From those of you have installed the NSX-R front Stabilizer Bar, did you notice any improvement in cornering performance-roll? Does this add noticeable performance increase beyond the NSX-R Chassis bars?
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NSX-R Stabilizer Bar
- Thread starter kreh
- Start date
I'm running Tein type RE suspension and nsx R front swaybar. I don't like it. Even though my suspension is supposed to reduce understeer and even add oversteer, the Type R front sway ended up making the car understeer worst than stock in tighter situations. Personally, I don't like it. I'm going Dali 1" Track bars front and rear next.
See if you guys are talking about tracking the car then I don't know. I'm running Bilsteins with the NSX-R chassis bars and sway bar. I like it.
kreh,
I installed both the chassis bars and the stabilizer bar (chassis bar first) within a day of each other, and that's probably not alot of time to honestly evaluate the merits of each on an individual basis.
Just my novice preception: with just the chassis bars, initial and mid corner turn in appeared to be more positive and precise. No real tendancy towards understeer or oversteer in tight corners with stock sways (93).
After adding the stabilizer bar (and keeping the stock 93 rear bar), body roll seemed to be better in most corners, but tended to push more than the stock front bar in tight corners if the the front end was loaded up quickly.
FWIW, my $0.02.
Good luck,
Charles
I installed both the chassis bars and the stabilizer bar (chassis bar first) within a day of each other, and that's probably not alot of time to honestly evaluate the merits of each on an individual basis.
Just my novice preception: with just the chassis bars, initial and mid corner turn in appeared to be more positive and precise. No real tendancy towards understeer or oversteer in tight corners with stock sways (93).
After adding the stabilizer bar (and keeping the stock 93 rear bar), body roll seemed to be better in most corners, but tended to push more than the stock front bar in tight corners if the the front end was loaded up quickly.
FWIW, my $0.02.
Good luck,
Charles
You don't want understeer on tighter corners, so you added an NSX R front bar, understeered worse on tight corners, and now you're going to a bigger 1" Dali bar?
Well everyone raved about the type R bar, so I tossed it on the same time I did my tein RE install. My results were considerably less than positive for myself. I can't evaluate the value of each "upgrade" on it's own since they both went on at the same time. I didn't think the difference would of been that noticable in understeer by adding the bar. At the time, "everyone" loved it, so I might also. I was wrong.
Since then I've become more knowledgable of suspension. Now my understanding is, bigger front sway, more understeer. Bigger rear swaybar, add oversteer/reduce understeer. So yes, you would be right by saying I should go with bigger rear, but I'd like to try out a matched set of bigger front AND rear. Maybe by also going bigger in rear also, would overcome some of the tendency to understeer caused by just going bigger in the front.
my personal impression of completely stock 93 suspension was, it's pretty damn nice. A little bit of understeer that could be dialed pretty nicely with a thicker rear bar. But I wanted to do as "badass" of a suspension setup I could with my budget restraints. One that'll walk all over the stock stuff in terms of pure performance and give up a decent amount of street comfort in return.
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KoolAid i had the same issue. I added the NSX R chassis bars and had a tremdous amount of understeer. Alot more effort was needed to take some sharp turns i normally take on my everyday drive. I then added the Dali 0.875" swaybars and the car now handles amazing. Take in mind i dont track it but do get on it when i have the chance early in the morning or late at night. One thing i will advise is since the sways you are considering are slightly thicker, you will need to wrap the bar where it goes over the NSX-R lower chassis bar. I used black foam that AC installers use. On hard bumps my sway bar tends to hit the spare tire tray. The thicker you go from waht i was told, leavers less room for error. I like to have it slightly tail happy from time to time.
The feedback we have gotten from customers who have had us install the type R brace and also thicker sway bar was that the car turned in a lot better and stayed more flat through out the turn.
Happy motoring
Rob
Happy motoring
Rob
That's what larger front swaybars do, as well as generate a little more low-speed understeer...
is this possibly a placebo affect? As aforementiong most cars' suspensions are pretty consistent with the bigger sways in front adds more understeer while a larger sway in the rear will induce oversteer easier idea. I always wondered why the R variant of the NSX would require a larger front sway. My only guess would be that a firm suspension in the rear would make the rear more likely to step out than our softer sprung and dampened USDM NSXs, hence the larger sway was needed.
That .875" dali bars you mention, did you swap out the type R front sway for a full set of .875" dali bars?
Yeah, I get lots of understeer in tighter corners and in tight hairpins and such, it ends up pushing. The only plus side is, I NEVER had to worry about losing the back end even when they were bald. I do NOT want the S2k feel, but something between the oem nsx and oem s2k.
As it sits right now, it's not bad for high speed runs through the mountains but my favorite stomping grounds get pretty tight and twisty and that's where I notice the car pushing and understeering.
Per NSX Prime & SOS recommendations, I have installed the chassis stiffner (Front & Bottom set) along with the NSX-R anti-sway bar. I also installed Tein Monflex Coilovers at the same time to get the full effect of the suspension upgrade. Very noticeable and worth the mod. In my opinion, the most worthwhile mod. for the money...
Highly recommend...:biggrin:
BJX
Highly recommend...:biggrin:
BJX
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after finishing the install of the NSXR chassis bar and NSXR front sway, i contacted Mark at Dali on how the handling was effected. He told me to take out the front NSXR sway and run thicker sway bars. A thicker sway bar would add more oversteer, eliminating some the massive understeer that was added. Playing with the front as mentioned before added understeer to the car which is already loaded with understeer from the factory. At first i was a bit confused since i thought, how can that be true by adding the same size swaybar in the front? In the end i was well satisfied with how precise it know drives.
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If you follow the note in the end it states that "Not every correction will always work as expected. Stiffer front sway bars will, in many cases, decrease understeer because of reduced body roll and better camber control".
I run the Tein Flex (10/12 springs) + Type R chassis bars with stock sway bars. The ride is pretty equilibrate. Going with the front Type R bar without a stiffer sway rear would induce to much understeer I think.
That sounds like some sort of disclaimer that people say when they aren't sure what the heck they are talking about. Stiffer in front means more understeer and vice-versa.
I'm not sure you can get around this. I imagine you'd have to have a wrecked car with some broken components to find a case where stiffer front sway bar reduced understeer.
To get back on track, the chassis bars add stiffness to the chassis which is good for consistent handling and overall car set up ability. I believe that they tend to add stiffness which for front chassis bars, adds understeer. But, adding chassis bars should be a minor (and unadjustable) change in handling.
Sway bars are meant to be used as a pair. (Just like springs, shocks, etc.) If you upgrade sway bars, you usually need both of them. Most aftermarket sway bars are adjustable. If you have the front chassis bars on, you might choose a stiffer sway bar setting in rear than someone who doesn't have the chassis bars.
To summarize the issues so far, the front chassis bar will likely add some understeer. Going with a stiffer front sway bar in addition will also add understeer. If you did both, you probably have a lot of understeer and a car that handles poorly.
Upgrading by pair of sway bars, front plus rear, will likely give you enough adjustablity, with or without chassis bars, to get a balance you like.
Camber control? We don't have struts :wink:
I noticed some decrease in roll. I did both the sway bar and chassis bars at the same time. I know the theory says it will understeer more, but realize this theoretically only happens when you pass the limit of your tires grip. On an autocross course, or race track, a little overstear might be nice. On the street, with a mid engine car, a little understeer is more confidence inducing and safer(aka less likely to total your car). And actually, mine doesn't understeer, if feels 100% neutral. And with a blip of the throttle you have all the overstear you can handle anyways.
I highly recommend the mod. It made me a lot more confident with the car. I feel like I can push it closer to its limits now without wrecking it.
Not to be an ass or anything, but I highly respect your abilities and knowledge as a driver BUT..... I noticed you do more.....i don't know a good term, picking on, than you would assist with your technical knowledge and know how. Well in this thread anyways. What are your true view points on everyone's input so far?
Typically in a car that has struts (BMW M3, MR2, what-have-you) you would use either springrate or swaybars (preferably) to reduce body roll. This is because the static camber (whatever your camber is set at) is the most you'll ever get. Their is not camber-gain through the compression of wheel travel.
As the body rolls, your effective camber is reduced. Lets say you have -2.0* of camber and your body rolls over 2.5*, your tire would in effect, have +0.5* of camber. If you reduce the body roll to 1.0*, then you would have an effective -1.5* of camber.
NSXs have upper and lower a-arms and have a decent amount of camber gain -as the wheel travels, it gains camber.
You don't HAVE TO replace both front and rear swaybars at the same time or to an equivalent thickness. A lot depends on your overall car's setup. Camber, spring rate, rake, tires, etc... Many racing NSXs had small rear sway bars (if atall) relative to the front.
Larger swaybar will help turn-in and make the inputs quicker and more responsive. In lower speed (tight) hairpins or in autoX use, a bigger front bar would create understeer.
Everything is a balance and the way you drive it. If you have a bigger front bar that turns-in better but understeers through tight corners. Later-apex the corner with more entry speed.
Its hard to make generalized blanket statments (even though i did on this thread). Instead, more information on one's setup, how they are driving their car, what its doing, and what they want it to do. Most often the wrong inputs are given to a car for an undesirable outcome.
$0.02 -canadian
Thanks to everyone on this. Your thoughts and experience is appreciated. The chassis bars were a great mod for me. I will defer on the sway at this point.
Now that's what I'm talking about! You the man!
.02 canadian or peso, I'll take it.
.02 canadian or peso, I'll take it.
Are you aware that the NSX-R lower chassis bar will interfere with the stock front sway bar? When you go over something like a speed bump or a dip in the road, the front suspension will compress, which will pivot the stock sway bar and make it hit the lower chassis bar. The NSX-R bar is shaped to avoid this. The problem is also worsened if the car is lowered.
My nsx-r front sway bar doesn't hit anything metal but it does rub against my lower radiator hose. Boy I can't wait to get rid of that thing and try something new.
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