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Splitter too much for R wing?

MetalSpikeRacing

MetalSpikeRacing

Experienced Member
Joined
20 March 2009
Messages
1,348
Location
Toronto/Cancun
Hey guys,
Thinking about making a splitter and battery undertray for my car this winter, The thing that is stopping me is that I only have an R wing.
Im afraid that the splitter will make me gain more front downforce than the Rwing can compensate for, my splitter will only stick out about 2" at the front.

What are your thoughts on this? Does the Rwing makes enough downforce?

-MSR
 
From my readings some say the R wing actually does very very... very little in terms of actual downforce.

I'd make your tray and your undercarriage and try it out. If it works then great, if not just pull it back off and store in garage until you figure out what some of the other drivers are doing...
 
The R-wing definitely generates more downforce than stock, so it makes sense to add a modest splitter.
Adding more rear DF than front DF is worse than vice versa. If you add more DF at front the worst that can happen is a bit more drag and reduced top speed. Whereas adding to much rear DF with no balancing DF at front can lead to light front end syndrome = understeer.
I'd say a 2" splitter is a suitable choice.
 
Ask cl65captain. I think Jim has tried all these variations on the track and knows it well.
 
The 2" front splitter will increase downforce enough to cause a slight oversteer. When I was running the GT300 wing there was no increase in oversteer. When I went to the Type R wing and all things remained unchanged, there was a tendency towards oversteer. However, this can be brought back towards neutral adjusting the mechanical grip - ie I went back to OEM sway bar in the rear.

In other words, yes I found out that the splitter translates to enough of a difference in that it does change the balance. However, it was not so much that it was still within the realm of using adjustments such as sway bar, compression adjustments, alignment and tire pressure to balance it out.

So yes you will be fine adding the splitter and keeping the type r. You will just have to play with the "free stuff" - suspension settings and alignment, etc.

And BTW I was one who went from GT300 to Type R (DF) to OEM. I just prefer the OEM "look" and even though I track alot it's still first and foremost a street car. What I wanted to do is get a Kognition Designs wing and just swap before and after track days. There really is a tremendous amount of confidence and rear end grip gained with a big ass wing.
 
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[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Nice Captain,
That's my goal, to use a Taitec wing for track and swap it to Rwing for street use.
im already running -3* of camber all around, and I like the way the car feels as its set up right now.
1" front bar and .875 rear bar. I'll make the splitter, if I get oversteer I'll just set the rear bar on the softer setting, that should do it.


[/FONT]
 
MetalSpikeRacing said:
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Tahoma, Calibri, Geneva, sans-serif]Nice Captain,
That's my goal, to use a Taitec wing for track and swap it to Rwing for street use.
im already running -3* of camber all around, and I like the way the car feels as its st up right now.
1" front bar and .875 rear bar. I'll make the splitter, if I get oversteer I'll just set the rear bar on the softer setting, that should do it.


[/FONT]
Click to expand...
Or try a zanardi rear bar. What spring rates?

2" will be pretty effective. The R wing does make a noticeable amount of rear df compared to stock.
 
Spring rates are 11kg front and 9kg rear.

I really hope I dont have to change a sway bar, I cant get them locally and they are a pain to ship from the states.
Maybe I will be able to compensate with tire pressures and camber.

Thanks for the feed back guys, as always I appreciate it.

-MSR

stuntman said:
Or try a zanardi rear bar. What spring rates?

2" will be pretty effective. The R wing does make a noticeable amount of rear df compared to stock.
Click to expand...


Then again, the splitter might help, I already have some understeer.
look:

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/o_mmJwhD6E0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
 
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depends on what speed and radius of turn you have understeer.best of luck getting the balance correct for you.
 
I have a large 74" span 10 inch cord Kognition wing and a 5 inch splitter. The wing without the splitter causes pretty bad under-steer and my splitter with the type R wing causes over-steer (I dont run the splitter on the street on the way to the track). I also have the type R hood and a taitec diffuser so its not going to be exactly apples to apples if you don't. I was under the impression that the R wing helped generate low pressure at the rear of the car over providing any downforce. Ill try and find the video that discribed it. When I run both together I found I was able to readjust it to a neutral characteristic using wing angle, dampening/compression adjustments and tire pressures. I dont think that I have it all figured out- but the splitter and wing made for a 2 2 1/2 seconds on my local tracks. I can feel im much faster in the corners, full throttle where I couldnt be before but I also see that I am slower at the end of the straights. I figure the 4 seconds faster I am in the corners I am leaving about 2 of it on the table from drag. Now if i had more power that would be a problem....
 
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For what its worth I use a 2 inch splitter with under tray and nsx-r hood and OEM rear wing and have no issues with the understeer. The car seems to be pretty well balanced. I did just get a type R wing so I will update when I go to the track.
 
Illwillem,
Thanks for your feed back, very valuable info for for sure. I do have the Taitec diffusser too, Would you mine upping a couple pics of you car? I would like to see your set up. I just gave ya a LIke on FB BTW ;)

G3driver thats great to know, Yes Update please!!!
I wont be tracking the car a good while now, So I have sometime to work something out.
Also I would appreciate a pic of you Splitter, If you can.
-MSR
 
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here ya go, these are old, still in the middle of moving and dont have any of the new tweaks ive done. When you say FB do you mean face book? If so i haven't had that for years now...



<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=NSXcoldpits.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/NSXcoldpits.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>
<a href="http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/?action=view&current=VP3_0331.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v680/xburnitallx/VP3_0331.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>


 
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I like that kognition concept of "design your own wing". Looking at the front lip I'm guessing illwillem's NSX is fast, esp. on tracks with fast sweepers
 
When the German magazin SportAuto tested a original 2002 NSX-R in their own windtunnel they arrived at the following forces:

At 200 kph 18 Kg Downforce at the Front
At 200 kph 5 Kg Downforce at the Rear

So, actually, the combination of the NSX-R front undertray(s) and NSX-R hood and airduct generated more downforce at high speed than the NSX-R wing did at the rear.

Personally, I think that with the combination of a lowered car (the 2002 NSX-R stands pretty high imho) and a good fuel tank undercover and a good diffuser (perhaps the Diflow diffuser) will generate more downforce at the rear
 
They're interesting numbers, but as I understand without the NSX-R rear wing there is actually lift at the rear, and so the NSX-R wing adds a lot more than 5Kg downforce at 200kph. If OEM rear lift is (say) -20Kg at 200kph then the wing would be adding 25Kg of downforce relative to OEM.

According to this official Honda NSX-R site at 180kph the 2nd Gen NSX-R generates 36kg more downforce at the front and 25Kg more at the rear than the original NSX-R. As I understand these increases are due to front undertray and rear wing (I assume first gen NSX-R did not have the R wing)
 
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