NSX Gasoline

[rkamarch]

Anyone know which brand of gas is best to use in the nsx? I know the car requires premium 93 octane. Whats the best brand of gas to put in it? I've heard Amoco or Mobil are among the best; is there any truth to this? This website is great, thanks guys!

 

[hdsr5]

7-8 years ago I was involved in a conversation regarding the turbo kits manufactured by DRAG from Honda/Acura cars. Mike @ DRAG told us that Chevron gas seems to have alot of water/moisture in it so it is not a preferred gas for high performance cars. He said Texaco gas is a good additive gas to fill up with once in a while, and that 76 & Shell were the best gases to use in a high performance car if you are looking at the same octane from diffferent companies. I never fill up at chevron, and try to fill up at 76 or Shell whenever possible. I would think Mobil gas fits in with Shell and 76.

 

[DPG]

Scuderia Ferrari use Shell...So I use Shell.

 

[Nimbus]

Scuderia Ferrari use Shell...So I use Shell.

You forgot to put a smiley face after your sentence to indicate you're only kidding.

 

[DeNguyen]

I dont know if there is any truth to this, but I've heard that many different Gas companies get their gas at the same gas refinery...basically saying that all gas brands are practically the same.

anyone know if this is fact or fiction?

 

[nsxtasy]

I know the car requires premium 93 octane.

Actually, the recommended fuel specified in the owner's manual is 91 octane or better. (It also notes that you can use octane lower than that, but performance will be degraded while doing so.)

 

[Lud]

Everyhing you ever wanted to know about gasoline is here: http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

 

[NSXROX]

You can't always count on the fact that a Shell or Mobil gas station are really pumping their own products. There are lots of privately owned franchises that buy third-party gas, so you don't always know what your getting. I'd recommend trying a few different stations in your area and run what sounds/feels best to you.

 

[Edwardo]

Sams Club has really cheap gas. Does anyone know what type of gas they use?

 

[DPG]

You forgot to put a smiley face after your sentence to indicate you're only kidding.

Ferrari F1 Rules!!!

 

[kgb_agent]

Everyhing you ever wanted to know about gasoline is here: http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

Good grief, Lud - you weren't kidding. You don't actually understand all that do you?

 

[UrbanPilot]

Best Gas

If I recall correctly, there was an article in the NYTimes or Wall Street (i think NYT though) about the best gas on the market. For several years now, they have all said that Cheveron is the best! Hands Down!

Now understand that from what I understand, all gas is the same when it is refined from oil but what makes all the brands different is the additives they use; ie Techron at Chevron.

Just what I understand. Maybe wrong but it sounds good right?

 

[Joel]

I use Shell most of the time. It's my preference.

Chevron only when I can't find a Shell station nearby.

I've had bad experience with 76 on my beater car so I will never set foot in there again.

I'm banning Mobil (except for the synthetic oil) because they are the cause for all the price-gouging in gas prices. Remember when 91 octane used to cost $1.18 per gallon? I do.

Stay away from ARCO.

 

[Autophile]

Everyhing you ever wanted to know about gasoline is here: http://www.cs.uu.nl/wais/html/na-dir/autos/gasoline-faq/.html

Wow, great site!

 

[Yellow Rose]

Gas Is Gas, But Additives Are Not

I dont know if there is any truth to this, but I've heard that many different gas companies get their gas at the same gas refinery...basically saying that all gas brands are practically the same. anyone know if this is fact or fiction?

I used to work for Shell Oil Company. Below is something I drafted on a different but very related topic. Caution - it is long. What it all boils down to is this very simple fact.....all name brand gasolines are perfectly suited for the NSX.

********************

What the pipeline folks do to prevent regular mixing with premium is to send a slug of water down the pipe before sending the next octane gas down. This keeps them separated. As we all know gas and water don't mix, but some water can dissolve into the gasoline. At the end of the pipe, the gas depot knows that the water is coming, so the send the gas to a diversion tank at the end of the run to capture the stuff that has become mixed and to prevent water from going into the main storage tanks. The diversion tanks serve to decant off the gas from the water and to store the "cheap stuff" This is sold to the off-brand folks.

WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG.......WRONG WRONG WRONG WRONG I used to for Shell Pipe Line Corporation, involved with gasoline pipelines out of the Deer Park Refinery. Keeping different grades of fuels and lubes separated is achieved with batching compatible grades of hydrocarbon. The interface is detected with a gravitometer to detect various products. Water is NEVER EVER injected as a batch separator. And NO NO NO NO the contaminated gasoline is not sold to off-brand gas stations. This is illegal as Ken Lay, with massive EPA penalties. It is transported back to the refinery for re-processing.

Pipelines are categorized according to what they transport - gas, crude or finished products. For most intents and purposes, gas is gas is gas. By this I mean natural gas that is used as fuel. Specialty gases are transported as cryogenic liquids because of their inherently high vapor pressure. Crude oils are transported from a tank farm to refineries via batched pipeline operations. Similarly, finished products are transported from refineries to distribution terminals via batched pipeline operations. Whether it is a crude oil pipeline or a finished products pipeline, water is never intentionally inserted between batches to keep them separated. Since the thread began as “water in gas” this discussion will center on finished products pipeline operations.

Most of the finished product pipelines in the US transport fuels - gasoline of various grades, diesel, kerosene, jet fuel and heating oil. The two largest finished product pipelines in the US are Colonial Pipeline and Explorer Pipeline. Both originate in Houston - Colonial terminates in New Jersey and Explorer terminates in Chicago. These pipelines are 30” to 42” in diameter.

Let’s look at Colonial Pipeline for this discussion. There are more than just four refineries that feed Colonial, but for simplicity we’ll include only Shell, Exxon, Arco and Conoco. The first three want to send batched of premium gasoline from Houston to various places along the East Coast. They schedule with Colonial on what day of the month this will happen. Colonial in turn will coordinate with the four of them how this will happen. Shell, Exxon and Texaco are in Houston. They each commit to a 100,000 BBL batch of premium gasoline. (One barrel equals forty-two gallons.) From their respective tank farms Shell, Exxon and Texaco inject a total of 300,000 BBL of premium gasoline into the origination point of Colonial’s pipeline. Colonial in turn pumps the batch up their pipeline. A batch of 300,000 BBL in a 30” diameter pipeline will be approximately sixty miles long. The devices on a pipeline that measure when a batch arrives or leaves is called a gravitometer. It measures the change in specific gravity of a liquid. Just like oil floats on top of water because oil’s specific gravity is less than water’s specific gravity, different hydrocarbon liquids will float on each other as well. A gravitometer in Louisiana detects when the head of the 300,000 BBL arrives, and begins counting down. When the computer calculates that half of the batch has passed, a valve is opened and Conoco’s 100,000 BBL batch is injected into the middle of the Shell-Exxon-Texaco batch. Now the fungible 400,000 BBL batch of premium gasoline is on its way to distribution plants.

Right about now you may be wondering what is ahead of and behind this 400,000 batch of premium gasoline. Unlike water that our misinformed poster said separates the batches, there is what is called an interface of compatible hydrocarbons. A typical sequence of finished products inside a pipeline is regular gasoline followed by premium gasoline followed by diesel followed by heating oil (if it is winter time) followed by kerosene followed by jet fuel followed again by regular gasoline. The interface is the natural mixing of these various hydrocarbon liquids as they travel inside the pipeline. Because it is known how large the batch is and how far it has traveled, the interface volume can be calculated. This is also confirmed by the previously mentioned gravitometers.

Up until now, we’ve talked about putting products into the pipeline and now it’s time to take them out. Since there are no refineries in Florida, let’s use that state as an example. Ever wonder how they get gas to Miami? Either by small tankers across the Gulf of Mexico from Houston or by pipelines and tanker trucks. Diverting the desired finished product to a destination along the way is really a very simple concept. Imagine a vegetable cart is being pushed along the sidewalk. As it passes by, I’ll pick out carrots and corn while you pick out onions and cucumbers. Occasionally, I’ll get an onion and you’ll get corn. Exact concept with hydrocarbons.

Water is never used to separate hydrocarbon batches for two reasons - water in hydrocarbon poses more of a problem than hydrocarbon in hydrocarbon and the water would be a hazardous waste that incurs enormous disposal costs. It simply is not done. Instead, the computer times when to divert product, planning for intentional interface to be mixed in with the intended receipt product. It is ok to have residual amounts of premium gasoline in regular gasoline but not the other way around. It is ok to have residual amounts gasoline in diesel fuel or heating oil but not the other way around. It is ok to have residual amounts of kerosene or jet fuel in gasoline but not the other way around.

Does this mean what you think it means? Yes, but it is managed. The pipeline company is required to schedule batches so that any unavoidable interface is diluted to an acceptable level before the intended recapped product continues to the end user. There are industry standards of what the acceptable dilution concentration is. So yes, you could have some free premium gasoline mixed in with regular gasoline. This is ok. Conversely, because aircraft have tighter fuel spec than cars there are trace amounts of jet fuel in gasoline. This is an unavoidable fact of life. Sometimes there are screw-ups and the allowable concentration of jet fuel in gasoline is exceeded and you have the stereotypical situation of “bad gas”. It happens but not on a repeated and regular basis at a specific gas station. It is random across the country.

Ok, back to the case of 400,000 BBL of premium gasoline that was injected into the pipeline (vegetable cart) by Shell, Exxon, Texaco and Conoco. As I mentioned, at the time this was written Florida has no refineries. We know how these four refineries get their gasoline to Florida - via barge or pipeline and truck. But how do the other folks like Amoco, Mobil, Chevron or Arco get their gasoline to their gas stations? They don’t. They take the raw gasoline provided by Shell, Exxon, Texaco and Conoco and blend in their own patented additives to make each name brand unique. So not only could you have trace amounts of jet fuel or premium gasoline in your tank of regular gasoline, what you just bought at the Chevron gas station may in fact have originated at the Exxon refinery.

The reason I bring up the last sentence in the previous paragraph is to dispel a myth. There is no such thing as “cheap stuff” gasoline. By law, the raw gasoline stock is the same as it leaves the refinery. Don’t care if it comes from a major worldwide oil company or a family owned independent. By law, the additives that each gasoline marketer blends into the raw stock have to result in minimum combustion performance per the EPA. However, it is reasonable to assume that the QA / QC employed by a major is better than a family owned biz. Quite simply, some of the unscrupulous little guys may be willing to expose themselves to an EPA fine due to careless bookkeeping. It is not right of me to name names, but here in Houston, there is an independent that does not keep as clean of a shop of as he should. If one major refinery doesn’t want to sell him raw gasoline stock, another one will. The major refineries can more easily prove that what they sold met spec, so if the consumer yells really really loud, the onus is on the independent to prove himself clean. This doesn’t happen very much because in all honesty, the consumer will just have his tank drained and vow to never shop at that gas station again. In the grand scheme of things - no big deal.

 

[Joel]

I read the long write up above.

So, if Shell has their own refinery and Shell sells raw fuel to another brand, say Chevron (just for argument's sake) and Chevron adds Tech-ron in it, it is then legally labeled as "Chevron gas." With me so far? So my question is, does Shell have their own additive that makes it specifically "Shell gas" or do they just leave it raw as it comes straight from the refinery and provide it to consumers as such?

 

[Yellow Rose]

Gas Is Gas, But Additives Are Not

So, if Shell has their own refinery and Shell sells raw fuel to another brand, say Chevron (just for argument's sake) and Chevron adds Tech-ron in it, it is then legally labeled as "Chevron gas." With me so far? So my question is, does Shell have their own additive that makes it specifically "Shell gas" or do they just leave it raw as it comes straight from the refinery and provide it to consumers as such?

Shell's gasoline that is sold to consumers at the pump, has Shell's own proprietary and patented additives blended in, which makes it "Shell gas". Same goes for Exxon, Mobil, Amoco, etc.

Shell's gasoline that is sold to other refiners is "raw" gas. Same goes for Exxon, Mobil, Amoco, etc. This raw gasoline, regardless of which refinery produced it, is chemically identical to each other.

 

[UrbanPilot]

I knew it!

I knew it that Andy was going to get in on this one. Thanks for all the insite on the topic.

BTW, where the hell were you for NSteXpo?

You know that Hanks was in town for it. What he goes several thousand miles and you cant make it some 4-5 hrs?

 

[nsxtasy]

Re: I knew it!

You know that Hanks was in town for it. What he goes several thousand miles and you cant make it some 4-5 hrs?

Hanks was there??? That "several" is actually around five, coming from here...

 

[AKUDOU]

Scuderia Ferrari use Shell...So I use Shell.

Shell Racing Solutions takes pole position


24/06/2003



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[Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach]

When I was in high school in Queens NY, I knew this Greek kid whose father owned a Shell station. They used to put the garden hose in the hole at night to get more money out of their big-tank fill up.

 

[AKUDOU]

When I was in high school in Queens NY, I knew this Greek kid whose father owned a Shell station. They used to put the garden hose in the hole at night to get more money out of their big-tank fill up.

I'm sure they are out of business,because water is heaver than gas so by opening time the first customer just got water.I guess he was into fixing carbs and injectors also and ripping his customers off. Sounds like a BS story to me. I think the true story is he was putting the hose in the tank to inhale the fumes.

 

[Black&Tan97Tnewportbeach]

That could be so, he was a crazy bullshitter. It was just one of those common-knowledge stories from growing up, hearing about various gas stations in NYC that "watered down" their gas supply was common.

 

[Lud]

That could be so, he was a crazy bullshitter. It was just one of those common-knowledge stories from growing up, hearing about various gas stations in NYC that "watered down" their gas supply was common.

Sounds like an urban legend... Water and gasoline don't mix.

Speaking of the fact that they don't mix, and that water is heavier than gas... Back in the old days when stations used suction pumps, the inlet tube was a few inches off the bottom of the tank and some stations would put water in the bottom of the tank instead of filling it with gas that they would effectively never sell. I'm talking several decades ago.

This is why people used to say not to get gas when the truck was filling the in-ground tanks - some of the water might be stirred up and pulled into the pump inlet if the station owner had put too much water down there. If you let it sit for a few minutes all the water would settle back to the bottom, just like oil-and-vinegar salad dressing settles out with the oil on top and vinegar on bottom a few minutes after you shake it up.

These days they use use pressure from submersible pumps instead of suction, and the inlet is right down at the bottom of the tank, so people don't put water in the tanks. Many (most?) of the pumps use filters that have a valve that will stop the flow if they pick up water.

It's also possible that a long time ago some unscrupulous dealers would "water down" their high-octane fuel with low-octane, though obviously that does not actually mean putting water in it. But the government is pretty active with testing these days and the penalties are strong enough that I think it is probably extremely rare that this happens on purpose anymore.

 

[NSX-Racer]

What kind of gas quality do you have in the U.S:??? Premium 93 octane?? is that your best one?

In Germany we have "Normal" (about 91-93), "Super" (about 95), "Super plus" (about 98) and the new Shell V power (100 octane!). For the NSX they recommend Super in the german manual (most Porsches need Super plus), but I tried the others with higher octane too. To say it frankly: I didn't notice any power difference during track driving - some others here noticed lower consumption with a high octan gas.

The latter may be an argument here: 1 litre (not gallon!) of Shell V power is about 1.18 Euro (ca. 1.38 US$) in Germany!