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NSX Lightning Lap

Joined
27 December 2008
Messages
711
Location
Bowser, BC, Canada
The NSX was tested on VIR as part of C&D's annual Lightning Lap test. It posted a time of 2:50.2.

This places the car 17th out of 201 lap times in the 10 years of lightning laps that the magazine has done. Still no instrumented review though, so it will most likely show up in the November issue.
 
Interesting. Is that in the Oct. print issue? If so, excited to get my hands on it.

For some context on the NSX's 2:50.2... seems to be about what one would expect:

2015 Porsche 918 Spyder
2:43.1

2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
2:44.6

2015 McLaren 650S Spider
2:45.8

2009 Mosler MT900S
2:45.9

2015 Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4
2:47.5

2008 Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR coupe
2:48.6

2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO
2:49.4

2012 Mosler Photon
2:49.8

2014 SRT Viper TA
2:49.9

2012 Ferrari 458 Italia
2:49.9

2015 Porsche 911 GT3
2:50.4

2012 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
2:50.7

2014 Ferrari F12berlinetta
2:50.8

2015 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
2:50.9

2016 Mercedes-AMG GT S
2:51.0

2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
2:51.2

2010 Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
2:51.8
 
That's actually a bit slower than I'd expected. The 458 was supposed to be their benchmark and they tested multiple times at VIR so I'd think that the NSX would have the measure of the 458 at that track. It's a respectable time but not impressive IMO. The AMG GT S weighs about the same and has 70 less horsepower but the NSX was only able to put a bit under a second of a gap on it over a 4.1 mile lap.

Gotta say it's disappointing to me. Not that I was going to buy one anyway, I've already pretty much decided to go for a 991.2 GT3. Maybe when the NSX-R drops I'll be in the game for that one.
 
Interesting. Is that in the Oct. print issue? If so, excited to get my hands on it.

For some context on the NSX's 2:50.2... seems to be about what one would expect:

2015 Porsche 918 Spyder
2:43.1

2015 Chevrolet Corvette Z06
2:44.6

2015 McLaren 650S Spider
2:45.8

2009 Mosler MT900S
2:45.9

2015 Lamborghini Huracán LP610-4
2:47.5

2008 Dodge Viper SRT10 ACR coupe
2:48.6

2015 Nissan GT-R NISMO
2:49.4

2012 Mosler Photon
2:49.8

2014 SRT Viper TA
2:49.9

2012 Ferrari 458 Italia
2:49.9

2015 Porsche 911 GT3
2:50.4

2012 Chevrolet Corvette ZR1
2:50.7

2014 Ferrari F12berlinetta
2:50.8

2015 Chevrolet Camaro Z/28
2:50.9

2016 Mercedes-AMG GT S
2:51.0

2014 Porsche 911 Turbo S
2:51.2

2010 Lamborghini Gallardo LP570-4 Superleggera
2:51.8
Great post.......thanks for the usable info
 
I think you have Wait and see what the rest of the cars did. Comparing cars from different years isn't exactly perfect. Weather could be totally different.
 
I think you have Wait and see what the rest of the cars did. Comparing cars from different years isn't exactly perfect. Weather could be totally different.
He gave the model years, you can compare them any way you want, where I live he weather is different everyday. I'll guess that they didn't all have the same driver.
Ive heard people compare "ring" times, different model years, different drivers, different weather......why do they do that!
 
List of leaked times here:

DllqemK.jpg

Thoroughly impressed by what the Corvette Grand Sport was able to do here. That time is good for 8th fastest ever, and it has 150 less hp than a lot of the other cars. 570S time is pretty damned quick, but the R8 time is baffling. Must've had some sort of issue to be that far off.
 
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Thanks, [MENTION=10416]G.Irish[/MENTION]. Agree that R8V10Plus time is odd. Seems like there must be a story there. Personally, I did not buy NSX to be a world-beater on the track, so I am happy that it is "in the mix" with a lot of pretty awesome cars. Obviously I was dreaming of being a bit closer to Z06 lap times, but that is a pretty tall order given the refinement (and incredible value) of the C7 lineup.

As I've said before, often the "First of the new era" (semi-affordable performance hybrid) is not a good as the "Best of the outgoing era." I'm OK with that.

My remaining fantasy is that, after a few hundred of these things are in the wild and getting some track abuse without problems, perhaps Acura can take a page out of Tesla's book and unlock a bit more performance from the hybrid system via software update in a year or so.
 
It comes down to tires. The R8 had regular P Zeros, not the Trofeos that the NSX had or the Pilot Sport Cup 2s that most of the other Supercars had.

Chances are that the NSX would post similar times if it was equipped with the Contis.

PS. According to the article, the track tires are a dealer-installed option, not a factory option. Also, this test was done over 3 days, driving 21 vehicles. Due to the power train setup, getting the most out of the NSX had a learning curve to it. It is possible that more seat time in the NSX could have yielded a better time.
 
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Thanks, [MENTION=21631]Olyar15[/MENTION]. Good color. The whole tire thing is a bit silly. Audi and Acura both dropped ball here, I think. Especially for the "Plus" R8 variant, I would think it a no-brainer to offer a max-performance tires as as option-- if only too "play the game" of having the car reviewed in "stock" trim. OTOH, I continue to feel that Acura is cheating by delivering testing cars with Trofeos that I cannot buy with my car. Of course my dealer can order up some from Tire Rack and install them--- but i get no credit for the stock tires. That is not an "option" in the conventional sense.

Finally, I really don't think you can explain six seconds of delta (on a ~3:00 lap) solely on tires. I would think three (maybe four) seconds more realistic (given that the "slow" tire is not *that* bad). I think the only fair conclusion is that the NSX is faster around this track than the R8 V10 Plus-- even though not fair to say six seconds faster given the tires and other random variables.
 
The R8 is tuned to be a more comfortable street car than its twin, the Huracan, and they noted that. They had issues with the suspension being somewhat unsettled in both high-speed transitions and under braking. They also noted the braking to be touchy. No doubt that, even with similar tires, the NSX would certainly be faster than the R8.

For those who don't have the issue yet:

1zyigk2.jpg


110iq2a.jpg


205z4ns.jpg
 
Help me understand how the NSX works running hard on the track. Do the electric motors do anything or is it just the engine? I thought it was just engine in this case.
 
It uses the EV motors as needed, but, in Track mode, it supposedly targets "consistent" performance versus dumping the battery on one hot lap and then running out of EV steam on the next lap. Presumably, in addition to harvesting as much juice as possible from regenerative braking, the car ALSO burns extra gas in the ICE when not under WOT in order to allow for "parasitic" charging even when off the brakes (think of the EV motor as a giant alternator sapping power from the ICE). As long as not under WOT, this strategy doesn't reduce the level of power requested from the driver. It would, however, tend to increase the heat in the system that needs to be dissipated (from extra load on the ICE plus various losses from shuttling all those electrons back and forth).

Net, net, on tracks with a long main straightaway, I suspect that you won't have enough EV juice to be WOT on ICE and EV through the straight (I think fronts cut out at ~130mph in any case) and still have enough juice to power out of Turn 1. In principle, you could have a "Time Attack" button that would tell the car to go balls-out through the start/finish line to squeeze a couple of tenths at the expense of unsustainable thermal load and draining battery way below the SOC required for "consistent" laps. But I am mostly speculating....
 
Guys, Lightning Lap is a joke. Don't take anything away from their results.

They use multiple drivers of GREATLY varying experience levels that can be over 3 seconds between them in the same car.

On top of that, they conduct the test over multiple days, which temperatures can cause a variance in time by a couple seconds on the same day.

Historic times are also useless because VIR has been replaced twice and widened in the last 3 years.

LL is one of the worst comparisons in automotive journalism. The NSX is not slower than the 458, and the GT350R is not slower than the Z28.
 
LL is one of the worst comparisons in automotive journalism.

i understand how these comparisons work as i've been involved in them before. but typically the fastest driver does all of the fastest laps in each car and they are used for direct comparison. usually there would/should be control tires also, to maintain an even playing field with tire grip.

several days in succession for testing is not usually gonna yield massively different times (unless the atmospheric conditions are drastically different obviously). if anything the times usually get faster as more rubber is laid down and the track gains more grip. drivers get more time in each vehicle and learn how to get the most out of them individually.

but as you said, measuring different drivers of varying abilities is completely absurd and has no basis for comparison whatsoever...
 
i understand how these comparisons work as i've been involved in them before. but typically the fastest driver does all of the fastest laps in each car and they are used for direct comparison. usually there would/should be control tires also, to maintain an even playing field with tire grip.

several days in succession for testing is not usually gonna yield massively different times (unless the atmospheric conditions are drastically different obviously). if anything the times usually get faster as more rubber is laid down and the track gains more grip. drivers get more time in each vehicle and learn how to get the most out of them individually.

but as you said, measuring different drivers of varying abilities is completely absurd and has no basis for comparison whatsoever...
As have I. But LL uses multiple drivers who are given 5-6 cars a piece, with the faster and cooler cars going to the more executive editors. If you have two competing cars that are within a second of eachother, LL often sees seconds between them due to a split in who was driving which car.

I'm sure you know that times can vary by second(s) over the course of the day, from the cool morning to the hot afternoon. LL's structure is quite bad:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ur2NY5n2Ok

I use to think that would be a great way to reduce a variable to compare cars but nowadays car mfgs work with tire mfgs to create car-specific bespoke tires which are dialed in for the car's weight, handling characteristics, aggressiveness (not all PSS tires are created equal -actually far from it), etc... If you use a control tire, it may greatly skew the results when the chassis setup of one car really needs a certain characteristic of stability, sidewall stiffeness, or outright grip.

I think new tires need to be used with pro driver/s early in the morning under the same conditions. But that's far from what LL does.
 
yeah, highly interesting format, slightly flawed also. but i suppose the best you can do with 25 different cars. it's for a print magazine, so not the end of the world.

i fully understand that modern day performance cars are made with very model specific tires, not much to be done about that. a spec tire for such a test, may benefit one vehicle and hinder another, but it's the closest thing to setting a baseline and removing that performance variable from the equation. i wouldn't imagine putting Trofeos on each car would be a negative for any of them.

i'm still baffled however if they don't have the fastest driver of all testers present making his fastest lap in each car, at around the same time of day with the same relative weather conditions. that's the biggest factor of them all.

i'm not surprised to see the 570S and 488 faster than the NSX. but i am surprised by how much. and i'm very surprised to see the Vette faster, and the R8 so much slower. there's definitely something more to tell with the R8. i'd expect it to be faster than the NSX, not 6 seconds a lap slower. honestly, i'd expect all three of the Supercars to be within 2, maybe 3 seconds of each other. not 11 seconds apart, that's ludicrous.

to me i would see the NSX having good traction and thrust off slow speed corners on a slow to medium speed track, that's where i'd see it's acceleration advantage with it's super low gearing to offset it's pretty hefty weight. but VIR is a (relatively) high speed flowing track where i don't see those puny 36 horsepower e-motors doing much when the car is already at speed. i'll have to read the entire article. is it at the news stand yet?

- - - Updated - - -

It comes down to tires. The R8 had regular P Zeros, not the Trofeos that the NSX had or the Pilot Sport Cup 2s that most of the other Supercars had.

Chances are that the NSX would post similar times if it was equipped with the Contis.

PS. According to the article, the track tires are a dealer-installed option, not a factory option. Also, this test was done over 3 days, driving 21 vehicles. Due to the power train setup, getting the most out of the NSX had a learning curve to it. It is possible that more seat time in the NSX could have yielded a better time.

i thought the purpose of the NSX's SH-AWD powertrain was it's seamless and superior ease of use. that's what Saddle keeps saying...

Thanks, @Olyar15. Good color. The whole tire thing is a bit silly. Audi and Acura both dropped ball here, I think. Especially for the "Plus" R8 variant, I would think it a no-brainer to offer a max-performance tires as as option-- if only too "play the game" of having the car reviewed in "stock" trim. OTOH, I continue to feel that Acura is cheating by delivering testing cars with Trofeos that I cannot buy with my car. Of course my dealer can order up some from Tire Rack and install them--- but i get no credit for the stock tires. That is not an "option" in the conventional sense.

Finally, I really don't think you can explain six seconds of delta (on a ~3:00 lap) solely on tires. I would think three (maybe four) seconds more realistic (given that the "slow" tire is not *that* bad). I think the only fair conclusion is that the NSX is faster around this track than the R8 V10 Plus-- even though not fair to say six seconds faster given the tires and other random variables.

tires aren't cheating. anyone can go down to the local tire shop and get anything you want. or if you're lazy, you can sit on your fat arse and do it on the computer. so no cheating there, this has been covered before.

as far as the R8 Plus being 6 seconds down on the NSX when it is usually up? it typically laps as fast or faster than the Huracan, so there's more to that story...
 
2:49.9 458 Italia
2:50.2 NSX
2:51.2 911 Turbo S

It's interesting how the NSX's lap time is essentially the same as that of Honda's stated benchmarks, the 458 Italia and 911 Turbo S. Ted Klaus was not lying when he said the NSX would meet or exceed the performance of those two cars. It will be interesting to see if a track focused NSX-R can do equally well against the other track focused models such as the GT3 RS.
 
Aussie - it's likely the driver of the NSX & GT350R was different from the rest of the high performance/Supercars. They really only have 1 decent driver. That's my gripe with the whole thing, people blindly view the results as fact when there is so much fundamentally wrong with the whole procedure.

Its almost as useless as going to a track day and arguing a Miata is outright faster than a given supercar because that's what the time sheets show.
 
Everyone seems to think the NSX time is disappointing, yet which of the cars that have the faster times in the C&D article would you actually buy?

Vette? Really?!
GT3 RS for $300,000. Ouch!
488GTB for $350,000. Ouch!
ACR? Really?!

That leaves us with the 570S which appears to provide a good combination of price, exotic looks, and performance. The only real downside is McLaren reliability and number of service centers.
 
The cheapest 570S currently on cars.com is $193K, so $20K more than my car. The highest spec 570S came in above $250K
 
Yes. Why not? Not fast or purdy enough for you?

Not exotic enough. I see them all the time on the road, even in locales where expensive sports cars are uncommon. And despite it being one of the best sports car values available, I don't see many NSX owners interested in making the switch. Why is that?
 
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