Now i am really confused

[CL65 Captain]

I was told that an NSX isn't a "Super Car" because....

- It doesn't leak oil

- The brake lights don't come on when you turn the windshield wipers on

- It doesn't catch on fire

- It doesn't get 11 mpg

- It doesn't cost $85 for an oil change

- It doesn't need a new clutch every 15k miles

- When you needs parts, the service guy doesn't wear a white doctor's coat

 

[comtec]

A hand-built all-aluminum car means something to me. I don't think an esprit outperforms an NSX, I don't think its more exotic looking, and I think both are very rare. What in your mind makes the Esprit a "supercar" and the NSX in a lower class?

It mean something to me also. And yes the esprit outperforms the nsx. What makes a exotic a supercar is designers concentrate more on the performance of the car than they do about driver comfort. Supercars are built for the street race cars and adding the things that the law requires to make them street legal is a afterthought as is driver comfort. So basicly what makes the nsx in a (different) class is that driver comfort and normal street driveability was a forethought in the design.


CL65, lol

 

[comtec]

Depreciation on the Esprit is notoriously high. Check out the prices of older cars...

Yes their resale value sucks, this one has lost $30-40k already and is only 3 years old with 6k miles.

 

[MLmotorsport]

Hey Captain, you can add a new definition to your list. :biggrin:

I was told that an NSX isn't a "Super Car" because....

- It doesn't leak oil

- The brake lights don't come on when you turn the windshield wipers on

- It doesn't catch on fire

- It doesn't get 11 mpg

- It doesn't cost $85 for an oil change

- It doesn't need a new clutch every 15k miles

- When you needs parts, the service guy doesn't wear a white doctor's coat

- it must be uncomfortable... no comfort at all. Things like leather, ac/heat, radio, windows, and the like are for pantywaists anyway. :wink: )

And yes the esprit outperforms the nsx.

Might have some differing opinions on that one here (including mine). I will allow others to tackle that one though.

 

[Angelo08]

Come on not all Lotus's suck. My brother has a 99 350 Sport. In comparison to the NSX, in NA form it basically blows it away in every form. I agree the stock tranny is crappy. He opted for the 6 speed sequential tranny from UK witha Quaiffe differential and the Euro Race ECU. The car is real fast. The factory boost is really low somewhere within the 6psi range. As for handling, i have yet to be in a car that is more precise than that suspension setup. The road test on the 350 Sport was done in the rain with extreme results. Braking via APRacing setup is phenomenal. The magnesium OZ racing wheels are super light. The car is very balanced and user friendly. Now for the problems, the only complaints i see in that car, being that it is so damn low you cant drive it basically anywhere but a smooth highway (dont really exist or that matter in NY) is the cramped pedals and lack of footrest. Your feet bascally have to stay on the pedals all the time, service is very easy on that car as the bay isnt that complicated or stuffed, lack of intercoolers severely degrades its power, but there are alternative for liquid-air cooling. Either way it is a nice race car with street capabilities. They do tend to decrease in value which another flaw. Its all in the driver's preference. There have been no real issues with the car otherwise.

 

[comtec]

- it must be uncomfortable... no comfort at all. Things like leather, ac/heat, radio, windows, and the like are for pantywaists anyway. )

I didn't say it had to be uncomfortable, i said that comfot was an afterthought.

Come on not all Lotus's suck

I don't think they suck, far from it. I was talking about the resale value.

 

[comtec]

Angelo,
From your statement about service being easy i take it your brother does his own service. Make sure his cleans the debris from the radiator each time he services it as this is something that alot of people overlook. Can cause overheating and or premature radiator failure.

 

[Angelo08]

Angelo,
From your statement about service being easy i take it your brother does his own service. Make sure his cleans the debris from the radiator each time he services it as this is something that alot of people overlook. Can cause overheating and or premature radiator failure.

yes he does. Well after an incident at the Lotus dealer for service: forgetting to properly screw on the oil filter, it popped off under WOT thus losing oil pressure and damaging 2 pistons instantly. We fought with them on that but nothing came about. The car was then blueprinted and balanced with a few goodies inside. From that moment on all service was done in his garage on his lift. Yes the radiators are a common problem dating abck to the older generations as well. There was alot of potential in the Lotus line, but i guess the techs decided to take the easy way out and save their bucks rather than improving the faults and satisfying clientel, some big faults being the crappy renault 5 speed tranny and the overheating issues. As an all around car, i too firmly beleive the NSX is superior but im not sos ure on teh track, the way thsi acr is setup. A stock Esprit V8 is completely different than a 350 Sport (basically like comparing a stock NSX to an NSX-R).

 

[comtec]

Sorry to here he had the problems. I remembered reading a technical service bulletin a few years back that went out to dealers. Even the lotus mechanics were skipping this step.

 

[Angelo08]

Sorry to here he had the problems. I remembered reading a technical service bulletin a few years back that went out to dealers. Even the lotus mechanics were skipping this step.

either i appreciate the heads up. Still look into finding a nice unmolested NSX you wont regret it.

 

[NSX-GUY]

- It doesn't cost $85 for an oil change

Guess the 911 isn't an exotic either - it costs $149 for an oil change.

:biggrin::biggrin::biggrin:

 

[comtec]

Update,

Well they were supposed to get back to me today but no word. You think i made them mad by trying to cut there price by $13k?

 

[NSX-GUY]

Update,

Well they were supposed to get back to me today but no word. You think i made them mad by trying to cut there price by $13k?

Nope - I think they'd be insulted (as YOU probably would if someone did that to you)

Where'd you tell us they said they'd get back to you ? Oops, that's right - you didn't.

And YOU have purchased what, 40 cars in your life ?

And you don't realize most sellers would not even take an offer of 20% below their asking price seriously. I'm surprised they said they'd get back to you (if indeed they actually said that). Most sellers given that kind of low ball offer would simply ignore you. They would assume you're simply not a serious buyer (which you're probably not). :wink:

 

[comtec]

Nope - I think they'd be insulted (as YOU probably would if someone did that to you)

Where'd you tell us they said they'd get back to you ? Oops, that's right - you didn't.

And YOU have purchased what, 40 cars in your life ?

And you don't realize most sellers would not even take an offer of 20% below their asking price seriously. I'm surprised they said they'd get back to you (if indeed they actually said that). Most sellers given that kind of low ball offer would simply ignore you. They would assume you're simply not a serious buyer (which you're probably not). :wink:

Well once again you prove you are an idiot. I tried to put it softly the last time but you just didn't get it. You only post to try and start arguments. Speaking of assumptions, that is all you do. Don't try to assume that you know who i am or what i am capable of. If they want a decent offer they should wait for someone to contact them about the car and not try to offer it to someone who was asking about a nsx that they had already sold. AND YES I HAVE HAD OVER 40 CARS The same answer that i gave you the last time you asked.

 

[NSX-GUY]

Well once again you prove you are an idiot. I tried to put it softly the last time but you just didn't get it. You only post to try and start arguments. Speaking of assumptions, that is all you do. Don't try to assume that you know who i am or what i am capable of. If they want a decent offer they should wait for someone to contact them about the car and not try to offer it to someone who was asking about a nsx that they had already sold. AND YES I HAVE HAD OVER 40 CARS The same answer that i gave you the last time you asked.

*I* am an idiot ?

So WHERE exactly did I "assume" anything ? I am only going by what YOU posted.

YOU asked if "we" thought they'd be mad at your (admittedly) lowballing them AND YOU told us they were supposed to get back to you "today" !!!

And *I* responded by telling you (what *I* thought) they'd be insulted (and why) and that you never told us where they SAID they were going to get back to you at all. I would think that someone as experienced at car buying like yourself would know better.

And now you're insulted by *my* perfectly legitimate response to YOUR question(s) ?!?!?!

Sorry if *I* can understand English better than YOU can write it. Or perhaps you just can't be bothered to write it very well (or rather, more completely) :biggrin:

You're just upset because you don't like the answer..... :wink:

So who's the idiot after all ? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: (Quit banging yer head against the wall so much - it just dulls yer brain :wink: No wonder you're "confused")

 

[flaminio]

Just my opinion, but the Lotus looks very outdated. That is what is so great about the NSX, it is timeless.

While I agree that the NSX is a timeless design ('natch), I would disagree that the Esprit is outdated. IMHO, it's still a strikingly beautiful machine:

 

[comtec]

*I* am an idiot ?

So WHERE exactly did I "assume" anything ? I am only going by what YOU posted.

YOU asked if "we" thought they'd be mad at your (admittedly) lowballing them AND YOU told us they were supposed to get back to you "today" !!!

And *I* responded by telling you (what *I* thought) they'd be insulted (and why) and that you never told us where they SAID they were going to get back to you at all. I would think that someone as experienced at car buying like yourself would know better.

And now you're insulted by *my* perfectly legitimate response to YOUR question(s) ?!?!?!

Sorry if *I* can understand English better than YOU can write it. Or perhaps you just can't be bothered to write it very well (or rather, more completely) :biggrin:

You're just upset because you don't like the answer..... :wink:

So who's the idiot after all ? :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: (Quit banging yer head against the wall so much - it just dulls yer brain :wink: No wonder you're "confused")

Ok here was your answer.

And you don't realize most sellers would not even take an offer of 20% below their asking price seriously. I'm surprised they said they'd get back to you (if indeed they actually said that). Most sellers given that kind of low ball offer would simply ignore you. They would assume you're simply not a serious buyer (which you're probably not).

Have you ever purchased a car? Most dealers that i have ever been to price their cars at Avg, retail and above. Most are at high retail. If you are looking at a car priced at $10k 20% off would make the car $8k a resonable offer. At $20k and 20% the offer of $16k would also be reasonable. The reason you think it isn't is probably because it is $13k which maybe seems to you to be high but this car is $62k and the low retail is $52k. And remember it is a lotus so they may have trouble selling it anyway.:smile:

Just like the other day you keep asking questions that i have already answered. (reason for the idiot)

 

[comtec]

While I agree that the NSX is a timeless design ('natch), I would disagree that the Esprit is outdated. IMHO, it's still a strikingly beautiful machine

I saw a couple of those in the yellow. The only yellow car i would own. Looks sweet.

 

[simonprelude]

I lusted over an Esprit for many years, then when I eventually drove an S4 I was dissapointed

 

[NSX-GUY]

Ok here was your answer.

Have you ever purchased a car? Most dealers that i have ever been to price their cars at Avg, retail and above. Most are at high retail. If you are looking at a car priced at $10k 20% off would make the car $8k a resonable offer. At $20k and 20% the offer of $16k would also be reasonable. The reason you think it isn't is probably because it is $13k which maybe seems to you to be high but this car is $62k and the low retail is $52k. And remember it is a lotus so they may have trouble selling it anyway.:smile:

Just like the other day you keep asking questions that i have already answered. (reason for the idiot)

Nope - never purchased a car !

Do you realize that for a car around 10K (retail) the trade-in (wholesale) price is roughly 8K. And YOU think 8K would be a "reasonable" offer ? :biggrin:

And which questions, exactly, did I ask that you already answered ? \

(Or are you talking about the things YOU assumed WE should have *assumed* like you expected the guy to get back to you when you never told us he said anything of the sort ? )

So, did he accept your offer (or even reply to it) ??? If so, please leave out all his foul language :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

 

[Da Hapa]

While I agree that the NSX is a timeless design ('natch), I would disagree that the Esprit is outdated. IMHO, it's still a strikingly beautiful machine:

I completely agree but the Lotus was one of those cars that I lusted after as a kid only to be horribly disappointed when I actually drove one.

The S4 I drove was horribly uncomfortable and the gearbox was an absolute piece of crap. It felt like I was rowing a bloody boat.

To each their own but to me, there's simply no comparison between an NSX and an Esprit.

 

[comtec]

Nope - never purchased a car !

Do you realize that for a car around 10K (retail) the trade-in (wholesale) price is roughly 8K. And YOU think 8K would be a "reasonable" offer ?

Yes that is reasonable. At least half of the cars that i have purchased have been at least 20% below asking price.

And which questions, exactly, did I ask that you already answered ?

"And YOU have purchased what, 40 cars in your life ?"

So, did he accept your offer (or even reply to it) ??? If so, please leave out all his foul language

No response and no foul language as of today.

 

[RON98]

get the lotus.

I was looking for one recently also. Saw one on the way to the lake. Was towing my boat and all and was peddle to the metal so i can keep up and sneak a few glances. :biggrin:

very very sexy cars. I dont think its out dated at all. Esp with the Ferrari round tail lights. The car sits a lot more agressively than the nsx and the rear end has that unmistakable muscular "italian" haulmark.

side by side im pretty sure the lotus would get more looks but not my much.

Especailly if you can get the V8 turbo power plant... pretty fn sweet.

Dont know much about dependability, but that wont stop me from buying a F355 when the right price comes long.

I think 49 is a bit high. They are taking you for a ride. I think you can get it down to 45 or even 40. These cars are not in demand as it is an true exotic and it is not widely known.

get the lotus.

I am also a believer that, if you need someone else to tell you what to buy... your a loser.:smile:

cant believe its only 6:50pm.... it feels like its 9pm already! what is going on!???! i blame global warming.

 

[comtec]

I am also a believer that, if you need someone else to tell you what to buy... your a loser.

cant believe its only 6:50pm.... it feels like its 9pm already! what is going on!???! i blame global warming.

I agree, i am not asking which one i should buy.

 

[Hugh]

get the lotus.
<blah>
<blah>
<blah>
Dont know much about dependability, but that wont stop me from buying a F355 when the right price comes long.

Don't do it......you'llllllllllllllllllll be sorrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry. I owned one, I know.

As for that piece of shit Ferrari, the right price would be for Ferrari to pay you to drive it as a one man advertising campaign for them and cover all of the maintenance costs. The right price for a 355 is about $500 or $600 from the local salvage yard just before they recycle it into litter boxes.