Semi-DIY Mild Engine Build for FI

[L_RAO]

And of course, another question: does it look like the gasket between the intake manifold and cylinder head has any insulation properties? Some shops offer custom-made phenolic gaskets to prevent heat transfer into the intake manifold but it would be nice if the OEM gasket already serves that purpose, if only kinda.

Not sure, but I did call Hondata to inquire about having them made for the NSX. They weren't interested due to the low #s, so I asked if I could have the name of their manufacturer. Of course they wouldn't give that away. Another NSX parts related quandry.

 

[Mac Attack]

The gasket is thin metal sandwiched between a type of plastic. So yes, it does have some insulating effect.

 

[BATMANs]

Finally the guy ahead of me just had his block delivered.

I'm back on track.

Some time this week my heads will be ready for ceramic coatings.

 

[Mac Attack]

I'm surprised to see a picture from you of a non-coated part Batman.



I just dropped all of my stuff off at the machine shop. It's a good feeling. Maybe in three weeks I'll be ready for reassembly.

He's going to check out my OEM valves to see if they're within spec. If they are, I'll probably reuse them. I'm looking at springs now....

 

[BATMANs]

I'm surprised to see a picture from you of a non-coated part Batman.



I just dropped all of my stuff off at the machine shop. It's a good feeling. Maybe in three weeks I'll be ready for reassembly.

He's going to check out my OEM valves to see if they're within spec. If they are, I'll probably reuse them. I'm looking at springs now....

The block will be clear coated for gloss effect and to help protect from oxidation.

My springs and valves are all in spec. Excellent condition so I figured u should be too.

 

[RYU]

Finally the guy ahead of me just had his block delivered.

I'm back on track.

Some time this week my heads will be ready for ceramic coatings.

I thought you were putting together your own build thread :wink:

+1 on the coating comment. Seems like SOP for you these days :smile:

 

[BATMANs]

.....Seems like SOP for you these days :smile:

Coating is SOP for over a decade for me.

 

[Mac Attack]

Are you re-using your OEM springs Batman? I see you're using the Ferrea valves - if mine are somehow out of spec, I'd go with those too:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1534531&postcount=24

I looked at SOS springs. I assumed they were Supertech ones, but the C30/32A Supertech springs listed on KingMotorsports specifies different specs than SOS lists on their website (the ones King sells are stiffer).

DA has listed Eibach valve springs in some of their build sheets

 

[BATMANs]

Are you re-using your OEM springs Batman? I see you're using the Ferrea valves - if mine are somehow out of spec, I'd go with those too:
http://www.nsxprime.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1534531&postcount=24

I looked at SOS springs. I assumed they were Supertech ones, but the C30/32A Supertech springs listed on KingMotorsports specifies different specs than SOS lists on their website (the ones King sells are stiffer).

DA has listed Eibach valve springs in some of their build sheets

Yes, I am using my OEM springs for the following reasons:

1. my shop measured the spring rates and they are all within spec.
2. Honda OEM springs are known to last a long long time
3. The spring rates (if i recalled correctly) are at 90lbs. Which is lower than the aftermarket ones. As long as it gets the job done then I'm happy. Lower spring rates means that there is less parasitic power losses.

I think the SOS (but not confirmed) are the Supertech. Supertech is in the Bay Area so it would make sense for me to support local business, but my research didn't provide me any confidence that the valve heads won't come off should I accidentally mis-shift and the valves and pistons where to come in contact.

If I were to buy springs I would have confidence in the Ferrea valve springs. As with their valves their forgings are very impressive.

I didn't research the OEM NSX springs much but for some reason (while glancing at info) I was under the impression that not all years engine had dual springs. Can someone confirm?

 

[L_RAO]

Yes, I am using my OEM springs for the following reasons:
I think the SOS (but not confirmed) are the Supertech. Supertech is in the Bay Area so it would make sense for me to support local business, but my research didn't provide me any confidence that the valve heads won't come off should I accidentally mis-shift and the valves and pistons where to come in contact.

If I were to buy springs I would have confidence in the Ferrea valve springs. As with their valves their forgings are very impressive.

I didn't research the OEM NSX springs much but for some reason (while glancing at info) I was under the impression that not all years engine had dual springs. Can someone confirm?

The B/K series guys are not big fans of Supertech. That automatically makes me leary of their products for my engine.

Ferrea does not make a valvespring specific to the NSX. They told me that they've retrofitted their B-series springs onto the NSX, but that was for a 1000 hp race car. Yes, their valves are considered the best in the business.

I am under the impression that 3.0s came with single springs, while 3.2s came with dual springs, but I am not certain.

 

[BATMANs]

Here are pics of the mild porting from yesterday.

The purpose of the porting was not to enlarge the ports, but clean up the casting imperfections such as where the cast and the valve seats, make sure that the cast is matched to the gaskets, etc.

Once the other head and manifold are finished being ported I'll drop them off for the coatings.

 

[BATMANs]

Getting hot tanked cleaning after the porting.

 

[BATMANs]

Sorry for the low quality pics. I'll swing by with my Nikon SLR with a micro lens to capture the details later on.

 

[BATMANs]

OEM vs. ported.

 

[BATMANs]

Look at the area where the vane splits the air. In the porting it's been sharpened. I almost cut my fingers on it. :biggrin:

 

[BATMANs]

....I am under the impression that 3.0s came with single springs, while 3.2s came with dual springs, but I am not certain.

Yea, for some reason I too thought that the 3.0 had single valve springs, but when they pulled my engine apart my engine came with dual springs. There wasn't any spring replacement from the previous owners to my knowledge.

 

[L_RAO]

Nice work.

Who did the porting?

 

[gsrboy]

It is dual, mine came out with dual as well.

 

[BATMANs]

Nice work.

Who did the porting?

Thanks.

It's done by Ellsworth machine shop.

They've been in business for 43 years. I think they are experienced.

They do work for Dinan across the street.

 

[L_RAO]

Did they do any flow testing?

How much did they charge, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[BATMANs]

Did they do any flow testing?

How much did they charge, if you don't mind me asking?

That shop doesn't do flow bench testing, but he does have access to one.

I recall him mentioning that it's $65 for each cylinder/port - if that makes sense. I asked him to do flow bench testing after the porting and ceramic coating.

Polishing isn't needed since I need the rough surface for the ceramic coating to adhere too and the coating will smooth most, if not all of the porting textures.

 

[L_RAO]

$65 per port is quite reasonable.

I'm assuming the valve job is a separate item?

Also, the coating you are referring to, is that the same "NASA" special coating you are privy to?

 

[BATMANs]

$65 per port is quite reasonable.

I'm assuming the valve job is a separate item?

Also, the coating you are referring to, is that the same "NASA" special coating you are privy to?

For the actual porting work it's $300~ for both heads if I recalled the conversation.

3 angle Serdi valve job is $395 for both heads.

And yes, it's that special coating that a famous Aerospace & Defense company uses. :biggrin:

 

[L_RAO]

I just spoke with Shad at Driving Ambition and he confirmed that the gasket is partially made of phenolic material (with insulating properties), and also that it should be re-usable in most instances.

 

[Mac Attack]

Yes, I am using my OEM springs for the following reasons:

1. my shop measured the spring rates and they are all within spec.
2. Honda OEM springs are known to last a long long time
3. The spring rates (if i recalled correctly) are at 90lbs. Which is lower than the aftermarket ones. As long as it gets the job done then I'm happy. Lower spring rates means that there is less parasitic power losses.

I think the SOS (but not confirmed) are the Supertech. Supertech is in the Bay Area so it would make sense for me to support local business, but my research didn't provide me any confidence that the valve heads won't come off should I accidentally mis-shift and the valves and pistons where to come in contact.

If I were to buy springs I would have confidence in the Ferrea valve springs. As with their valves their forgings are very impressive.

I didn't research the OEM NSX springs much but for some reason (while glancing at info) I was under the impression that not all years engine had dual springs. Can someone confirm?

As mentioned, all have dual springs.

Are you putting new OEM keepers and retainers then? DAL broke OEM ones and ruined a few engines by reusing them. I'd highly recommend new ones! Why not new seats too?

Oh, I couldn't find valve spring rates in the SM, just the heights. It's interesting that they have two specs - one for Nippon-made, and one for Chuo-made inner and outer springs.

I'm curious what rates the OEM ones are. If you run FI, and roughly estimate the valve area is 1.3in^2, then 10psi of boost would require stiffer springs (13 pounds) to compensate and ensure the same sealing force, even if you haven't changed camshafts or increased your engine speed.

So, I would like to have slightly stiffer springs, but obviously not much. Of course, if we're limited to Supertech, then I may decide to stay OEM like Batmans. I've asked NSX engine builders in the past if they've had negative experiences with Supertech (springs and Ti retainers) and they haven't.

Still, I've heard the negative things too and that makes me uneasy.

My $0.02.

Dave