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Sept 11 Conspiracy?!?!

Joined
2 October 2001
Messages
8,546
Location
Melb. AUSTRALIA
I will stick with the conventional wisdom including witness accounts from such persons as my brother-in-law, a Lt. Colonel in the Marines, who happened to be assigned to that area on 9/11.
 
It had to happen eventually. There are always naysayers that will dispute anything and everything. Sometime in the future (if not already) we will see stories stating flatly that 9/11 never happened.
 
Ha, that's so silly. I'm sure Ted Olson wishes his wife didn't parish. Barbara Olson was one of my favorite pundints.
 
So... his main argument is you couldnt see airplane parts in the tiny photos???

Perhaps he could try explaining why you cannot see any airplane parts in the WTC rubble?!? By his line of reasoning, there should be huge pieces of airplane lying in there. Where did it all go? GASP! Its a government conspiracy and they are covering up for the fact terrorists drove a pair of truck bombs 700 feet into the air and into the sides of the WTC! :rolleyes:

What the hell are they smoking?



-- Joe
 
NeoNSX said:
There's a conspiracy theory going around that the Pentagon was never hit by a plane on September 11; but rather it was either a missile or truckbomb.

I don't mean to be disrespectful to victims to Sept 11, but when i read this I was scratching my head in wonder. I thought this would be a good topic to voice opinions about. :)

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

http://members.fortunecity.com/911/hufschmid/PentagonPlaneCrash.html

what do you think?

I can assure you and anyone else out there that it was a plane. I personally know more than 5 people that witnessed it in real time. The main highway that runs adjacent to the Pentagon was filled with 100's of other ordinary folks that saw the plane hit.

I drove to the a site two nights later where the news vans were setup.... and even 100's of yards away/days after, I could still smell the jet fuel.
 
xsn said:
Do you believe everything you read on the Internet? Exploding spider cactus, 911 conspiracies, giant camel spiders...... You Aussies are too trusting, you should be more cynical... ;)

...... and make Snopes your homepage http://www.snopes.com/rumors/pentagon.htm


:D Us Aussies are VERY cynical and sarcastic.
I didn't say i believed this. It had me wondering what people would come up with next, and also if anybody would believe it. I didn't want to state my opinion in the first post, otherwise it influences everyone else's opinon.

...i'm still hoping that exploding catcus is real though.... :D
 
A more plausible consiracy theory would be the Oklahoma City bombing. Tons of evidence points to this being tied to radical Islamic extremeists and that McVeigh was not the "lone assasin."

Among the evidence is:
(1) McVeigh's partner, Terry Nichols, had a a passport to (and travelled to) the Phillipines (AQ hotbed) within one day of known terrorists.
(2) Terry Nichols' name appeared in visitor records at an apartment in the Phillipines of a known terrorist and on a laptop recovered from it.
(3) Survivors of the bombing reported hearing two distinct explosions (I saw these accounts on TV myself), the second was of much greater intensity. Yet government officials stand by the one-explosion theory.
(4) Pertaining to #3, it is believed by some that a sophisticated type of bomb called a barometric bomb was used, not a truck full of fertilizer. A barometric bomb has two separate explosions: the first to difuse a highly explosive chemical in gaseous form and the second ignites the gas causing the real damage. Traces of this very specific substance was collected at the disaster site.
(5) Experts say that a truck full of fertilizer exploding would have scattered fertilizer all over the place. There was none.

There's a ton of info out there...make up your own minds.
 
kgb_agent said:
A more plausible consiracy theory would be the Oklahoma City bombing. Tons of evidence points to this being tied to radical Islamic extremeists and that McVeigh was not the "lone assasin."

Among the evidence is:
(1) McVeigh's partner, Terry Nichols, had a a passport to (and travelled to) the Phillipines (AQ hotbed) within one day of known terrorists.
(2) Terry Nichols' name appeared in visitor records at an apartment in the Phillipines of a known terrorist and on a laptop recovered from it.
(3) Survivors of the bombing reported hearing two distinct explosions (I saw these accounts on TV myself), the second was of much greater intensity. Yet government officials stand by the one-explosion theory.
(4) Pertaining to #3, it is believed by some that a sophisticated type of bomb called a barometric bomb was used, not a truck full of fertilizer. A barometric bomb has two separate explosions: the first to difuse a highly explosive chemical in gaseous form and the second ignites the gas causing the real damage. Traces of this very specific substance was collected at the disaster site.
(5) Experts say that a truck full of fertilizer exploding would have scattered fertilizer all over the place. There was none.

There's a ton of info out there...make up your own minds.

The oklahoma city bombing is a very plausible conspiracy theory.

-All the media reports during the day was all about the two explosions, and then the gov't said there was only one
- IF you look at the photos...it's amazing one truck can make such a tiny hole in the ground, yet blow off half of a building
- Experts analyzing the explosion and the pattern of damage beleive it was exploded from inside with bombs on the supports
- There were nearly 12 cameras either security or in neraby buildings that would have captured the truck and the actiivities that day yet only 1 has surfaced, where are all the others.

Alex Jones has all the facts and the live footage to back it up at www.infowars.com
 
Regarding Oklahoma City, here is some info:

Listen to the CNN reporting that morning:

CNN041995.mp3

As you can hear above, there were other bombs found INSIDE the building, but all that was forgotten by the end of that day. While they all reported about the additional bombs that morning, none of the major media outlets ever mentioned the finding of additional bombs after that morning in any of the later coverage on the subject.

Obviously if there were bombs inside the building, then the conspiracy runs much deeper than McVeigh and Nichols, as neither of them would have had access to the interior of this Federal Building. The bombs were found in places such as the air conditioning ducts. :confused:
 
Eric5273 said:
The bombs were found in places such as the air conditioning ducts. :confused:


Why didn't the defense bring this up at trial?

Btw, there are at least 5 sections of that audio clip that have been altered.
 
Can anyone find any photos or video immediately following the "attack" on the pentagon that shows any piece of a jetliner? Wing, tail, engine, baggage? This was a four story building with a big lawn out front, not one of the tallest buildings in the world. Wreckage should be easy to find.
 
Once again the idiots come out of the woodwork. Check the Snopes site, and read up on threads already on this forum that go into detail very thoroughly this whole stupid Sept 11 conspiracy theory and how implausible it is. Coming from an aviation standpoint alone, I can (and have) debunked the Alex Jones' and other kooks' assertions that 9/11 was somehow not what it seems.

Neo, thanks (but no thanks) for soiling this forum with this garbage again.

Never forget 9/11.

:mad:
 
I'm not an idiot. I don't appreciate being called one.

I read snopes.com regularly by the way. But the snopes.com explanation has holes. And as far as snopes.com is concerned, do Barbara and David P. Mikkelson research all of the info themselves, or just compile and reprint other sources. And if that is the case, are they free to pick and chose what they use to prove their case?

The snopes "report" uses language such as "likely", and "probably". Snopes makes the claim the aircraft first hit the helipad, but the helipad is out of the alleged path, and clearly undamaged in photos taken at the time. In fact, one photo clearly shows a man standing on the helipad watching the pentagon fire. And the alleged debris photo they show has been debunked.

Frankly, I tried to debunk this whole thing by looking around the net for video and pics. I didn't find any showing wreckage. Several I did find were minutes after the "attack". Very limited damage compared to the very large amount of deconstruction that followed.

Where was the aircraft debris taken? Where is one photo of an engine or any other large section of a 757 being removed? Surely some press photographer must have taken photos during deconstruction. Removal of baggage and large sections of a 757 should have been easily observed.

And frankly, I don't think it is idiotic to verify whatever our government tells us. They've lied too often to count.
 
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soon2own said:
Frankly, I tried to debunk this whole thing by looking around the net for video and pics. I didn't find any showing wreckage. Several I did find were minutes after the "attack". Very limited damage compared to the very large amount of deconstruction that followed.

Where was the aircraft debris taken? Where is one photo of an engine or any other large section of a 757 being removed? Surely some press photographer must have taken photos during deconstruction. Removal of baggage and large sections of a 757 should have been easily observed.


And frankly, I don't think it is idiotic to verify whatever our government tells us. They've lied too often to count.

Soon2own-
You are indeed being foolish. So what I heard you say is that, since you cannot find the right photos or videos on the internet, then there is a conspiracy. That is an interesting way to draw conclusions.

Here's a newsflash for you, the government did not tell us that a plane hit the Pentagon. The government confirmed what 100's of people saw first hand, what air traffic radars confirmed, what security cameras captured, and what we already knew. Since I live in the Pentagon's neighborhood, let me list a few of the sources that witnessed the incident that morning:

1) My good friend's wife: She worked in the Pentagon back then and watched the plane crash into the building as she waited for the parking lot shuttle bus with over fifty other people who all watched in terror simultaneously. Fyi, the plane impacted in the wing where she sat..... she is now a stay at home mom and cannot bring herself to go back to work after the drama of that day. She spent several months in therapy in attempt to find peace with that day.

2) Another friend of mine driving from Arlington to Alexandria (iow, right past the west side of the Pentagon) for work. He was in traffic and saw the low flying plane overhead taking aim at the Pentagon. 10 seconds later he watched from the drivers seat of his car as the plane exploded on impact. He was in the car with the 3 people in his carpool.

3) Hundreds of others on the roads in the vicinity of the Pentagon saw the plane fly overhead and streak into the building.

4) The fixed position security cameras that cover every inch of the Pentagon's exterior caught in on film as well.



Wise up.
 
I bet you're still waiting for Microsoft to send you your $10,000 for forwarding that e-mail to 100 people for checking their tracking software.

C'mon, common sense has to kick in somewhere. Couple jets crash into WTC, but the Pentagon.....that's gotta be a cover-up?

Anyone who believes the government can conjure up such a conspiracy in a matter of minutes, hours, days or even months is giving it too much credit for efficiency.

Bill
 
My friend is one of the founders of a group called "9/11 Citizens Watch". They are the group of the families of 9/11 victims, the ones who pushed for the commission to be formed to investigate 9/11.

He has been present for all the commission's hearings, as well as has seen much of the evidence, and has done lots of investigating along with the group.

I can tell you that there are many holes in the government's story, but the one posted in this thread is just absurd. However, this is the one that keeps getting thrown around in the media, which makes me think that this was intentionally put out there to discredit anyone who questions the official story as a kook or crazy person.

It's like reading in the New York Times a couple years ago that some conspiracy theorists believe that JFK was murdered by aliens. Kind of gives the impression that everyone who believes in a conspiracy is a nut.

But conspiracies do occur all the time, and sometimes governments are involved in them. About 60 years ago, somehow, the government of a European country managed to systematically murder 11 million people in concentration camps without over 90% of their own population being aware of it. Even today, many Germans believe the holocaust never happened. If the Nazis had won WWII and were still in control of Europe, I'm sure most of the world would believe the story of the holocaust was just some big "conspiracy theory".

9/11 is a conspiracy however you want to look at it. Conspiracy means that it involved more than one person. Most people seem to believe that a bunch of muslim extremists living in caves in Afghanistan were responsible. But very few believe the American intelligence agencies with $40 billion per year budgets could pull off the same thing.

What I can tell you is that the 9/11 conspirators, whoever they may be, had inside help. Whether or not this went to the top levels of our government has yet to be investigated. But about 100 different things had to go wrong in the months prior and on that day for their plan to succeed. About a dozen government agencies had to make mistakes, do things against policy, fail to follow proper procedure, etc, and this includes members of the Bush Administration. Whether or not you want to argue that it was intentional or just plain imcompetence is a debate for another time.

As far as the plane hitting the Pentigon, of course it did. Maybe what you should wonder about is why it was not shot down. Why Andrews Air Force base, which is 10 miles away, failed to deploy a single fighter that morning until after the plane hit, even though they knew the plane was hijacked and coming towards Washington for about a half hour. Or why they did not use the surface to air missles located around the Pentigon itself.

It's certainly a sad day when our $400+ billion per year Military cannot even protect their own building from an attack. :(
 
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