New Brakes, New Rotors=Difficulty stopping. Clueless?

[xiongb1]

Ok so I recently did a brake job.

-All new four Stoptech Slotted rotors and Hawk HPS brake pads.
1st test drive: Before I pulled out of the driveway I noticed the driver side front started chattering/ clicking (ABS). Prior to the brake changed, it has never done this. Anyways I Took it down the street and literally everytime I'll have to fight with the brake pedal to come to a stop.

-So I drove the car back and bleed/ flushed all four calipers using Motul 600 fluid.
2nd test drive: Took it out and again I'll have to really applied pressure on the brake pedal to come to a stop. The ABS did at some point started chattering again, but went away. Due to the fact that the brakes were not locking up soon enough I wasn't sure if the ABS was even working.

-Pretty clueless at this point...

Car is a 91 NSX and the other addition I add was a set of 5mm spacer.
Brand new rear tires and 75-80% front yokohoma tires.

 

[xiongb1]

I should note ABS light never came on.
-I did checked ABS fuse and pulled them out to check continuity and everything seems fine.
-Fluid was @ the low in the ABS reservoir and I did topped it off to the max line.

-When bleeding the brakes (started with the furthest away from the master cylinder) I did not noticed any bubbles or air in any of the calipers.

 

[Caroline-NSX]

Hawk brake pads are garbage.We used those before and had the same problem.They are only good for less brake dust.You should of went with the OEM pads with those rotors.

 

[Hrant]

Did you follow the instructions regarding washing the rotors before any use? This is key.

Also scrub the brake pads with some file on asphalt and then you have to bed them.

 

[nbuch001]

I have always had success with the Project Mu pads. No issues at all.

 

[xiongb1]

Hawk brake pads are garbage.We used those before and had the same problem.They are only good for less brake dust.You should of went with the OEM pads with those rotors.

Really?? I've had HAWK HPS on my 3rd Gen RX7, my dodge Viper GTS and I can assure you it doesn't feel anything like this.

The review Of the HPS on here seems pretty reliable that's why I went with them.
And I bought it from SOS cause they recommend it for street driving also.

I'm just clueless now. I bleed/flushed the fluid and still same result. Again the only thing that I noticed was the ABS started chattering, but I wouldnt even think twice a bad ABS could caused this hard braking issue.

 

[xiongb1]

Did you follow the instructions regarding washing the rotors before any use? This is key.

Also scrub the brake pads with some file on asphalt and then you have to bed them.

Yes the rotors I used two cans of brake cleaner and scrubbed all the dirt/ grease whatever it was on the rotors.

The HPS brake pads I did not. I've never had to file it and bed it when using them..

 

[Caroline-NSX]

Really?? I've had HAWK HPS on my 3rd Gen RX7, my dodge Viper GTS and I can assure you it doesn't feel anything like this.

The review Of the HPS on here seems pretty reliable that's why I went with them.
And I bought it from SOS cause they recommend it for street driving also.

I'm just clueless now. I bleed/flushed the fluid and still same result. Again the only thing that I noticed was the ABS started chattering, but I wouldnt even think twice a bad ABS could caused this hard braking issue.

Yep!

 

[CL65 Captain]

Don't listen to Caroline, she has no idea what she is talking about. Hawk makes great pads. I have driven on everything from HPS, Hp +, blues and dtc70s. The pad is not your problem. Virgin rotors need to be bedded in and will stop poorly until pad material is transfered to the rotor.

However, your abs should not be activating. Especially bothersome is the comment that Abs was chattering before even getting out of the driveway.... I don't think I could get my abs to activate under 30 in the wet slamming on the brakes.

I think your problem lies with the install.

 

[Hrant]

Yes the rotors I used two cans of brake cleaner and scrubbed all the dirt/ grease whatever it was on the rotors.

The HPS brake pads I did not. I've never had to file it and bed it when using them..

The instructions state to clean with soap and water.

 

[RYU]

Don't listen to Caroline, she has no idea what she is talking about. Hawk makes great pads. I have driven on everything from HPS, Hp +, blues and dtc70s. The pad is not your problem. Virgin rotors need to be bedded in and will stop poorly until pad material is transfered to the rotor.

However, your abs should not be activating. I think your problem lies with the install.

+1 Holy crap.. that was the biggest bunch of misinformation i've heard in a very very long time and said with such conviction too! wow....

Hawk makes fantastic pads but you have to properly bed them in like any high performance pads.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Hrant, thats not the problem. I've changed numerous rotors without washing them at all.

See his comment about abs activating before even pulling out of the drive way. Unless you have a long ass driveway where you can hit 40+ mph.

You have a problem with the abs or the install. I'm guessing the later.

 

[CL65 Captain]

+1 Holy crap.. that was the biggest bunch of misinformation i've heard in a very very long time and said with such conviction too! wow....

Hawk makes fantastic pads but you have to properly bed them in like any high performance pads.

Re read the post..... Virgin rotors need to be bedded in. My comment that it's not the pad is regarding the hps not being junk as indicated by caroline nsx.

And the hps is a street pad. it really doesn't need to be bedded in like a track pad. Normal driving is enough to transfer pad material to the rotor.

 

[Hrant]

Hrant, thats not the problem. I've changed numerous rotors without washing them at all.

See his comment about abs activating before even pulling out of the drive way. Unless you have a long ass driveway where you can hit 40+ mph.

You have a problem with the abs or the install. I'm guessing the later.

Jim, I too have changed rotors before and used brake cleaning fluid :wink:

But, Stoptech rotors have a film on them and the instructions state you "MUST" [all in caps] before ........... "Not doing so will damage the rotors and pads and prevent the brakes from performaing properly."

They also show a picture of washing it with soap just to make sure.

However, the OP may have other issues as well.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Fair enough, I have never run stoptech rotors. Although since Racing Brake have given up on NSX s and Brembo replacement rings I guess I will have to use Stoptech rings, because I'm not going to get raped for Brembo rings.

 

[xiongb1]

The instructions state to clean with soap and water.

No Bryan at SOS told me to just clean it with brake Cleaner.

I mean I've installed numerous of HPS pad and new rotors and it'll stop right on the spot. Never really have to go thru bedding process. The only time I had to bed the pads was when I had Brembo BBK installed in my 3rd Gen Rx7.

But I guess it doesn't hurt to try.

 

[Hrant]

No Bryan at SOS told me to just clean it with brake Cleaner.

I mean I've installed numerous of HPS pad and new rotors and it'll stop right on the spot. Never really have to go thru bedding process. The only time I had to bed the pads was when I had Brembo BBK installed in my 3rd Gen Rx7.

But I guess it doesn't hurt to try.

All I am saying is it is best to read and follow the instructions of the manufacturer. And there is a reason why they offer such a detailed instructions. The instructions dictate any applicable "warranty" if indeed there is an issue with the rotor which I doubt very much.

You may want to call Stoptech and see if they think this may have affected the rotor. Perhaps they may suggest to scrub/rough it a bit.

 

[xiongb1]

Jim, I too have changed rotors before and used brake cleaning fluid :wink:

But, Stoptech rotors have a film on them and the instructions state you "MUST" [all in caps] before ........... "Not doing so will damage the rotors and pads and prevent the brakes from performaing properly."

They also show a picture of washing it with soap just to make sure.

However, the OP may have other issues as well.

Yes I did remember Bryan telling me that the rotors need to be clean. But he didn't mention soap and water. He just mention brake clean, so that's what I did. I'll try the bedding and possibly clean it some more tomorrow...

 

[Hrant]

Yes I did remember Bryan telling me that the rotors need to be clean. But he didn't mention soap and water. He just mention brake clean, so that's what I did. I'll try the bedding and possibly clean it some more tomorrow...

I recommend you call Stoptech first and see what they advise just in case matters get worse ...... :wink:

 

[CL65 Captain]

Go look at your rotors with a flashlight, can you see a gray pad material smeared around the rotor? These are brand new rotors that I just bedded in today.

 

[RYU]

Re read the post..... Virgin rotors need to be bedded in. My comment that it's not the pad is regarding the hps not being junk as indicated by caroline nsx.

And the hps is a street pad. it really doesn't need to be bedded in like a track pad. Normal driving is enough to transfer pad material to the rotor.

You have hundred of hours more track experience than I do but in this instance i'll follow the manufacturers instructions :wink:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php

Note:
Hawk Performance burnishes its High Performance Street brake pads as a final step in the factory, but all brake pads have to be bedded-in with the rotors (new or used) that they will be used against. Properly bedding-in new brake pads results in a transfer film being generated at the pad and rotor interface to maximize brake performance.

I do agree in that most rotors i've seen ships with a protective coating that needs to be removed with some type of soap or solvent. Not sure about the STs specifically.

 

[CL65 Captain]

You have hundred of hours more track experience than I do but in this instance i'll follow the manufacturers instructions :wink:
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/hps.php



I do agree in that most rotors i've seen ships with a protective coating that needs to be removed with some type of soap or solvent. Not sure about the STs specifically.

The HPS being a street pad does not really "need" to be bedded in like a track pad. Normal driving will eventually transfer the material. If you read Hawks instructions for bed in for the HPS it talks about a few moderate stops from 35 and then 45. That's really nothing, that can be accomplished with normal driving.

A track pad in contrast has to be brought up to a hot enough temp to get the material to transfer (multiple hard stops from 80-20 etc), meaning a real bed in.

Before I pulled out of the driveway I noticed the driver side front started chattering/ clicking (ABS).

How fast are you going when the ABS is activating? Are you slamming on the brakes when this happens? Are you barely moving?

Prior to the brake changed, it has never done this. Anyways I Took it down the street and literally everytime I'll have to fight with the brake pedal to come to a stop.

Fight with the brake pedal? Press really hard? Is the pedal soft and you have to press really hard like you have no power brakes? You press hard and it doesn't stop? What exactly do you mean when you say "I have to fight with the brake pedal"?

 

[xiongb1]

Go look at your rotors with a flashlight, can you see a gray pad material smeared around the rotor? These are brand new rotors that I just bedded in today.

Will again I've only drove it around the corner twice and braking was just too much so I return. The front rotors looks new like it should. The rear however does appears to have some kind of smeared.

Front:

Rear:

 

[xiongb1]

How fast are you going when the ABS is activating? Are you slamming on the brakes when this happens? Are you barely moving?



Fight with the brake pedal? Press really hard? Is the pedal soft and you have to press really hard like you have no power brakes? You press hard and it doesn't stop? What exactly do you mean when you say "I have to fight with the brake pedal"?

ABS started chattering for 10-15 secs barely moving pulling out of the driveway. 2nd time it started chattering was roughly around the same speed. Just rolling.

Ha, yes fight as in Pedal is hard and still no power brake. Stops like a 60s vehicle equipped with drum brakes as comparison.

 

[CL65 Captain]

Will again I've only drove it around the corner twice and braking was just too much so I return. The front rotors looks new like it should.

Around the corner and back isn't going to do it. If you look at my pic, that is what they are suppose to look like after a bed in.

Hawk's bed in for HPS:

1. After installing new brake pads, make 6 to 10 stops from approximately 30-35 mph applying moderate pressure.
2. Make an additional 2 to 3 hard stops from approximately 40 to 45 mph.
3. DO NOT DRAG BRAKES!
4. Allow 15 minutes for brake system to cool down.
5. After step 4 your new pads are ready for use.

A couple of notes that Hawk doesn't mention.

1. When they talk about "stops" it's 35 or 45 down to 10 not to a complete stop.

2. Drive for 15 min without using the brakes to let them cool back down to ambient. Try not to come to a complete stop - ie stop light before you cool them down.