Planning on building the ultimate NSXs - Resuka Design - Would anyone buy them?

[neoprufrok]

I have an interesting question for you guys - a little market research for me. I just started Resuka Design - a company that initially was meant to custom build and produce body kits that have both form and function. It has morphed into something else entirely. After displaying my car at SEMA with the kit 70% where I wanted it, I had two people come up to me and ask me if I could build custom NSXs but make them ultimate NSXs. I then talked to Shad Huntley, GT Auto Concepts, Aria Group (custom fabrication of CF parts - they do a lot of concept car work for major corporations), Sound Innovations (I think one of the best audio guys around the bay area), Rick Ko, and Cook's Custom Upholstery. We have the unique ability to build the 2 Resuka NSXs - a streetable track version and a trackable street version. It's modeled after the Singer 911 - http://singervehicledesign.com. Singer is basically the coolest restomod designer around. I've talked to Rob Dickinson (founder and head of Singer) and he loves my idea. As a reminder, Singer takes 964 911s, strip them down, and rebuild them to a level of detail and obsession that eclipses anything out there not coming directly from the factory.


So my question is, would you or do you think others with the means would buy an NSX made from the ground up to be the ultimate NSX? Basically, a Singer Design version of an NSX. What would you or others consider a decent price? Singer charges 400k-500k for their cars. Obviously I would be out of business if I even came close. But since this is more a hobby and side business (I have a pretty busy day job), as long as I make some money for the partners in this, I would be happy. I myself don't need to make money at all.


I can't go into too much details, but my car will be the rolling prototype for the Track Version. We are doing everything to top spec and all performance mods (and yes, the wide body is a performance mod) is developed from long discussions with Shad:


Goal Benchmarks:
Dry Weight - 2500-2600lbs
Power - 500-600whp


Process:
1. Customer provides donor NSX
2. NSX is stripped down and everything removed
3. Chassis braced and welded at key points to increase rigidity.
4. Bare chassis rust coated and reapineted in color of owner's choice.
5. Engine/Transmission rebuilt to Resuka Specs and mechanicals installed.
6. Body panels reinstalled and fit to 4mm gaps all around.
7. Custom interior installed.


Donor car: I believe strongly that that the early pop-up headlight coupes are the best cars out there. It was the original design of the car - and the one I fell in love with. So we plan on doing this to early coupes, with manual steering.


Body: My custom designed dry carbon CF for all body panels. We will cut out the roof and replace with dry CF. All splitters/diffusers will be CF as well. Controversial, I know - as the aluminum body was pretty lightweight to begin with but the density of aluminum is 2.7gm/mL whereas that of CF is 1.6-2.0 at the most. That's significant enough for me.


Engine: Twin turbo 3.5L - lower boost for reliability purposes.


Transmission: Floor mounted pedal box (still in the air). Rebuilt 5 speed, with OS Giken LSD.


Brakes: Brembo GT or GT-R Calipers with Type 3 discs. Carbon Ceramic is optional - but not necessary.


Suspension: Custom Ohlins designed setup with external reservoirs.


Steering: Will be experimenting with various wheel diameters.


Seats: Tillet CF seats.


Restraints/Harness: 5 or 6 point Schroth Harness with built in harness bars.


Interior: Alcantara/Nappa leather mix. Higher quality Berber-style carpeting. CF trim pieces for window controls and center stack.


ICE: Custom designed CF sub box with Focal/Mosconi/Illusion Audio/Alpine system weighing less than 15lbs total (yes, my sound guys have done the research - this is completely possible).


Resuka Design Subtle Badging throughout. Each Resuka car will be named after major or important Asian cities. The first rolling prototype will be named Resuka Tochigi, in reference to the NSX assembly city.


I know this sounds like a pipe dream or craziness. But being that a few people have already expressed interest, I think its possible. It may fail miserably - but I have great partners who are more excited than I've seen them before. It's a work in progress and I expect it to take 1-2 years to build the prototype. I am also going to track test the prototype - I want this car to drive like it came off the Honda assembly line.


It may end up being a big waste of my money, and I may back out due to financial pressures - but sometimes I feel, you have to go for it all if you have an idea you want to pursue. And my goal is to build the best NSX that you can buy.


I'm open to all opinions... sorry for the long post.

 

[blue_myriddn]

Interesting idea, here are my brief thoughts:

1. Open yourself up to customer options on a few elements. Especially if you are talking very small production (~5) you will want to deal with people who want to be involved in the design. Rather than it being "the ultimate NSX" it would be "THEIR ultimate NSX" if you understand what I mean. As long as you are stripping the car down anyways, you should be able to do a lot of different things.

2. Consider a non-Carbon fiber model. That seems costly and might not appeal to everyone. Unless of course this is required for the body kit you have already designed.

3. Have any pictures of your SEMA car that you can include in the thread?

4. Just my back of the envelope estimates, but I would say that your target price should be around donor car + $100k in order to hit your market. No clue if this is reasonable or not, just my impression.

 

[neoprufrok]

Interesting idea, here are my brief thoughts:

1. Open yourself up to customer options on a few elements. Especially if you are talking very small production (~5) you will want to deal with people who want to be involved in the design. Rather than it being "the ultimate NSX" it would be "THEIR ultimate NSX" if you understand what I mean. As long as you are stripping the car down anyways, you should be able to do a lot of different things.

2. Consider a non-Carbon fiber model. That seems costly and might not appeal to everyone. Unless of course this is required for the body kit you have already designed.

3. Have any pictures of your SEMA car that you can include in the thread?

4. Just my back of the envelope estimates, but I would say that your target price should be around donor car + $100k in order to hit your market. No clue if this is reasonable or not, just my impression.

All great thoughts.

1) There will be definitely some customizable options. I plan that the "Trackable Street" version will be the main one. We'll likely offer engine options and other customizable optios.

2) It's actually cheaper just to make CF and build the car in house. Once the mold is built and we start tooling to make CF parts (and it will be everything), the car will be fitted with the CF pieces on a bare frame - no mechanicals installed) so that adjustments can be made. the cost of CF these days is not too bad - and a few companies have been talking to me about prices.

3) SEMA car was a horrendously early prototype (I'm man enough to admit it wasn't to my liking) because Toyo allowed us the spot late in the game and we had a ridiculously small amount of time to build the working prototype to gauge interest. The SEMA car is also the "Steerable Track" version - basically a track level car that can be driven around once in awhile. But here are some pics (again - realize that a lot of this won't be on the final car except for the outrageous rear hips - that is necessary for the non camber, 345 profile tires we will run on the track level car).









4) That cost... probably a little higher depending on what we include in the final build. The main thing is I want people to get in the car and say... "This is like an NSX, but feels like I a modern car in the way it drives and runs." I don't want someone to get in the car and drive and say.. "this feels old."

 

[docjohn]

for the more streetable version you will need a little more suspension travel than the show car.

 

[neoprufrok]

for the more streetable version you will need a little more suspension travel than the show car.

Good point. Even the track car above - that was dropped just for SEMA. It will be raised 1/2" to an inch for travel.

 

[Boostedtaco]

I like the body kit. I would be interested in that.

 

[01a4man]

I think you have a great idea, but are using on the wrong platform. Not to sound like a debbie-downer here, but your reference point is apples to oranges. The NSX will never and has never had the following that Porsche, BMW, or other makes have had, or still have. Older 911's, E30 M3's, etc. all sell for larger sums of money than a 91 NSX. That is unless that 91 NSX has been in some collectors garage and has a few thousand miles on it. Buyers for this type of car are far and few in between.

When I first joined Prime there were quite a few guys who invested serious sums of money into their cars. That list has dropped dramatically to say the least. If I am not mistaken, Anil's car is the highest dollar NSX sold thus far that I am aware of state side. His sold for a little over $100k to a collector who drooled over getting an NSX-R, or the next best thing. There are still cars that have huge investments into them; however, the chance of selling one of these cars for anything near what was put into them is next to impossible. This includes those who have purchased the newer 02+ models that still command higher dollar values.

1. A 3.5 will run you approximately $30k'ish with cams, valve springs, retainers, etc. Upwards of $50k if you find someone who still wants to be able to return the car to stock and you purchase a new short block and heads.

2. I assume when you say twin-turbo you are speaking of SoS's Kit, which will run you $14k. This is unless you plan to design your own, which will involve R&D Costs.

3. The closest thing you will find to Brembo GT-R's for the NSX is the old Indy Brake Kit. If you are able to find one now, they will run you serious money. Think upwards of $8k'ish. The regular brembo set up front and rear is right at $8k. Dave (Turbo2Go), is the only one that I know of running Carbon Ceramic brakes on an NSX and I know what he paid for his kit. He got this kit for substantially less than what the kit sells for, which is $11k.

4. Dry Carbon costs money. Unless you have an Autoclave, you are going to be paying some serious money for time spent during the process. What would your estimated cost per kit be? What would be your price point?

5. The price point for the custom Ohlins Suspension will probably be somewhere around the cost of a Moton Club Sport or Motorsport that range from $6k to $10k.

6. The floor mounted pedal box would involve more R&D.

7. The interior is going to cost some serious money too. Perhaps not so much in material, per say, but rather in man hours. Ravi with Umbrella Design used to charge in the neighborhood of $17k to do a full interior to the degree you are talking about.

You obviously have money, so there is may, or may not impact you financially. I would think if you really researched this forum (i.e. build threads), and look at the average car on here, you would find that the market conditions do not support this type of venture. As much as I love my car, I still kick myself in the ass at times for not buying a Gallardo, a McLaren, or some other high-line exotic with the money I have put in a 2005 NSX.

I truly believe that you would be better served marketing the interest shown in your kit and going from there, rather than jumping head-long into a complete product.

Just my two cents, but I do like the idea. I just believe that the effort would be better served on a different make of an iconic nature.

 

[nsxnut]

Here are my thoughts.

You need to build a street car. Most NSX drivers won't track their car. They want all the looks and goodies but will never take it to the track.
They need to be able to drive it around and show it off. It needs to be street legal.

They like creature comforts.
A track only car won't sell. How many NSX's do you see at the track? I out there but usually the only one.

A track prepared NSX is too harsh for most of the NSX drivers. Suspension is to stiff, Wide tires rub and can't turn full lock.
Nose may scrape a driveway. My car is a street legal track car and most NSX owners think I am nuts.
Suspension is very stiff feels every bump on the street wonderful on track. Splitter will rub all thought I raise up the front of the car when I drive it on the street use.
You have to climb over the roll bar to get in and the seats don't recline. I pulled the ac for brake cooling ducts again a comfort most won’t give up.

Weight. A 2500Lb car is stripped. No ac, No stereo no carpet etc… but they have a cage. I know of three in Northern California they are all coups.
My car is a Targa. I still have dash carpet stereo ~3000 lbs coup will be a ~150lbs less.

Hope this helps.

 

[neoprufrok]

I think you have a great idea, but are using on the wrong platform. Not to sound like a debbie-downer here, but your reference point is apples to oranges. The NSX will never and has never had the following that Porsche, BMW, or other makes have had, or still have. Older 911's, E30 M3's, etc. all sell for larger sums of money than a 91 NSX. That is unless that 91 NSX has been in some collectors garage and has a few thousand miles on it. Buyers for this type of car are far and few in between.

When I first joined Prime there were quite a few guys who invested serious sums of money into their cars. That list has dropped dramatically to say the least. If I am not mistaken, Anil's car is the highest dollar NSX sold thus far that I am aware of state side. His sold for a little over $100k to a collector who drooled over getting an NSX-R, or the next best thing. There are still cars that have huge investments into them; however, the chance of selling one of these cars for anything near what was put into them is next to impossible. This includes those who have purchased the newer 02+ models that still command higher dollar values.

1. A 3.5 will run you approximately $30k'ish with cams, valve springs, retainers, etc. Upwards of $50k if you find someone who still wants to be able to return the car to stock and you purchase a new short block and heads.

2. I assume when you say twin-turbo you are speaking of SoS's Kit, which will run you $14k. This is unless you plan to design your own, which will involve R&D Costs.

3. The closest thing you will find to Brembo GT-R's for the NSX is the old Indy Brake Kit. If you are able to find one now, they will run you serious money. Think upwards of $8k'ish. The regular brembo set up front and rear is right at $8k. Dave (Turbo2Go), is the only one that I know of running Carbon Ceramic brakes on an NSX and I know what he paid for his kit. He got this kit for substantially less than what the kit sells for, which is $11k.

4. Dry Carbon costs money. Unless you have an Autoclave, you are going to be paying some serious money for time spent during the process. What would your estimated cost per kit be? What would be your price point?

5. The price point for the custom Ohlins Suspension will probably be somewhere around the cost of a Moton Club Sport or Motorsport that range from $6k to $10k.

6. The floor mounted pedal box would involve more R&D.

7. The interior is going to cost some serious money too. Perhaps not so much in material, per say, but rather in man hours. Ravi with Umbrella Design used to charge in the neighborhood of $17k to do a full interior to the degree you are talking about.

You obviously have money, so there is may, or may not impact you financially. I would think if you really researched this forum (i.e. build threads), and look at the average car on here, you would find that the market conditions do not support this type of venture. As much as I love my car, I still kick myself in the ass at times for not buying a Gallardo, a McLaren, or some other high-line exotic with the money I have put in a 2005 NSX.

I truly believe that you would be better served marketing the interest shown in your kit and going from there, rather than jumping head-long into a complete product.

Just my two cents, but I do like the idea. I just believe that the effort would be better served on a different make of an iconic nature.

Appreciate the feedback. I'm very early on in the idea... but a few things have matured in my mind since the first post. The most important being this car will be a Street version. The track version will just be my own car. Also, a lot of the R&D has been done - by Shad at Driving Ambitions. So a lot of the stuff is already tried and true.

1. Being that we are deciding on a street version now, the engine will likely be either a 3.5L with ITB - which keeps more in line with the spirit of the NSX. A CTSC will be offered as well.

2. For the Track car - which will likely be its own special order car - Shad's done a lot of the R&D, so it won't be a problem. Might be a single turbo as well.

3. My car luckily has the Brembo/Indy setup. So its good from that angle. For the Street car - will likely go with Brembo GT kits.

4. Still talking to various companies about producing the dry carbon. The cost is initially high, but the prevalence of 3D scanning and proliferation of CF companies have brought costs down quite a bit. Given that the density of even resin based CF is 60% of that of aluminum, if all of the body is replaced by CF, the weight saving could be pretty substantial.

5. Street car will still run an Ohlins setup. I'm pretty set on this.

6. Floor mounted pedal box idea likely will be thrown out - not enough benefit.

7. Interior is going to be a little less.

As for the research, I have been doing quite a bit. In fact, no matter how much I read, it still seems like there is more and more to read. The way I see things - if it was easy, everyone would have done it. I'm crazy enough to give it a shot. If it doesn't work - it doesn't work. But I have great partners (Shad, GT Auto Concepts) and both are extremely excited. Even getting to the point of selling cars will take at least 2 years in my estimation. There's a lot of things to work out. By then, I feel like there will be a market.

Finally, more than anything - this is a design exercise. It's subtle, but the best design is such. I'm not a true designer in an artist's sense - I don't draw very well. I've talked to Rob Dickinson himself and he admits he can't draw either. But I have people who have translated my thoughts well which is how the wide body came about. My strength lies in putting individual mods and making it look whole. I want people to say - this is how it should have come from the factory. The bodywork and interior - while subtle and not HIN attention grabbing - will be appreciated by anyone who loves NSXs the way we do.

I really do appreciate all the feedback. It's already fine tuned what I would offer from the company if it comes to fruition. Clearly it will be a street NSX that looks like the original NSX but with some subtle design flourishes that serve a purpose (very slightly wider fenders). It's just going to take awhile I guess! :biggrin:

- - - Updated - - -

Here are my thoughts.

You need to build a street car. Most NSX drivers won't track their car. They want all the looks and goodies but will never take it to the track.
They need to be able to drive it around and show it off. It needs to be street legal.

They like creature comforts.
A track only car won't sell. How many NSX's do you see at the track? I out there but usually the only one.

A track prepared NSX is too harsh for most of the NSX drivers. Suspension is to stiff, Wide tires rub and can't turn full lock.
Nose may scrape a driveway. My car is a street legal track car and most NSX owners think I am nuts.
Suspension is very stiff feels every bump on the street wonderful on track. Splitter will rub all thought I raise up the front of the car when I drive it on the street use.
You have to climb over the roll bar to get in and the seats don't recline. I pulled the ac for brake cooling ducts again a comfort most won’t give up.

Weight. A 2500Lb car is stripped. No ac, No stereo no carpet etc… but they have a cage. I know of three in Northern California they are all coups.
My car is a Targa. I still have dash carpet stereo ~3000 lbs coup will be a ~150lbs less.

Hope this helps.

Appreciate the input! You're correct. I've come to the conclusion that the Street one will be the best to build. If someone (and there are a few already) want me to build my vision of a Track NSX, I can do that - it'll just cost them a lot.

Weight targets were based on calculations Shad and I had made. Probably for the street car will shoot for 2600. I think that's possible with an all CF body and a few other things.

Again, really appreciate the input.

 

[nsxnut]

As for the research, I have been doing quite a bit. In fact, no matter how much I read, it still seems like there is more and more to read. The way I see things - if it was easy, everyone would have done it. I'm crazy enough to give it a shot. If it doesn't work - it doesn't work. But I have great partners (Shad, GT Auto Concepts) and both are extremely excited. Even getting to the point of selling cars will take at least 2 years in my estimation. There's a lot of things to work out. By then, I feel like there will be a market.

In a few years Honda will be your biggest competitor when they start selling the next version of the nsx. For roughly the same money what would you buy?


Later,
Don

 

[Nero Tenebre]

Subscribing- crazy pipe dream but so exciting and sounds like you have the resources and contacts to pull it off. I would offer multiple bbk options as some may want the bigger stop techs. Also if you are building ultimate NSXs only go for billet calipers. JMHO

 

[docjohn]

I have for some years considered doing what you and Shad are considering......you get the right people together and quarterback your dream team....but life gets in the way of supercar track dreams.:redface:

 

[NSXAMG996TT]

I believe you have the right formula to pull this off. The demand will likely come later once people see the end result of your hard work. PS. I often stop by Shad's shop hoping to get a glimpse of Kip's #49 car one day coming back to life.

 

[ALwAyS4SaLe]

I have the perfect canvas for this project... So not the funds to follow through on such a complete build...cf wide body panels and front fenders may something to look into for the community as every other company really only offers fiberglass . I wished they would have done wide metal fenders like I think go tuning offered with the challenge s2000 metal fenders for better wheel and tire figment

 

[white98sh]

http://forums.vwvortex.com/showthread.php?t=7082497

Check out this topic on another forum. NSX and 240Z had the most responses, so you may be on to something...

 

[neoprufrok]

Thanks guys for the words of encouragement and also the feedback. Shad and I had a long talk about it the other day. I have to finish the build for the Resuka Design "Track" NSX since its my car. Once I source another low mileage NSX, Shad and I will get to work on building the Resuka "Street" NSX.

Here's the basic mechanicals for the Resuka Street NSX

Engines:
3.5L Stroker w ITBs (Custom Intake Box) Standard. (Looking into making it CARB Legal... I know crazy... but hey need something CARB legal for Cali residents. Shad should know - he was responsible for going to get the Comptech products CARB legal)
3.5L S/C Engine Optional
AEM Series 2 Standalone Engine Management

Transmission:
NA2 6-Speed Conversion
OS Giken Diff
Comptech clutch/flywheel

Brakes:
Brembo GT 6 Piston Front 4 Rear
Brembo Type 3 Rotors

Suspension:
Custom Ohlins (We've already started talking to them)

Headers/Exhaust:
Comptech/CTE Headers/Exhaust Standard (For CARB legal reasons)
RFY Titanium Optional

Wheels/Tires:
Custom RYFT Design 18x8" F and 19x11" R (Will be classic looking with some modern touches)
Michelin Pilot Cup 2 235/40-18 and 285/35-19.

Body:
All drycarbon CF custom panels - wide enough to fit the above wheels/tires.

Of course there will be other custom design touches throughout the car.

The one thing that separates this is we will take the car and completely disassemble it. Everything. So engine and tranny will be completely disassembled. If anything is not 100% perfect, we will replace it with either OEM or better part. We will also be rust proofing and repainting the chassis/frame in the body color with clear coat. To me - it has to look like it came off the factory line. Finally, we will be track testing the setup for both the Street and Track cars. I want these cars to perform as well as they look. Still seems like a pipe dream - but what the hell.

 

[ROLZ]

I'm interested!!

 

[blue_myriddn]

This thread has made me question whether someone has pulled out a NSX interior and done a full leather, higher end replacement? I have seen custom interiors in NSXs, but most are Alcantara, carbon, etc giving it a modern look. Has anyone gone for a classy/elegant look?

 

[nsxnut]

You will get allot of folks that are interested. Hell I'll pay attention to this thread.

How many are willing to buy your product?

What is the estimated price? Including donor car. ~125-150K?
When will this be available? ~ 1.5-2 Years from now?

How many folks will buy this. Also consider the Next generation NSX will likely be available at that time.

I love My NSX. I have allot invested and recently got it painted. I'm here to stay but I did this over time.
Like most of us.

Could I convince my wife to buy a 20 year old used car for a big coin? Not likely. OK not at all.
Also consider a new car has a warranty... Will you be offering such?

The used market is 50-60k for a modified nsx. You are trying to define a new market segment.


If you can get the price down then you have a chance. say 70-80K
You need to sell these now and not when the new NSX comes out.

 

[neoprufrok]

nsxnut - appreciate the feedback. I am going to out on a limb and say that the market exists for higher priced nostalgic cars. It's not meant to compete with the new NSX by any means. What strikes me going from my McLaren to my NSX is that the NSX seems more pure - has no layer of computing between me and the car. Current cars do not have that.

You're right - this is a risk. But for me, I'm going to build two prototype cars anyways. If the interest is there afterwards at a price that makes the partners and myself happy - we'll build them. If it's unattainable - well, at least I have built a few NSXs the way I want them.

Singer did the same. He just built one for himself.. .and lo and behold a market appeared. I'm taking the same track. My partners know this and are incredibly excited about it - but we know that if things don't turn out the way they did, at least we devleoped a few things for these cars that no one has done.

- - - Updated - - -

This thread has made me question whether someone has pulled out a NSX interior and done a full leather, higher end replacement? I have seen custom interiors in NSXs, but most are Alcantara, carbon, etc giving it a modern look. Has anyone gone for a classy/elegant look?

Someone has done an alcantara replacement. I will be using a combination soft-grain full leather combined with alcantara with contrast stitching dash. Carpet will be higher end berber style carpet. The whole interior will be a combination of leather, strategic alcantara and carbon fiber.

- - - Updated - - -

nsxnut - btw, you are bay area? I am too. Would be nice to meet sometime and see your car.

 

[nsxnut]

nsxnut - btw, you are bay area? I am too. Would be nice to meet sometime and see your car.

Yes I live in San Jose. Near Santana Row.

Yea if you want to look me up this weekend I'll be around.

Later,
Don

 

[docjohn]

neo what is your day job?...pm me if you wish.

 

[ALwAyS4SaLe]

I'm curious on your take for utilizing low mileage NSXs for your builds. Wouldn't be more cost effective or even more profitable to use high mileage NSXs since you will be tearing the whole car down and replacing everything?

 

[bngl3rt]

Listen, if you manage to CARB an ITB stroker... you will go down in history a hero.

 

[neoprufrok]

I'm curious on your take for utilizing low mileage NSXs for your builds. Wouldn't be more cost effective or even more profitable to use high mileage NSXs since you will be tearing the whole car down and replacing everything?

I might have wrote something wrong... but plan is to take high mileage cars... you are right. Preferably >150k miles. Singer does the same thing.

- - - Updated - - -

Listen, if you manage to CARB an ITB stroker... you will go down in history a hero.

I'm up for challenges.