I agree man, i will def. track it when i get it -- that's half the fun
What does it take to get a CARB sticker for a product anyways? Why can't/won't Lovefab or the other turbo companies do what CT did?
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Science of Speed SOS twin turbo vs Lovefab turbo
- Thread starter ac3320
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I agree man, i will def. track it when i get it -- that's half the fun
What does it take to get a CARB sticker for a product anyways? Why can't/won't Lovefab or the other turbo companies do what CT did?
I'll grant you my experience is limited. perhaps i am misinformed... but my impression is that as long as there are no CEL's and you can pass the sniffer (here in az) there is no issue.
In california, of course, you have a visual. So that would involve removing any VISUAL cues.. is the turbo visible or not? i don't know. of course, it's not INvisible.. but is it located such that you can see it on casual referee inspection.
Heck, with my SC (bbsc btw), you can simply run a stock belt, bypassing the whole SC system. then on visual the SC isn't hooked up at all. "Why, sir, i would NEVER run that SC except when i'm on the track. Thanks for asking!"
So as long as you have cats (which i do), you could pass. Oh, thats right.. the "intake" is modified too. Guess i'd have to unbolt the entire thing then. *sigh*. that's about 3 hrs labor (for my system.. i don't know the others' time line).
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- 11 November 2003
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IMHO, it's all just a choice of which drug, how much that drug costs, and how often you need a 'fix'. Power mods are fun, but they start at expensive, and progress from there to insane as you get used to it and need a bigger fix. In addition, I've always found it frustrating to have lots of power because you can never really use it on the street. Eventually it catches up to you, and being a father with a family I vow never to put myself or anyone else at excessive risk due to my speed-love hobby.
So I guess I'm in the boat with Turbo2Go. My drug of choice is the DE event, in a 'slow' car. Heck I even miss my old 85 RX-7, slow as hell but felt great winding the crap outta it and sliding around a track. Plus I never worried about banging it up. Believe it or not, much more 'hoot' factor for me than any powerful car on the road. Of course YMMV, just a supporting point.
Basically just stay away from CA and you are ok :biggrin:
Except that everything i know is in CA! All my job prospects are here.... but it's not like people never move! Heck, i would like to explore OR, WA, maybe CO or the Dakotas. All nice places
Wait, you don't own an NSX???
Naivety:
-I was under the impression that everything 'done' to the motor like the injectors, fuel pump, intercooler assembly, could be left on, while i take all of the bolt-on stuff after and including the exhaust manifold and replace with the factory stuff. Maybe i misunderstood what the manu's have told me. Quite possible
-AEM F/IC can just be removed right, since it only handles the boost zones (and is a plug/play setup that piggybacks to the factory ECU)
500 whp:
-This is just a big number to throw out there. I don't think i'll need that, but it'd be nice to know that i can have it. Of course, having a super peaky beast that kicks in at 6K to 'get' that 500 whp is not really very interesting to me either, so of course i would sacrifice a little top end HP to have a nice even TQ feel throughout the RPM range.
-The fact is that the CT setup would likely get me around 350whp, which is nearly 100whp over stock. Not a small feat at all! About the same as i would guess the SOS 3.8L stroker NA build would provide. Both nice options. I know a lot of guys get obsessed with just 'having' those crazy HP numbers, but let's be honest, even though the NSX has so much going for it aesthetically, handling-wise, fit/finish, rarity, etc. over the big american/euro cars (Z06, 911 turbo/GT3, etc.), there is just no arguing with those cars that are producing well over 200 whp more than the NSX. There's just no comparison. So there has to be a little validity in wanting more power to suit everything else that is great about the NSX over the 'other' options out there. Please don't confuse this desire with blind "i want 500 whp" (which, in your defense, is probably how I came off initially, and how a lot of peeps do).
-I was also under the impression that 400-450 whip is easily attainable with these turbo setups on unbuilt motor setups, and that above that, yes, indeed, a motor build would be a great reliability booster. I would definitely go for such a build if i went over 450 whp. Again, i was just throwing 500 out there as a sort of upper limit of what i would be comfortable Daily driving the NSX. And also, again, i was under the impression that such a 'built' motor would still pass emissions tests with the same 'passibility' that the non-built motor would, since the engine is just more robust, rather than more powerful. Please correct me if i'm wrong.
Research:
-Actually, i think my problem is that i've done too much research. It's the death of anything really. one ends up in situations similar to this one. Then one decides on a option, enjoys it for a while, honeymoon wears off, and then it's back to researching for something else. IME anyways. But you might be right, i should do some more reading, but that was half the point of this thread...to get answers because my current research has left a few questions...just trying to get those answered
The big answer:
-I live in Southern California, the heartland of all this type of tuner stuff. Alas, I am not an NSX owner, but hope to be someday (duh). I shudder to think what this omission will do for the possibility of getting anymore of my questions answered here (or via email with the manu's mentioned), since i might fall into the category of "this guy is here asking questions but not really able to do anything with the information. peace!" category. eh, i hope not. But i just want to be honest about my situation. NSXprime seems to be a place where non-owners can come and get their questions answered...hopefully this thread will not be an exception to my perception
I think doing a berlina 02+ type-r copy would be a really cool thing. Don't see those (or any NSX) around too much, and i'd like a powerplant that can keep up with those z06's and the likes
Wait, you don't own an NSX???
Yeah not yet. Planning on getting an s2000 when i get done with loans, then an NSX type-r type thing, and throw in a C2 corvette build, and a 70 chevy pickup build. A lifetime of gearheading ahead of me...
LOL I second that:tongue:
Just want to say -- thanks to everyone for your replies.
Right now i'm still torn between these two turbo setups, leaning a little toward Lovefab simply because it's tried and true. The SOS setup is just brand new...no one has tried it yet, so no one really know of any glitches. Can't really knock a company for having a new product though...
Also i've gone back and forth with the whole Comptech setup.... If i did my math right, 330 whp @ low boost setting. I know there's a higher boost setting...but can't seem to find any official info on it. Here on NSXprime it's most FS threads that are long passed... (and those threads seem to apply to the older Whipple blowers). But shoot, the whole CARB thing is really sweet. No hassle, no nothing!
When it comes down to it, i guess i have to be okay with 1) being dishonest with the SMOG peeps and/or 2) paying them off. Both are kinda iffy ethically, but i suppose they are for the greater good (sort of), and because CA just plain sucks when it comes to emissions :/
There seem to be a few ways around this "CARB vs power increasing modifications" thing if i don't mind fudging...
1. get a high boost setup for the CT kit. CARB EO# only applies to ~6psi, but how are the techs gonna know that?
2. get the SOS kit and remove the label. looks just like the CT kit. Bring in my CT papers (since some here have found it's easier than having the guy look for the CARB EO# on the CT headers)
3. Get a lovefab turbo setup and get some OEM (yeah right) or High flow cats that are CARB approved. Sniff test okay, visual...depends ($, IQ?)
4. do a similar thing with the SOS kit, cept they keep the existing cats and exhaust (if you want to). Again, hopefully able to pass the sniff test with cats (i don't want gas smell anyways), and the visual is up in the air again.
hmm...
Right now i'm still torn between these two turbo setups, leaning a little toward Lovefab simply because it's tried and true. The SOS setup is just brand new...no one has tried it yet, so no one really know of any glitches. Can't really knock a company for having a new product though...
Also i've gone back and forth with the whole Comptech setup.... If i did my math right, 330 whp @ low boost setting. I know there's a higher boost setting...but can't seem to find any official info on it. Here on NSXprime it's most FS threads that are long passed... (and those threads seem to apply to the older Whipple blowers). But shoot, the whole CARB thing is really sweet. No hassle, no nothing!
When it comes down to it, i guess i have to be okay with 1) being dishonest with the SMOG peeps and/or 2) paying them off. Both are kinda iffy ethically, but i suppose they are for the greater good (sort of), and because CA just plain sucks when it comes to emissions :/
There seem to be a few ways around this "CARB vs power increasing modifications" thing if i don't mind fudging...
1. get a high boost setup for the CT kit. CARB EO# only applies to ~6psi, but how are the techs gonna know that?
2. get the SOS kit and remove the label. looks just like the CT kit. Bring in my CT papers (since some here have found it's easier than having the guy look for the CARB EO# on the CT headers)
3. Get a lovefab turbo setup and get some OEM (yeah right) or High flow cats that are CARB approved. Sniff test okay, visual...depends ($, IQ?)
4. do a similar thing with the SOS kit, cept they keep the existing cats and exhaust (if you want to). Again, hopefully able to pass the sniff test with cats (i don't want gas smell anyways), and the visual is up in the air again.
hmm...
I don't think there was ever an 'official' high boost kit. I think it involved bigger injectors, the smaller pulley and F/IC. But then I don't think you would pass emissions. In fact I don't think you would pass emissions with any of the setups you mentioned.
The manufacturers are hopeful, but i suppose they have to be if they want to sell me a kit
No, in all honesty though, the easiest, safest thing is the CTSC route. High boost when not getting smogged, take it down when smogged. The SOS SC i think would pass too, since it's based on the CT thing.The turbos are less likely, but the SOS TT uses the factory cats, so i don't see a problem there. Lovefab can maybe make their system compatible with the cats, at least Cody is hopeful in that regard. He seems to think i'd have no problems passing as is, but who knows
I thought once you moved away from OEM engine management you couldn't pass emissions. Maybe that's only with OBDII.
Well the engine managament would be via AEM F/IC, which is a piggyback system -- not standalone (like AEM EMS) -- on top of the factory ECU. This way you can retain cold startup/normal idling. You sacrifice ultimate tweakability, but i'm no race-car driver, just street/occasional track use.
the most i have heard of paying for a "smog" is 200 + normal fees. i think anything more than that isn't really worth it. ( have lived in norcal and socal)
bottom line, if you get a CHP that knows what to look for you're going to be faced with HUGE fines and have to go to the referee (CARB) where he will tell you that your car is completely unfit to drive on CA streets. you pay him, the courts and help to keep fuel in Arnold's H1. truth of the matter is, if you live in CA (or have your car licensed in CA *hint hint*) stick to CARB legal stuff. I have seen too many close friends pay out the nose and having a father that is retired CHP doesn't hurt with my knowledge of their tactics either :thumb up:
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The easiest work around is getting the car registered in Arizona or Nevada. My friend did it for his R32 & his S15 (both imported from Japan; R32:700+rwhp, S15:400+rwhp).
Yeah not yet. Planning on getting an s2000 when i get done with loans, then an NSX type-r type thing, and throw in a C2 corvette build, and a 70 chevy pickup build. A lifetime of gearheading ahead of me...
I beg to differ. I believe there will be a lifetime of reality ahead of you.
Good luck on your pursuit of multiple phantom builds. I would aim for owning a vehicle prior to buying all the upgrades. Just saying.
Why?
did he pick a family member/friend and just register it there?
Hey i can't blame you for having that sentiment at all. But idk if you've spent anytime in Southern California (LA area mostly), but because there are so many freaking people, there is so much freaking NOx (SMOG) all the time! Occasionally we'll have light seasons where you can see the mountains, but it's not everyday! SO i can understand what CARB is trying to do, it just kinda sucks the fun out of everything. I feel like they should impose the same ridiculously stringent emissions control on the #1 polluter out there: big rig trucks hauling who knows what to satisfy consumer american (myself included). Spend some time on the 91 towards disneyland or I-10 from LA eastbound to palm springs. Tons of trucks. Gotta be delivering more pollutants than you average FI NSX (with cats of course). But yeah, the gun thing is just ridiculous no matter how you look at it.
I know California is beautiful and I would love to take vacations there, but I could never live there.
If I buy a car and I want to modify it, I will. I don't want big brother telling me I can't. I'd gladly move to another state than deal with an over controlling local government. I thought my HOA was bad! :biggrin: I'm suprised you guys don't revolt!
I've flown into LA several times on connection flights to Hawaii. The smog can be very thick.
If I buy a car and I want to modify it, I will. I don't want big brother telling me I can't. I'd gladly move to another state than deal with an over controlling local government. I thought my HOA was bad! :biggrin: I'm suprised you guys don't revolt!
I've flown into LA several times on connection flights to Hawaii. The smog can be very thick.
The poor air from LA does not only come from LA. Drifts across the ocean and holds up there. If everyone beginning tomorrow began driving a prius there would still be a cloud over la.
Ever been to Athens? Now THAT is what pollution looks like.
Ever been to Athens? Now THAT is what pollution looks like.
The poor air from LA does not only come from LA. Drifts across the ocean and holds up there. If everyone beginning tomorrow began driving a prius there would still be a cloud over la.
Ever been to Athens? Now THAT is what pollution looks like.
I'm sure there're other contributions than just the L.A. population itself, but, there are just more people (cars) than the geography can sustain w/o SMOG. It's a huge valley and all the junk gets trapped down below.
You may even have a hard time passing some of them:biggrin:
I'm currently modding my '10 for more electrical power (to take advantage of the free power at work mostly), and considering a supercharger to complement the Miller cycle engine ala:
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Technokill-Building-a-Blown-Hybrid-Part-1/A_111655/article.html
Dave
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