Semi-DIY Mild Engine Build for FI

[Mac Attack]

Depending what I do for valve stuff, the engine might be ready in a week or two. So, time to get off my rear end and get to busy on this car.

Not directly related to the engine build, but a necessary component when making more power is the cooling system. I have all new hoses, and a new radiator for this (I'm reusing my aluminum Dali expansion tank).

When I take the front bumper off later, I'll fabricate a nicer airbox to the radiator (ala what John@Microsoft did), but for now, I cleaned up the front end...

And will be putting this in:

It's the PWR #2419 model for the NSX. I got it from Dali and it looks like a nice setup. I did a little trimming around the hose barbs, and also at the far reaches of the shroud. I'm not concerned with stationary cooling so much as I am with at-speed cooling when I'm producing power. So, I tried to swiss-cheese the shroud but retain some strength where it sits against the radiator at the edges. I think I accomplished that.



Just trying to get the front finished up... Still need to install the rebuilt rack by D1guy and redo my ABS-delete brake lines.

 

[gsrboy]

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Jeez Batman. Your engine shouldn't ever leak now. I think it's got about a gallon of clear paint on it.

In all seriousness, this stuff doesn't have a temperature rating on the can. I guess your engine builder says it holds up well anyway? I like the idea of doing a clear on mine too. It'll help with keeping it clean in the future.

I know with some clear it can turn to a yellow tint in high heat sometimes...

 

[BATMANs]

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Jeez Batman. Your engine shouldn't ever leak now. I think it's got about a gallon of clear paint on it.

In all seriousness, this stuff doesn't have a temperature rating on the can. I guess your engine builder says it holds up well anyway? I like the idea of doing a clear on mine too. It'll help with keeping it clean in the future.

Im going to Zaino the clear. :tongue:

 

[Mac Attack]

OEM valve springs, retainers, and seats are now on order from Japan with no ETA. I should have thought about this earlier. Oh well, I can go ahead and rebuild the short block while the heads can sit and wait until the parts come in....

After all this, I'm not going to put the old original stuff back in there, especially after reading about how Rob Morrison lost two engines due to dropped valves from failed keepers and retainers.



Did you reuse your springs/retainers/seats/keepers BATMANs or go with aftermarket?

 

[BATMANs]

Resused for that same reason of stories of failed after market ones....

 

[Mac Attack]

Theres a lot of stress placed on the retainers and keepers though. Did you reuse those too?

 

[BATMANs]

Theres a lot of stress placed on the retainers and keepers though. Did you reuse those too?

Yes

 

[BATMANs]

 

[BATMANs]

 

[RYU]

Resused for that same reason of stories of failed after market ones....

I'm no expert but reusing these would worry me. So much effort on a top knotch engine build to simply reuse the valve train components? Hope it all stays together. :redface:

 

[BATMANs]

I'm no expert but reusing these would worry me. So much effort on a top knotch engine build to simply reuse the valve train components? Hope it all stays together. :redface:

I've reused the GTO ones which makes more TQ and HP. No issues.

 

[doc_tai]

If u r still run stock cam and stock rev limiter. I don't see why u need to upgrade valve train. U r gonna lose hp on stock cams with stiffer valve spring

 

[Mac Attack]

I agree with not needing stiffer valvesprings, but I'm replacing mine just because of the valvespring and retainer/keeper stresses they've already been exposed to after 20 years and 130k hard miles.

For example, a failed NSX OEM retainer:

http://ojas.net/nsx/mirror/dal#Heads

Is it necessary? No. But for another $500, you can get all new OEM seats/springs/keepers/retainers. That's about the same cost as aftermarket stuff... but without the potential titanium keeper worry.

But... I also didn't buy:

* Billet main bearing caps and do the associated machining and bearing sizing. Here's hoping they'll be OK with my measly 500WHP build and finely-balanced rotating assembly.

* ARP rod bolts - mine measured fine for stretch so I'm reusing them but with new OEM washers and nuts.

* Power Enterprise TB - Using a new OEM one. Never heard of a problem with OEM if it's replaced on time.

* ATI Dampener - Bought a new OEM one instead. Nothing against ATI, but Honda designed this to dampener to deal with the harmonic modes of this 90degree V6 crank. I'm sure ATI does their own modeling and calcs in-house with 20 year-newer computer codes... but the OEM should still be fine.



When doing this stuff you make your choices and then live with 'em!

 

[RYU]

If u r still run stock cam and stock rev limiter. I don't see why u need to upgrade valve train. U r gonna lose hp on stock cams with stiffer valve spring

Re: my concern... i'd only be worried about metal fatigue on the old OEM components. The C30 is decently high revving. If this was a 6000rpm redline like my old 350 small block then I would worry less. Not recommending going with stiffer springs if the valvetrain is to stay stock. Though, lighter springs and lighter valves at the OEM spec might be interesting.

 

[BATMANs]

I agree with not needing stiffer valvesprings, but I'm replacing mine just because of the valvespring and retainer/keeper stresses they've already been exposed to after 20 years and 130k hard miles.

For example, a failed NSX OEM retainer:

http://ojas.net/nsx/mirror/dal#Heads

Is it necessary? No. But for another $500, you can get all new OEM seats/springs/keepers/retainers. That's about the same cost as aftermarket stuff... but without the potential titanium keeper worry.

But... I also didn't buy:

* Billet main bearing caps and do the associated machining and bearing sizing. Here's hoping they'll be OK with my measly 500WHP build and finely-balanced rotating assembly.

* ARP rod bolts - mine measured fine for stretch so I'm reusing them but with new OEM washers and nuts.

* Power Enterprise TB - Using a new OEM one. Never heard of a problem with OEM if it's replaced on time.

* ATI Dampener - Bought a new OEM one instead. Nothing against ATI, but Honda designed this to dampener to deal with the harmonic modes of this 90degree V6 crank. I'm sure ATI does their own modeling and calcs in-house with 20 year-newer computer codes... but the OEM should still be fine.



When doing this stuff you make your choices and then live with 'em!

When I spoke to my engine builder he said that in the decades that he has rebuilt engines he can ONLY remember 1 time that the retainers went bad on their own.

He said that if you stick with the cro-moly steel retainers (not the titanium ones) they will last a VERY long time. There's also the matter of galavanic corrosion.

The other "rare" times that he has seen failed retainers was from when the piston and valves contacted (ie- dropping into first gear at freeway speeds, etc.).

So in the link that you provided did it depict a piston and valve contact event?

....."the pistons hit the valves, the valves bent, and since we have very little squish area the hard valves pound the heads, and pound the piston."

The ATI balancer is lighter and will free up more power - part of their benefits.

PE Timing belt is used in races and suppose to be stronger and less likely to stretch. I'm confident that this was a good choice given that the Supercharger solution puts more stress on the OEM timing belts that wasn't designed with a blower in mind.

 

[Mac Attack]

So in the link that you provided did it depict a piston and valve contact event?

....."the pistons hit the valves, the valves bent, and since we have very little squish area the hard valves pound the heads, and pound the piston."

After the second failure, it says he went back and checked for over-revving, since that is what he assumed for the first failure. Unfortunately, the failures were both due to cracking a retainer and dropping the valve into the cylinder.

He said if it were due to over-revving, then more of the valves would have been damaged.

 

[BATMANs]

He said if it were due to over-revving, then more of the valves would have been damaged.

not always true. years ago my friend mishifted to 1st gear in his e36 m3 at freeway speeds. just one intake valve hit the piston.

it was a $10k engine

 

[BATMANs]

Zaino'd the block!!!!

 

[moprblms]

Nice job looks like a sparkling jewel.

 

[BATMANs]

Notice the ceramic. Coatings on headers and pistons.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-zv6ZY4p4A&feature=youtube_gdata_player

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wVarKLId0wE&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I've. Gone more extreme........

 

[BATMANs]

Engine block is in the NSX.

I'm waiting for some additional small parts.

 

[BATMANs]

 

[RYU]

Not running a catch can? Reason?

 

[BATMANs]

Not running a catch can? Reason?

I'll see how the car behaves without one.

 

[BATMANs]

I just got the car back!!!!!

I'll be posting the break down of the price and parts soon.

Right now it doesn't really drive right since I need an alignment and tune (1 full point drop in compression ratio).

I'm going to simmer in my happiness...... for a little while.