look at the big picture. It was a five lap race, and both the Murci and Gallardo would have gotten by on lap six, even without the R overheating. What happens in a 10 lap race? How about 20 laps? How about 40 laps?
Bottom line: The NSX-R likely gets lapped by both L-cars if this is true wheel to wheel event with 20 or more laps. So lets keep things in perspective please. Even an Elise is faster than an F40 for five laps, but does it win the race in the end? Is it a "faster" car on the track than an F40? Nope.
Interestingly, your idea of an NSX-R with a Gruppe M unit would make the total cost of the car about $125k if purchased new. Still a good performance bargain.
MAKO
MAKO said:
Mako is right. If the car can't hold up after 5 laps, that is not a good sign. I wonder if they have ever discussed this problem. 5 Laps wont get you too far.
As for the Gruppe M on the NSX-R, that would be Very competitve in that field. If it didn't overheat
MAKO said:
I must respectfully disagree with you on a few points Mako...
#1)...There is definitely something not correct (factory defect) about that particular stock type-R "overheating." Which is readily correctable as its never been a common hallmark of the NSX (I've personally done many all out track event in the heat of the summer without a hiccup in my 91').
#2)...I don't neccessarily agree that both the Murci & Gallardo would of gotten by it in another lap if it hadn't overheated. Neither of us have enough pertinent information to state that kind of conclusion* When exactly did the NSX-R encounter the overheating, the driver was still doing/going 8-to-9 tenths when encountering the problem as oppose to all out. And in the first THREE laps before the overheating issues the NSX-R showed a COMMANDING poise, balance, and handling over both lambos*
#3) ...common knowlegde actually rebutts your suggestion that in another 10, 20 or 40 laps the bigger, heavier, AWD tire chewing and tire warping, boats, *i mean* lambos would extend their leads more and more. In fact, the lighter you are...the easier you are on tires, brakes and equippment in general and you almost always see lighter weight racing machines that are rear wheel drive out endurancing a heavy weight AWD ones over the long haul. Thats well known. Just watch the speed vision world challange series as the AWD TT Audi's which are given every consession in the book hang on for dear life by the end of the race compared to the lighter rear wheel drive entries. There are MANY more examples of this but I'll stop there.
...Again, a properly functioning (not a used press fleet car) NSX-R would of VERY possibly outright won that race* (i'd put my money on it
) ...and with a simple low boost CTSC bolt on would of left those Lambos behind by a *significant* margin IMHO (and yes, at less than half the cost)I'm not going to debate with you, been there, done that on this board too many times to count.
When you actually drive a Gallardo, or a Murci, you let me know. I've driven both, and I can tell from your "boat" reference that you're a typical biased NSX owner, living in the early 90s when the car was still a world beater. Times have changed, life goes on, and competitive cars have gotten much better than the days of the "348".
The clip doesn't show it, but in the DVD they do show the fastest lap times the cars turned with the same driver, alone on the track in a pseudo "qualifying" round. Guess which two cars came in first and second place?
The same two that came in first and second place in the actual 5-lap "race" and the same two that would come in first and second place in a 40 lap "race". On inferior tires to the R. Case closed.
I remain extremely impressed by the NSX-R, always have been. Particularly for its power level, it's a very strong car for the money. But it's not about to outlap a stock Gallardo, on any track besides the Tskuba go-kart track. And that's giving it the benefit of the doubt because in the JDM March 2004 edition of BestMotoring, a Gallardo faced off against the R at Tskuba and WON despite dramatically fading brakes according to the driver.
And for you to insinuate that the R was a "beaten up press car" is laughable. What fantasy world do you live in? Another poster just told you that if anything Honda specifically PREPS these cars for BM tests. But I guess that's not relevant, and the Lambos were both fresh off the factory floor while the R was a beaten into the ground junker. LOL.
Ever stop to think that maybe the R overheated in the last two BM episodes it was featured in BECAUSE Honda hotrodded it a bit? That's they type of critical thinking that occurs when someone isn't biased and sees the whole picture. You, nor I, knows what happened. All I know is that the Murci and Gallardo turned faster laptimes in the qualifying round, and won the race, on inferior tires to the R.
The rest is fanboy hype and speculation.
MAKO
When you actually drive a Gallardo, or a Murci, you let me know. I've driven both, and I can tell from your "boat" reference that you're a typical biased NSX owner, living in the early 90s when the car was still a world beater. Times have changed, life goes on, and competitive cars have gotten much better than the days of the "348".
The clip doesn't show it, but in the DVD they do show the fastest lap times the cars turned with the same driver, alone on the track in a pseudo "qualifying" round. Guess which two cars came in first and second place?
The same two that came in first and second place in the actual 5-lap "race" and the same two that would come in first and second place in a 40 lap "race". On inferior tires to the R. Case closed.
I remain extremely impressed by the NSX-R, always have been. Particularly for its power level, it's a very strong car for the money. But it's not about to outlap a stock Gallardo, on any track besides the Tskuba go-kart track. And that's giving it the benefit of the doubt because in the JDM March 2004 edition of BestMotoring, a Gallardo faced off against the R at Tskuba and WON despite dramatically fading brakes according to the driver.
And for you to insinuate that the R was a "beaten up press car" is laughable. What fantasy world do you live in? Another poster just told you that if anything Honda specifically PREPS these cars for BM tests. But I guess that's not relevant, and the Lambos were both fresh off the factory floor while the R was a beaten into the ground junker. LOL.
Ever stop to think that maybe the R overheated in the last two BM episodes it was featured in BECAUSE Honda hotrodded it a bit? That's they type of critical thinking that occurs when someone isn't biased and sees the whole picture. You, nor I, knows what happened. All I know is that the Murci and Gallardo turned faster laptimes in the qualifying round, and won the race, on inferior tires to the R.
The rest is fanboy hype and speculation.
MAKO
Last edited:
Yeah. I agree that Lamborghini has really improved its line up of cars. I think all their changes are a step in the right direction. The German built Gallardo with AWD is supposed to have a great interior and the build quality is excellent. And an amazing drivetrain.
MAKO said:
Hmm. On a 40 lap race more than likely the Murcielago's brakes would have faded along with the tires becoming slippery, same thing as some of the other cars, as such you can't make a generalization as the one that you are making.
Keep in mind that both the Murcielago and the Gallardo are 4WD and "very heavy", the Murcielago in particular.
I've been to a track event where a guy brought a Murcielago, Gallardo and a GT3, from all of the above mentioned cars the GT3 was the most track friendly of them all. Comments about brakes fading was prevalent for the Murcielago, this was by a pro driver who was instructing and giving rides.
http://www.nsxprime.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=35539
Ken
Awesome video and some absolutely killer driving by Gan San! Clearly the NSX was outclassed here, but still managed to hang with the lambo's, while leaving the 360, 911TT and M3 well behind.
Mako, you wouldn't happen to have the solo lap times for the various cars would you? I'm curious if the NSX still came in third, and what the times for the lagging 3 cars were?
I also think the argument that an NSX with an FX500 would slaughter all is a bit of a crutch. We hear the same thing about how you can spend $10k on a crappy little Neon SRT-4 and have it spank the NSX in a straight line. Who cares? At the end of the day you're still driving a neon and you can't compare a $20k car to a $80k car. As much as I absolutely LOVE my NSX, in my opinion it's not in the same league as the lambo's.
Mako, you wouldn't happen to have the solo lap times for the various cars would you? I'm curious if the NSX still came in third, and what the times for the lagging 3 cars were?
I also think the argument that an NSX with an FX500 would slaughter all is a bit of a crutch. We hear the same thing about how you can spend $10k on a crappy little Neon SRT-4 and have it spank the NSX in a straight line. Who cares? At the end of the day you're still driving a neon and you can't compare a $20k car to a $80k car. As much as I absolutely LOVE my NSX, in my opinion it's not in the same league as the lambo's.
MAKO said:
Ok, I actually HAD some respect for you before these ridiculous statements and insinuations.
...For your information I HAVE driven a Diablo 6.0 before...8/10ths + on smooth backrounds / country side of a close friends. Not a Murcialago but very same "feel" and performance. This is coming from the owner of the 6.0 who test drove both extensively before deciding to go with the Diablo 6.0 for the looks (and I'd have to agree with him) The car felt VERY heavy...on the tires, brakes, transitions, YOU NAME IT* You could tell that we were pushing 4000lbs !!! LOL with the both of us sitting in it. Getting out of that car into an NSX was like taking off "timberland work boots" and slipping into super light running shoes. Far sharper reflexes and more nimble**
And for you to insinuate that a 3600+lb AWD car would last and endure better over 40LAPS+ better than a 2900lb rear drive car in the long run clearly shows one of two things ;
#1) Your so bias toward the name & coolness factor of the lambos that your stating ridculous and wrongfull speculations of how much better they would last and go over the long haul (a joke)
#2) You know nothing about road racing and have very little experience ON THE TRACK in various types of racing machines (i.e. RWD, FWD, AWD, light weight, heavy weight, etc.) to know what would happen and make an accurate speculation. (PS: also read the post above by "2SLOW2SPEED," another road racer)
As someone who DOES road race, I'll let you know "MACCO." A 3600+lb AWD would begin overheating its tires and brakes VERY quickly and embarrassingly drop off the pace. In fact, a 5-LAP staged race (as in the video) represents a bias in FAVOR of the heavy AWD set-ups. Allowing them to use their strong HP and the AWD to "use up" their tires & bite in the tarmac for a few hot laps and before things get superheated (as they ALWAYS do in heavy AWD vehicles in the long run on track).
And thanks for the label "fanboy" ...if that entails being enchanted by a 290HP "13 year old" design thats still beats the best that Lamborghini (571HP & 500HP) has to offer for 2005 on the road course then I guess I'm guilty.
PS: Having said all that...going thru the gears in the Diablo 6.0 I drove was a supernatural experience. The sound effects alone would warrant the price tag. I want one!!
Last edited:
Typical NSX owner, complete with the obligatory "chip on his shoulder" that comes from years of defending the car against a phantom enemy. I'm done with you MD, you're no better than the same C6 owners you're savaging in that other thread. Both groups are verrrrrry similar when faced not with "attacks" but with "reality".
Bitter pill to swallow.
To the sane Primers, re-read my posts for an unbiased look at the cars being spoken about.
MAKO
Bitter pill to swallow.
To the sane Primers, re-read my posts for an unbiased look at the cars being spoken about.
MAKO
I'm not sure what to be more impressed with...the NSX-R or Gan San's racecraft. Truly a badass video.
However, wheel to wheel racing with drivers of varying familiarity with their cars will never prove anything though. It really is painfully obviously how the Murci driver was not going all out in the braking zones...
However, wheel to wheel racing with drivers of varying familiarity with their cars will never prove anything though. It really is painfully obviously how the Murci driver was not going all out in the braking zones...
Mr Payne said:
I'd say Nakaya is also one of the more aggresive drivers. His style isn't an all out attack like Gan San's but he doesn't easily back down in a braking duel. From what I've seen, he has a better understanding from a technical standpoint on what he needs to do to make the cars he drives perform their best. It varies from car to car and track to track, but I woulnd't say he wasn't trying. If he wasn't out braking the NSX-R then I don't think that he could have without getting the car out of whack and going even slower as a result.
Gan San is just a crazy old nut! I love it. ^_^ In the end who knows, it's fun to watch.
I think they should throw in the Lotus Elise to see how it would have compared against big boys...Giant Killer ...
Wow, great video. Thanks. A great performance from the NSX. Just wondering how a Skyline or an Evo would do on that particular battle.
Why is everyone glossing over the fact that the 911TT was a tiptronic?
You really believe that a 6 speed 911TT with a seasoned Porsche driver wouldnt have put in a stronger showing?
How about a 911GT2?
I love the Best Motoring stuff, but I wouldnt take it as gospel. Of course no one has access to the NSX-R outside of Japan (which is a problem in and of itself since the regular NSX is nowhere near the NSX-R), but even if the NSX-R were available in the US, I dont think the average R driver would be walking all over the average 6-speed TT driver on most tracks.
A VERY good question is why did they run a tiptronic in that race? It's interesting to see (esp for me since I like automatics) but it seems awfully unfair to Porsche in a supposed (battle)
You really believe that a 6 speed 911TT with a seasoned Porsche driver wouldnt have put in a stronger showing?
How about a 911GT2?
I love the Best Motoring stuff, but I wouldnt take it as gospel. Of course no one has access to the NSX-R outside of Japan (which is a problem in and of itself since the regular NSX is nowhere near the NSX-R), but even if the NSX-R were available in the US, I dont think the average R driver would be walking all over the average 6-speed TT driver on most tracks.
A VERY good question is why did they run a tiptronic in that race? It's interesting to see (esp for me since I like automatics) but it seems awfully unfair to Porsche in a supposed (battle)
Supercar said:
Based on previous performances and lap times. I'd say those two cars would have difficulty even battling with the rear pack* (the 911 TT, BMW CSL & 360 modena)
Mako,
Whatever, lol.
NSXTASY_MD said:Based on previous performances and lap times. I'd say those two cars would have difficulty even battling with the rear pack* (the 911 TT, BMW CSL & 360 modena)
Thanks Mako. What a relief to hear that
Similar threads
- Locked
