What lawn mower?
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NSX vs Porsche 911 GT3RS at Infineon Raceway (Sears Point)
- Thread starter 1K2GO
- Start date
What lawn mower?
A very immature and childish person posted disparaging remarks about Honda only being famous for their lawnmowers. After several attempts to reason with him only seemed to insight him further, I finally decided to delete his comments and band the wise-a$$.
Nice driving, and good luck with the new clutch. I'd say you can definitely claim skill over the drivers in the faster cars. Sears Point is a track I'd love to drive. I think I'll try and put together a west-coast tour for myself at some point and knock out that and Laguna Seca in the same couple of weeks.
The shuffle vs. fixed thing is a stupid argument because driving and car control are as much art as science. Yes, while you're a beginner it's best to develop consistent habits, but in the end you have to keep your hands in the best position to control the car. As someone who autocrosses as well as tracks my car I can say that the more technical the course, the more likely you'll have to shuffle at least a little to keep from getting your arms crossed up badly, and crossed-arms reduce your options for steering input.
I'm no instructor (yet), but here's a vid of Johannes van Overbeek driving the same track. He repositions his hands at approximately the same places that you do. If it's good enough for him....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZswRheergMU
The shuffle vs. fixed thing is a stupid argument because driving and car control are as much art as science. Yes, while you're a beginner it's best to develop consistent habits, but in the end you have to keep your hands in the best position to control the car. As someone who autocrosses as well as tracks my car I can say that the more technical the course, the more likely you'll have to shuffle at least a little to keep from getting your arms crossed up badly, and crossed-arms reduce your options for steering input.
I'm no instructor (yet), but here's a vid of Johannes van Overbeek driving the same track. He repositions his hands at approximately the same places that you do. If it's good enough for him....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZswRheergMU
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Thanks for the vote of confidence R13 and thanks for the youtube link. Brings back fond memories of my P-car racing days. The only issue I have with your post is that I am anything but a beginner. I raced a 911RSR throughout the 1980's & 90's, and a well prepped 300hp JCW Mini Cooper up until last year.Nice driving, and good luck with the new clutch. I'd say you can definitely claim skill over the drivers in the faster cars. Sears Point is a track I'd love to drive. I think I'll try and put together a west-coast tour for myself at some point and knock out that and Laguna Seca in the same couple of weeks.
The shuffle vs. fixed thing is a stupid argument because driving and car control are as much art as science. Yes, while you're a beginner it's best to develop consistent habits, but in the end you have to keep your hands in the best position to control the car. As someone who autocrosses as well as tracks my car I can say that the more technical the course, the more likely you'll have to shuffle at least a little to keep from getting your arms crossed up badly, and crossed-arms reduce your options for steering input.
I'm no instructor (yet), but here's a vid of Johannes van Overbeek driving the same track. He repositions his hands at approximately the same places that you do. If it's good enough for him....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZswRheergMU
The only thing I'm beginning at is my transition to the NSX which I am enjoying immensely.
Here's a link to my build & bio:
Building a $50K Track Tool to beat $500K Track Tools
While we're on the subject of fast Porsches... Looks like a handful...
900hp Porsche 996 Turbo at Infineon
900hp Porsche 996 Turbo at Infineon
Missed you at Infineon yesterday and today.
One more reference point for you.
Ryan (ryneen) was lapping 1:52's today on his 2nd day (1st time he's been up here) at Infineon with NT01's, his engine is a bone stock 3.0 using the OEM exhaust and some sport cats IIRC.
There was also a stock GT3RS 4.0 with half a cage and R comps doing 1:48's.
One more reference point for you.
Ryan (ryneen) was lapping 1:52's today on his 2nd day (1st time he's been up here) at Infineon with NT01's, his engine is a bone stock 3.0 using the OEM exhaust and some sport cats IIRC.
There was also a stock GT3RS 4.0 with half a cage and R comps doing 1:48's.
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Car's still down but I would have given anything to be there today. I am registered for the SV event at Infineon on 25, May. Not too many players so far.
I must say from experience Honda's lawnmowers are great.
The NSX is even better:smile:
I think you misread that a bit. My point was that I would expect a beginner to try harder to adhere to some set hand-position rule rather than shuffling when appropriate. You're clearly past that.
I like to go and watch in-car from a current pro driving a course I've been to after watching my own video to see how close I get to lines, and steering input.
I'd be curious how you'd compare the NSX's handling tendencies to the old Porsches. Mid & Rear engined cars, from my experience do share some characteristics.
In '911 speak' we call it 'sawing' as in sawing at the wheel. I've got some old in car video of me in my 911 at Riverside International Raceway, before I put a Quaife differential in it and the best way to describe my technique is 'BUSY'.
I've raced everything from carts to sports cars to open wheel formula cars and I even have a few laps in stock cars. Going from a track prepped rear engine 911RSR to a track prepped front engine/front drive Mini Cooper S, then back to a mid-engine NSX is a bit of a shock to the system. After a short period of adjustment back to rear end bias, I am constantly amazed at the abilities of my NSX. Now that it is 'sorted' it is far and away the best handling production based street car I've ever tracked.
Every track car has a center of gravity or pivot point. A rear engine 911's pivot point is directly over the rear wheels, which is why they have such great traction on corner exit. The NSX's pivot point is forward of the rear axles and feels like its directly connected to my spine, so I feel much more connected and active, especially on turn in and in transitions. Honda really got it right.
:biggrin: cracked me up. Could not have said it better.
if I were to waste time concentrate on achieving 10-2 psychobabble I guarantee my lap times would suffer. I just use my eyes and all my senses to steer the thing on the right line, with accelerator on the floor as often as possible, and on brake as little as possible, and all without getting sideways ... whatever combination feels right and gets good times is right. it's lap times that matter, not dumb rules. your handiwork looks pretty damn good to me, and I've got thousands of laps under my belt
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Thanks Sparky, I appreciate your sentiments. The internet is full of monday morning quarterbacks. Posting an in-car vid on Prime opens me up for criticism. The one thing I've tried to emphasize about this video is that it is not my fastest laps, it is my slowest. This session was my first laps at Sears/Infineon with this car and I was trying to be conservative while I brought the car and myself up to temperature. It's a shame I didn't have the opportunity to see what the car is really capable of on that track, but there's always next time. I am scheduled to be back there on 05/25 with Speed Ventures and so far it's looking promising we'll make that date (fingers crossed).
I think I saw your car there two weekends ago. I was the silver '91 running with the Speedventures. It was my first time at Infineon and I loved it. I'll try to post my video as well. What was your lap times?
Hey Ken! It was a blast seeing you again and swapping passenger seats. Being a passenger in your yellow NSX was my first real track memory and it was great to catch up with you again! I learned a few things from you at Infineon which helped my lap times. I think I can get another 1 second or so on my next trip. I'm leaving a lot on the table in 2 and through the esses until 10.
I don't know if you noticed the vibration in my car, but my wheel weights came off the front right wheel and I thought I had a bent rim. It was so bad that I couldn't see out of my mirrors over 60mph. Ha. I can't believe how much weight they had to add when I got my wheels rebalanced at home yesterday.
Hi ryneen, I wasn't at the SV event two weeks ago. The video was from HOD event on 04/23. My only laps were the ones you see on the video and they were all in traffic. I am signed up for the SV at Infineon/Sears this coming friday. There's plenty of spaces left so please try and make it up if possible.
Would be great to have a large posse of NSX's.
FUN DAY! I started the day (sessions 1 & 2) on my old Toyo R888's well past their heat cycle prime. After switching to the R6's (session 3 & 4) we were lapping in the 1:52's in traffic until the rains came. Had some great duels with a hi hp Viper GTS, a couple of well prepped ZO6's, and what seemed like the entire PCA (Porsche Club of America). I've got some good in-car video that I'll post in the next couple days.
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Fun indeed; Robert had his entire garage and entourage with him. This guy brings two sest of track tires, two sets of wings ........ :biggrin:
Ken was there too ...... my student drove his S2K all the way from Las Vegas! Too bad, too sad that many other NSX owners weren't there.
And there were some real fast cars on the track; some of the Porsches were in a class by themselves.
:biggrin:Ken was there too ...... my student drove his S2K all the way from Las Vegas! Too bad, too sad that many other NSX owners weren't there.
And there were some real fast cars on the track; some of the Porsches were in a class by themselves.
Fun indeed; Robert had his entire garage and entourage with him. This guy brings two sest of track tires, two sets of wings ........
Ken was there too ...... my student drove his S2K all the way from Las Vegas! Too bad, too sad that many other NSX owners weren't there.
And there were some real fast cars on the track; some of the Porsches were in a class by themselves.
Hey, go big or go home, right?
Good thing I brought those 'extra' tires cuz Ken was having my lunch when i was on the tired Toyos. His Boxter can scoot! Great meeting all you guys. Can't wait to do it again.
Hey, go big or go home, right?
Good thing I brought those 'extra' tires cuz Ken was having my lunch when i was on the tired Toyos. His Boxter can scoot! Great meeting all you guys. Can't wait to do it again.
Nice meeting you as well.
I timed you for about 8 laps during the 3rd sessions and your times were definitely improving relative to the first 2 sessions bunch of 1:57-1:53 while mixed in traffic as far as I could time with the iPhone stopwatch. Saw you battling it out with the decked out Viper for a couple of laps gaining on him little by little as you approached T11, seems that you were braking way deeper into T11 on the 3rd session and having a better exit out of T11 as well.
I didn't notice the different wings until I saw Ditto's (gotbluemilk) pictures that you posted. Compared to the Billy Johnson $50.00 backyard special wing that ryneen runs on his car, it's like a pro-team vs grass roots-team contrast
. Different ways of achieving similar goals .BTW: The driver of the Aqua Blue Boxster Spyder was Ben (bensf over at rennlist/planet-9). I was driving in the S/A2 run group, still working on getting my car sorted out, the OEM suspension on my Cayman R is a bit too soft when pushing hard. I'm really amazed that Ben gets into the 1:53-1:54's with the OEM suspension on his Boxster Spyder, he's a really good driver considering that he started tracking about 18 months ago
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It was nice seeing you as well Ryan.
I did notice the crazy vibration, the front hood of your NSX looked like it was ready to fly off when I rode with you. I thought that it was due to perhaps your car not having the ducting/shroud to go with the vented hood.
I'll see if I can make it to Laguna with Speedventures next month, the yearly Mazda/Yamaha friends and family track days seemed to have been taken down from TrackMasters event calendar
Nice meeting you as well.
I timed you for about 8 laps during the 3rd sessions and your times were definitely improving relative to the first 2 sessions bunch of 1:57-1:53 while mixed in traffic as far as I could time with the iPhone stopwatch. Saw you battling it out with the decked out Viper for a couple of laps gaining on him little by little as you approached T11, seems that you were braking way deeper into T11 on the 3rd session and having a better exit out of T11 as well.
I didn't notice the different wings until I saw Ditto's (gotbluemilk) pictures that you posted. Compared to the Billy Johnson $50.00 backyard special wing that ryneen runs on his car, it's like a pro-team vs grass roots-team contrast
BTW: The driver of the Aqua Blue Boxster Spyder was Ben (bensf over at rennlist/planet-9). I was driving in the S/A2 run group, still working on getting my car sorted out, the OEM suspension on my Cayman R is a bit too soft when pushing hard. I'm really amazed that Ben gets into the 1:53-1:54's with the OEM suspension on his Boxster Spyder, he's a really good driver considering that he started tracking about 18 months ago
Ken & Ben! Sorry for the mix up :biggrin:
Yep, switching to the Hoosiers for session 3 made all the difference. They make the Toyos feel like street tires. I was able to run much deeper into 7 & 11 and keep my rpms 2-300rpm higher thru every corner. There is no comparison - 3 to 4 second per lap. I was also testing the GT500 wing vs the GT-One wing which the jury is still out. I used the GT500 wing for sessions 1-3 and switched to the GT-One for the last session. Unfortunately the rain slowed the track significantly for our last session so I will have to try again next time.
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The GT-3 driver was not very good. He obviously had way more hp in a straight line than your NSX, but you kept catching him in the corners. If not for the clutch failure, I predict you would have gone inside him in Turn 11 and passed on that same lap. He would have pussied out after the pass that he wouldn't have been able to catch you on the front straight.
Infineon is by far my favorite road course I have ever run, and I have run on every road course in California and Nevada.
BTW, you are a little timid in passing. You should have taken the white Evo X way before you did.
Infineon is by far my favorite road course I have ever run, and I have run on every road course in California and Nevada.
BTW, you are a little timid in passing. You should have taken the white Evo X way before you did.
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100% Agreed
Me too, but did you ever race at RIR (Riverside). By far and away the greatest track I've ever raced at and I've also raced at all the major and most of the minor tracks on the left coast.
No, I'm not, I'm being patient while I warm my tires and brain. This was the 1st green lap of the 1st session of the day and I was in no hurry.
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- 15 June 2010
- Messages
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OK, I can see your point about when to pass the Evo in the first session of the day. Never ran RIR -- my first open track day was in 2003 and I started W2W racing in 2008. The top of my bucket list is racing Spa Francorchamps in Belgium, second is Bathurst in Austalia, and third is Le Circuit Mont Tremblant in Quebec.
