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Science of Speed SOS twin turbo vs Lovefab turbo

You may even have a hard time passing some of them:biggrin:

I'm currently modding my '10 for more electrical power (to take advantage of the free power at work mostly), and considering a supercharger to complement the Miller cycle engine ala:
http://autospeed.com/cms/title_Technokill-Building-a-Blown-Hybrid-Part-1/A_111655/article.html

Dave



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That just seems so...wrong. lol
 
I could never live in California. Too many rules and restrictions. From cars to guns and everything in between. The less the government tells me how to live my life the better. I love blowing by a Prius with my catless car on meth injection.

If you are going to make a statement like that why don't you be a brave man and tell us where you reside so BATMANs can clown your 'hood.

The nice weather is worth the emissions "trouble" by a long shot.
 
I love this thread. Endless debates about which turbocharging vendor to choose (or should it be a Comptech SC?) for a guy who is years away from thinking he might even purchase a NSX. This makes me giggle.
 
The easiest work around is getting the car registered in Arizona or Nevada. My friend did it for his R32 & his S15 (both imported from Japan; R32:700+rwhp, S15:400+rwhp).

This is a BAD idea. If you get pulled over and show a CA drivers license and are driving a car with out of state plates you are asking to have your car impounded. The same thing can happen if you get into an accident, even if it isn't your fault.

Your friend has just been lucky so far....
 
Your friend has just been lucky so far....

I agree. I had a RHD Supra in AZ, but registered in Utah. Lucky for me the ADOT officer gave me a couple weeks to sell the car to an out of state buyer. I have a feeling CA makes it even harder to get away with.
 
This is a BAD idea. If you get pulled over and show a CA drivers license and are driving a car with out of state plates you are asking to have your car impounded. The same thing can happen if you get into an accident, even if it isn't your fault.

Your friend has just been lucky so far....

VERY bad idea indeed.
 
I love this thread. Endless debates about which turbocharging vendor to choose (or should it be a Comptech SC?) for a guy who is years away from thinking he might even purchase a NSX. This makes me giggle.

I know eh? these noobs come on here and can't wait to devalue the car... dreamers man... I giggle too
 
You should be able to remove all aspects of a turbo or SC setup, leaving in the injectors/fuel pump and the car should run/idle fine. My AEM FIC doesn't care if my SC (at well over 500 hp on a pretty much stock motor) is running or not. WHEN it sees boost, it acts accordingly. IF it DOESN't see boost, it acts accordingly. So shouldn't be too hard to swap back and forth for emissions.

Plus i have race cats which get me through emissions every year here in AZ (admittedly not as stringent as CA) with ZERO additional work. I leave ALL aspects of my system in place and running, and pass emission.

I assume you leave your upsized injectors on and the FIC is able to start/idle/drive around with them all the time, even if you were to remove the SC? I know you have since removed the SC and gone turbo but just as a for instance :)
 
I'm also considering the SOS vs. Lovefab, not really interested in the CT supercharger. I don't intend to track it, just want the extra HP. And just cause I want it, no other reason.
 
For me that would be more about single turbo vs. twin turbo than anything else. Twin turbo supposedly lags less, and although it might be easier to hit big power with a single (large) turbo, I always keep in mind that the autowave 1000hp NSX had twins...
 
Hey i can't blame you for having that sentiment at all. But idk if you've spent anytime in Southern California (LA area mostly), but because there are so many freaking people, there is so much freaking NOx (SMOG) all the time! Occasionally we'll have light seasons where you can see the mountains, but it's not everyday! SO i can understand what CARB is trying to do, it just kinda sucks the fun out of everything. I feel like they should impose the same ridiculously stringent emissions control on the #1 polluter out there: big rig trucks hauling who knows what to satisfy consumer american (myself included). Spend some time on the 91 towards disneyland or I-10 from LA eastbound to palm springs. Tons of trucks. Gotta be delivering more pollutants than you average FI NSX (with cats of course). But yeah, the gun thing is just ridiculous no matter how you look at it.

Where pollution could come from? Not only from things that have been mentioned in the posts above. Did you know that "hydrocarbon emissions from one-half hour of leaf blower operation equal about 7,700 miles of driving, at 30 miles per hour average speed"? They talk about gas powered 2 stroke engine blowers. That's whole year of driving for many cars!
Check out this article, and it's not only one of it's kind
https://localwiki.org/davis/Banning_leaf-blowers
 
This is a BAD idea. If you get pulled over and show a CA drivers license and are driving a car with out of state plates you are asking to have your car impounded. The same thing can happen if you get into an accident, even if it isn't your fault.

Your friend has just been lucky so far....

Isn't there a county or city in NORCAL that is smog exempt?
 
I'm going to sound like a broken record because I have said this so many times but I am going to say it again. Lets back up a bunch of steps:

In general, the purpose of buying a sports car is that a sports car is more fun to drive than is a standard poor-handling, slow-accelerating, numb-steering-feel car. I think sometimes you have to ask basic questions... why am I buying this car?

So most guys then get in this dilemma, like you find yourself in... how much performance can I buy? I am sure if we all could have Veyron acceleration and FXX handling, no one would say no. You want the most performance, because... you think that will be the most fun. But this is a myth. There are many cars that are very fast, but not that fun. If your car accelerates hard but the steering feel is numb, that's not fun. If the car has great performance but looks kinda ugly, that takes away from the excitement factor. If it has a great engine but the exhaust note is that of a UPS truck, that's no fun. If the car has great performance but you are forced to drive 35MPH in traffic, that too, is no fun.

Part of the appeal is the sound, the look, the design, the pizazz. Right? It isn't just about speed. This is part of the NSX's draw, its sex appeal. Now, you are sitting there like I did years ago pondering the purchase of a car, looking at the NSX's slinky body, and wondering if 300 HP will be enough for you. Right? I had a Comptech Supercharger on order BEFORE I took delivery of my car.

I put the CTSC on, and HOLY COW... now I could take off at the stop light like a bat out of hell and probably outrun most cars. Of course... it never really ends, then you need the next mod, the next set of wheels, etc.

Last week I had my 17th day at a racetrack. I went to Watkins Glen with the Ferrari club, and can tell you for sure that my supercharged NSX was probably one of the slowest cars there. In the hands of my instructor, my slow NSX could probably LAP the fastest Ferrari there. You soon realize that a bone stock NSX is FAR superior to what most drivers can handle. One has no idea how bad of a driver he really is until he is out on a racetrack with pros. Does it really matter if you have 550 HP but a better driver can school you in a 200 HP car? I am asking...

Suppose you have 600 HP in your car. What do you do with it? Race a Vette at a stoplight down Santa Monica Boulevard? OK... it's fun for about 20 seconds... unless you get busted. What else can you do? Put your girlfriend in there and as you enter the highway hammer the throttle and have it suck you into the seat... right? pretty cool... she says "wow"... OK... 10 seconds of fun are now over. Maybe you want to find a stretch of road and see how fast you can hit 150?

I am just trying to bring up any and all scenarios as to why people want 500 HP. If there are others, please chime in.

Now I can tell you first hand, and I am just a newb, that taking a car that is truly capable like an NSX on a real road course is about 15 levels up from doing any of the shit we mentioned above. It's then that you start to understand what real fun is. It's there that you go through an experience few people go through, because they are still busy modding a car they already can't handle well. It's there that you understand that "fast" has very little to do with horsepower.

I am really going off on a tangent, but I am trying to make you think a little. The NSX... in stock form... is faster on a racetrack than many many many cars. Do you want to know what that kind of fun is like? It is a rush that cannot be equaled even if you put 800 HP in your NSX. Imagine the height of your thrill when you take an off-ramp fast or accelerate hard out of a corner, multiply it times 5, and make it last 20-30 intense minutes at a time. That is what will happen when you have an NSX on a track. Even here on prime, few guys will ever appreciate that. And so the forums go on... about if a turbo is better or a supercharger is better.

To answer your questions:

1) No, you cannot just unbolt stuff and expect the car to run. Your entire fuel management must change with it. What you propose is extremely impractical.

2) I think most would agree that you are putting SERIOUS strain on the motor going much above 400 HP on stock internals. And that is not an on/off or strain/no strain switch set at 400. The stock internals by Honda were designed to go 300K miles easy with 250 or so WHP. Push that to 350 with a CTSC, and you are going lower its life. Go to 400, lower it even more. Or you can try 450 for a few weeks. I'm not against power... I would LOVE to have a 550 HP turbo... but try to go cheap and you will pay with a new engine.

3) building a motor with stronger internals will not affect emissions, so long as you do not alter the bore/stroke or engine management.

** This part is my opinion only ** : To me, the Comptech supercharger is the simplest and most reliable FI system there is. There are tons out there with many many miles and many are driven on the racetrack. Can a turbo be as reliable or even more so? Of course! But not on the cheap. The Comptech system also has the most NA like feel, and the most NA like power band. A stroker motor can be the same, but it is expensive, it is NOT SIMPLE (contrary to what many think), and it is just a bit shorter on power. A turbo also will generally not have the same flat power band as a roots type supercharger from 0-8K, but there is something to be said for all the extra power and torque it produces. Linearity only goes so far... It's like a girl with a terrific personality... you know what I mean?

Even if you try aftercooling the supercharger, you will immediately get into much more complexity. An intercooler, a heat exchanger, a water pump and all it's related lines. The extra power now requires fuel management, injectors, fuel pump, tuning. The cooler has to sit between the blower and the engine... imagine the heat it must dissipate... and as the engine works harder, that cooler becomes less and less effective. These are just compromises. Every design has compromises.

So what I am advocating to you, is just take your NSX to the track one time. Take it there bone stock. If you leave and feel the car is slow and you need 500 HP, then I will eat every word I have ever written. Start there. Start at the place where this car belongs. Then you will know how to mod, when to mod, and when and at what point you really do need 500 HP. The next time you are at a meet and a guy says "This car isn't fast, it only has 300 HP" ask him if he knows how to double clutch, heel and toe, rev match and drop down two gears heading into a right hand turn after hitting 135 on the back straight.

I just realized this reply is the longest I have ever written in the 5000+ posts I have on prime. And you don't even own an NSX. :wink:

Jesus, why do you care so much if someone wants more HP? I say go for the turbo.
 
Jesus, why do you care so much if someone wants more HP? I say go for the turbo.

I concur with the above.

From all that above, the only part I would tell you in decision making would be:
"1) No, you cannot just unbolt stuff and expect the car to run. Your entire fuel management must change with it. What you propose is extremely impractical.

2) I think most would agree that you are putting SERIOUS strain on the motor going much above 400 HP on stock internals. And that is not an on/off or strain/no strain switch set at 400. The stock internals by Honda were designed to go 300K miles easy with 250 or so WHP. Push that to 350 with a CTSC, and you are going lower its life. Go to 400, lower it even more. Or you can try 450 for a few weeks. I'm not against power... I would LOVE to have a 550 HP turbo... but try to go cheap and you will pay with a new engine.

3) building a motor with stronger internals will not affect emissions, so long as you do not alter the bore/stroke or engine management
."

There is no way to compare a stock NSX to a 500hp NSX./BIG DAMN DIFFERENCE. The car will perform at both levels.
And from the time this thread started, you still do not see many SOS TT kits.
The few that do speak seems very satisfied but it's just odd to me that when it comes to
SOS TT, it's all word of mouth.
Google Lovefab vs SOS TT & see which produces more footage.

***note I to battled with this prior to going LoveFab 533whp***
If you were to update, I would build motor 1st, then decide which way to go.
With built motor, I would even consider a SC. In todays world/on the track,
if your not 8-1000hp or more, your living in the past. Get a Gallardo or GTR for those numbers.
I've found my sweet spot and care not to chase numbers anymore......
 
Jesus, why do you care so much if someone wants more HP? I say go for the turbo.

It's a forum. I gave my opinions in trying to be helpful to someone. I didn't insult anyone or tell anyone what to do. If you are taking offense to what I said the problem is with you not with me.
 
Isn't there a county or city in NORCAL that is smog exempt?

There are a few, but it's a gray area if you don't live there.

Other option I was thinking was to add the SOS E85 module kit and upgrade my injectors to 1000cc and connect to the AEM Series 2 for smog.
 
It's a forum. I gave my opinions in trying to be helpful to someone. I didn't insult anyone or tell anyone what to do. If you are taking offense to what I said the problem is with you not with me.
Tks for posting your thoughts. That takes a lot of thought and effort to properly organize those comments .. made even more valuable by your own personal experience. I've been on Prime since '01 and found your comments to be right on the mark and very balanced. I've been thinking about the whole FI topic for over a year now so it was timely for me. Also agree with your track comments. I've raced go-karts, autocrossed my NSX and spent two fabulous days on track at the NSXPO 2010 event at SMMR and it's not only the most fun you can have with your clothes on .. you also get to improve your car handling skills to boot.
Well done.
 
Tks for posting your thoughts. That takes a lot of thought and effort to properly organize those comments .. made even more valuable by your own personal experience. I've been on Prime since '01 and found your comments to be right on the mark and very balanced. I've been thinking about the whole FI topic for over a year now so it was timely for me. Also agree with your track comments. I've raced go-karts, autocrossed my NSX and spent two fabulous days on track at the NSXPO 2010 event at SMMR and it's not only the most fun you can have with your clothes on .. you also get to improve your car handling skills to boot.
Well done.

Thanks Ian. Since I posted that I have gone back to NA. Really enjoying the car. Looking at some possible turbo systems, hoping I can retain that NA quality. If that doesn't work, I am going back to NA and forever staying there. LOL
 
Since I posted that I have gone back to NA. Really enjoying the car. Looking at some possible turbo systems, hoping I can retain that NA quality. If that doesn't work, I am going back to NA and forever staying there. LOL

The evangelist of CTSC says NA is better? What is "that NA quality"?
 
Jason the CTSC is still my favorite FI system because of its simplicity, reliability, and cost. But all superchargers weigh the engine down a little as far as rotational weight. I did two things: remove the blower, and change the clutch and flywheel assembly to a much lighter Comptech. My plan is also to do the hamonic balancer. The engine just revs fast now. A quick blip of the throttle is much quicker to go up and to come down without the heavy clutch and blower. Although I have less power, I really enjoy that quality. I wish I had gone even a little lighter on the clutch. But 6 speeds have fewer choices unless you change shafts.
 
Hi Turbo2go!

Nice seeing you posting here!

I don't post much, but i always read your posts! Hope you are enjoying your NA NSX in good health!

You probably know it... but if you want to shave extra 3,70 lbs of rotational weight from your engine you can install CT Cam gears!

I have the ATI harmonic balancer + CT cam gears, you can see it here

sorry for the off topic

Jason the CTSC is still my favorite FI system because of its simplicity, reliability, and cost. But all superchargers weigh the engine down a little as far as rotational weight. I did two things: remove the blower, and change the clutch and flywheel assembly to a much lighter Comptech. My plan is also to do the hamonic balancer. The engine just revs fast now. A quick blip of the throttle is much quicker to go up and to come down without the heavy clutch and blower. Although I have less power, I really enjoy that quality. I wish I had gone even a little lighter on the clutch. But 6 speeds have fewer choices unless you change shafts.
 
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If I had a choice in a turbo kit, which I don't because I am a tree hugging Prius driver from California:rolleyes: I would have the sos kit hands down, no question. All other kits seem to have charge pipes lazily hanging down from your motor at a very low position. I cringe at the thought of driving over a dead animal with something like that.
Btw, Dave where have you been hiding? We need to change your name now to charger2go. Did you get the power grip 1 or 2 clutch?
 
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