Straight from my "Honda Update Email"

[queenlives]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

What huge chunk of loyal customers??? <snip>

Honda if you are reading please just make another sportscar..I'm beggin ya!

what he said.

 

[TC]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

What huge chunk of loyal customers??? They are still brand new 05 NSX's for sale. Most people on this board say don't buy a new NSX it's not worth it! How is that loyal? So many people here talk about wanting 500hp ,but then say they can't wait to buy it used.

If we're not the loyal NSX customers, then who is? 18,000 NSX's were sold between 1990 and 2005 and there are nearly 9000 NSX prime members. Sure, not all have NSX's but clearly we're the most enthuiastic group of owners.

Some percentage of members have purchased used NSXs but many of us (myself included) did buy a new NSX. And there are many postings on these forums of NSX owners who have subsequently purchased new 911 GT3's, Ford GT's, Gallardos and Ferrari's - so clearly that is many members have the finanial capacity to buy a new NSX if they were so inclined. The simple fact is that these isn't anything to buy from Honda.

Do 348 owners tell Ferrari that they messed up????

I suppose that they would had Ferrari kept selling the 348 for 16 years. Rather, Ferrari brought out the 355, 360, 430 over that time to the delight of their owners.

If we're their ( Honda's ) huge chunk of loyal customers then the project is fcked ,before it makes it to clay.

We are their biggest chunk of loyal customers - and prime members are problably more predisposed to buy a new NSX than other demographic. But you are probably right - the project is f$$$ed before it makes it to clay if the car is going to cost above $100,000.

I wish we were Honda's American source so then I could at least try to convince them to still make the Cayman killing HSC for only $50-60k ( with only a 300+hp V6 ).

I think this type of car is much more in line with Honda's corporate values (practicality, fuel economy) and ability to sell it than a $100,000+ V10 supercar that gets hit with gas guzzler tax. If they are diligent to keep the car updated and competitive, they can push upstream over the course of 10 years.

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

If we're not the loyal NSX customers, then who is? 18,000 NSX's were sold between 1990 and 2005 and there are nearly 9000 NSX prime members. Sure, not all have NSX's but clearly we're the most enthuiastic group of owners.

I dunno TC if they thought more of us why didn't they ever send us anything beyond the Zanardi? If they really thought of us as one of their best markets we should've at least been given Type S or NSX-R options. I mean they just completely left us out of the better performing NSX loop. Don't get me wrong I'm grateful they were still importing ,but it's still painful they we weren't given access to those other models.

Some percentage of members have purchased used NSXs but many of us (myself included) did buy a new NSX. And there are many postings on these forums of NSX owners who have subsequently purchased new 911 GT3's, Ford GT's, Gallardos and Ferrari's - so clearly that is many members have the finanial capacity to buy a new NSX if they were so inclined. The simple fact is that these isn't anything to buy from Honda.

Seems like the majority purchased used. Most of these guys who went with other models have left the board. Of course they would be the people Honda is trying to reach , just not the majority on our forum.

I suppose that they would had Ferrari kept selling the 348 for 16 years. Rather, Ferrari brought out the 355, 360, 430 over that time to the delight of their owners.

Yeah ,but let's not forget Ferrari had to go through all those models to catch up and then in the end surpass the NSX with the F430.

We are their biggest chunk of loyal customers - and prime members are problably more predisposed to buy a new NSX than other demographic. But you are probably right - the project is f$$$ed before it makes it to clay if the car is going to cost above $100,000.

Loyal customers buy new repeatedly. As I mentioned before there are still new NSX's to be bought. Jaguar was selling faulty crap at high prices for years and still their Loyal customers bought them. It pretty much has to cost more than a $100k for all the stuff most prime members say they want.

I think this type of car is much more in line with Honda's corporate values (practicality, fuel economy) and ability to sell it than a $100,000+ V10 supercar that gets hit with gas guzzler tax. If they are diligent to keep the car updated and competitive, they can push upstream over the course of 10 years.

Everything about this next car is pretty much un-Honda. It will be interesting to see what happens:wink:

 

[MoreRPMs]

I actually like that design. I am still partial to the HSC as it really looked like the natural, modern evolution of the NSX. I always thought the HSC looked great...:frown: I actually think if they tweaked the HSC just a little bit they'd have a winner even in 2010 w/ ~500HP.

I, too, like the concept of the HSC. But, I think Honda realized it wasn't designed around a 500 hp V10, so they backpedaled and came up with some crappy Super CL gen 3.

 

[TC]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

I dunno TC if they thought more of us why didn't they ever send us anything beyond the Zanardi? If they really thought of us as one of their best markets we should've at least been given Type S or NSX-R options. I mean they just completely left us out of the better performing NSX loop. Don't get me wrong I'm grateful they were still importing ,but it's still painful they we weren't given access to those other models.

I agree - I feel let down by Honda. I've been to 5 or 6 NSXPO's starting with the very first one in Denver. Honda/Acura was a major presence there. The second one in Ohio - we toured the Honda plant and were treated wonderfully. The last one I went to was Watkins Glen - Honda/Acura wasn't even there. What company wouldn't attend the annual gathering of the most enthuiastic owners of the most expensive product they ever sold? The 05 RL was just coming to the market - bring a few for us to drive - or at least to look at. Other than make a great, great car, Honda has done just about everything wrong with the NSX. It hasn't taken care of its owners. It hasn't given us the enthuiast models. It hasn't take care of the car - in terms of updates and model changes. Us prime members are what's left - hanging in there despite it all.

Yeah ,but let's not forget Ferrari had to go through all those models to catch up and then in the end surpass the NSX with the F430.

Whether it was the 355, 360 or 430 that surpassed the NSX, the point is that Ferrari owners have had little to complain about given that Ferrari has worked hard to move their product forward at a very fast clip. The 430 Challenge Stradale is coming to the market in 2007 and the 430 successor is already in the pipe for a 2009 release.

Loyal customers buy new repeatedly. As I mentioned before there are still new NSX's to be bought.

Loyal customers do buy repeatedly but there has to be a new product to buy. Say someone bought a new 2002 NSX, what would be the benefit to buy a 2005 NSX? That's the problem with the NSX, being on the market for 16 years, it just ran out of buyers.

If Honda brought a second generation of the NSX to the market and we (current owners) didn't buy them, then you would have a point of no loyalty. But you can't complain about no owner loyalty when there isn't anything new for current owners to buy.

Everything about this next car is pretty much un-Honda. It will be interesting to see what happens:wink:

It will be interesting to see if anything happens!

 

[TC]

I, too, like the concept of the HSC. But, I think Honda realized it wasn't designed around a 500 hp V10, so they backpedaled and came up with some crappy Super CL gen 3.

I liked the HSC too, but at this point I think Honda knows that they missed the window - the car is already 3 going on 4 years old. If it were to come out in 2009, it would be 6-7 years old. Cars like the Viper and Ford GT went from car show stunners to production models in 2-3 years.

 

[Zanardi 50]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

I dunno TC if they thought more of us why didn't they ever send us anything beyond the Zanardi? If they really thought of us as one of their best markets we should've at least been given Type S or NSX-R options......

Honda DID give us a Type-S NSX. 49 of them, many colors to choose from as long as it's FORMULA RED, substituted the fancy JDM steering wheels and Recaro bucket seats for boring stock USDM counterparts, and.....wouldn't you know - comes with a fancy numbered brushed aluminum plaque attached to the rear bulkhead with an engraved signature of that famous handicapped Italian driver who's, oddly enough, still drive race cars for a living. :wink: :biggrin:

 

[NSXLuvr]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

The 430 Challenge Stradale is coming to the market in 2007 and the 430 successor is already in the pipe for a 2009 release.

IIRC, There is not going to be a street version of the 430 challenge race car. Not even time or money until the next gen comes out.

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

I agree - I feel let down by Honda. I've been to 5 or 6 NSXPO's starting with the very first one in Denver. Honda/Acura was a major presence there. The second one in Ohio - we toured the Honda plant and were treated wonderfully. The last one I went to was Watkins Glen - Honda/Acura wasn't even there. What company wouldn't attend the annual gathering of the most enthuiastic owners of the most expensive product they ever sold? The 05 RL was just coming to the market - bring a few for us to drive - or at least to look at. Other than make a great, great car, Honda has done just about everything wrong with the NSX. It hasn't taken care of its owners. It hasn't given us the enthuiast models. It hasn't take care of the car - in terms of updates and model changes. Us prime members are what's left - hanging in there despite it all.

Again my point that Honda doesn't seem to consider us as possible buyers for the new car:frown:

Whether it was the 355, 360 or 430 that surpassed the NSX, the point is that Ferrari owners have had little to complain about given that Ferrari has worked hard to move their product forward at a very fast clip. The 430 Challenge Stradale is coming to the market in 2007 and the 430 successor is already in the pipe for a 2009 release.

A lot of them had plenty to complain about as they were stuck by the side of the road ( sorry couldn't resist ). People can always complain some more than others. We got what it took them years to get by a company with more years of building sportscars. Honda was losing money on the thing and sportscars weren't their primary concern. Even if they had made the hp upgrades everyone was asking for over time they would had to have raised the price significantly much like Ferrari and others have had to. So instead of the People didn't want to buy the NSX because they didn't want to pay that much for a Honda. Again Honda didn't make the NSX as a 348 competitor just the best sportscar they could build and what do you know it was better than Ferrari's offerings for years to come. The fact that it was less expensive was a bonus although at that time people were like you paid $60k for a Japanese car

Loyal customers do buy repeatedly but there has to be a new product to buy. Say someone bought a new 2002 NSX, what would be the benefit to buy a 2005 NSX? That's the problem with the NSX, being on the market for 16 years, it just ran out of buyers.

The benefit would be having the last one made of a car you truly enjoyed. The problem for 04-05 owners is if we want another Honda sportscar we have to wait for them to make something else. Asking what's the benefit is like saying "it's not worth it".

If Honda brought a second generation of the NSX to the market and we (current owners) didn't buy them, then you would have a point of no loyalty. But you can't complain about no owner loyalty when there isn't anything new for current owners to buy.

You just showed no loyalty in your previous statement in saying there's no benefit in buying an 05 if you have an 02. When you really like something any little changes sparkle in your eyes. Talk to an avid collector of something and when you see something that looks like a duplicate in their collection they'll happily explain the minute differences. I could've bought a new 03 ,but liked the changes they made for the 04. I see the same thing on the S2000 boards so maybe this is common among Honda fans. I wasn't a Honda fan until the S2000. Since then I've loved every little change they make to the car ,because I love S2000's.

It will be interesting to see if anything happens!

Hey we agree:biggrin:

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

Honda DID give us a Type-S NSX. 49 of them, many colors to choose from as long as it's FORMULA RED, substituted the fancy JDM steering wheels and Recaro bucket seats for boring stock USDM counterparts, and.....wouldn't you know - comes with a fancy numbered brushed aluminum plaque attached to the rear bulkhead with an engraved signature of that famous handicapped Italian driver who's, oddly enough, still drive race cars for a living. :wink: :biggrin:

Again if Honda thought we were some of their biggest most loyal customers. We would've been offered more than fifty watered down Type S designer models. People here say Honda failed or neglected the NSX ,but in reality they just didn't send us ( U.S ) all the other great choices Europe and Asia enjoyed.

 

[TC]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

IIRC, There is not going to be a street version of the 430 challenge race car. Not even time or money until the next gen comes out.

Many car mags are reporting that there will be a 2007 F430 Challenge Stradale:

http://www.caranddriver.com/carnews/11944/spied-2007-ferrari-f430-challenge-stradale.html

http://www.automobilemag.com/future_cars/2008/0609_2008_ferrari_f430_challenge_stradale/

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/GeneralFuture/articleId=117416

Of course, spy reports aren't always right but spy pics are good indications and the success of the 360 CS also bodes well for a 430 CS.

 

[TC]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

You just showed no loyalty in your previous statement in saying there's no benefit in buying an 05 if you have an 02. When you really like something any little changes sparkle in your eyes. Talk to an avid collector of something and when you see something that looks like a duplicate in their collection they'll happily explain the minute differences. I could've bought a new 03 ,but liked the changes they made for the 04. I see the same thing on the S2000 boards so maybe this is common among Honda fans. I wasn't a Honda fan until the S2000. Since then I've loved every little change they make to the car ,because I love S2000's.

You're unbelievable - I'm a bad, unloyal customer because I didn't upgrade an 02 to and 05 so I could get what? The restyled shift knob? What other changes were there? I guess NSX and S2000 owners have do have to learn to love the little changes because that's all there is to love.

 

[White98LS]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

You're unbelievable - I'm a bad, unloyal customer because I didn't upgrade an 02 to and 05 so I could get what? The restyled shift knob? What other changes were there? I guess NSX and S2000 owners have do have to learn to love the little changes because that's all there is to love.

Oh come on, you forgot the extra 9lb/ft of torque at the sacrifice of 1000rpm of redline, and the safer handling at the sacrifice of less exciting handling. :tongue: And new lights and bumpers with hysterically large exhaust tips.:tongue:

 

[TC]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

Oh come on, you forgot the extra 9lb/ft of torque at the sacrifice of 1000rpm of redline, and the safer handling at the sacrifice of less exciting handling. :tongue: And new lights and bumpers with hysterically large exhaust tips.:tongue:

I think Wingz was talking about the NSX, not the S2000. That he found the changes to the 04 NSX compelling over the 03 NSX - that new shift knob and the fact that the CD changer and keyless entry came standard and were not longer dealer installed items. You see, when dealer installed items come directly from the factory, its like a whole new car.

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

You're unbelievable - I'm a bad, unloyal customer because I didn't upgrade an 02 to and 05 so I could get what? The restyled shift knob? What other changes were there? I guess NSX and S2000 owners have do have to learn to love the little changes because that's all there is to love.

Hey hold up friend. I didn't say you were unloyal or bad. Don't put words in my mouth. I haven't said anything bad about you. I said and you have it in quotes that you don't show loyalty when you say stuff like that. Well they changed more than the shift knob ,but as a fan I like the little stuff they did:smile: It's all in the details friend people who are unhappy should buy something else. It's your money be happy:biggrin:

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

Oh come on, you forgot the extra 9lb/ft of torque at the sacrifice of 1000rpm of redline, and the safer handling at the sacrifice of less exciting handling. :tongue: And new lights and bumpers with hysterically large exhaust tips.:tongue:

Hmmm isn't the power the same up top. you just reach it quicker? Safer handling came as a godsend for the kids who ran out of talent on the streets in early models. You can still kick the tail out when ever you want I've even been completely sideways before the traction control kicked. I know your being sarcastic ,but you honestly feel their that big in comparison?

I think Wingz was talking about the NSX, not the S2000. That he found the changes to the 04 NSX compelling over the 03 NSX - that new shift knob and the fact that the CD changer and keyless entry came standard and were not longer dealer installed items. You see, when dealer installed items come directly from the factory, its like a whole new car.

LoL Merry Christmas to you too. Come on TC your loyal and that's the only changes you know of? Your better than this:smile:

 

[White98LS]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

Hmmm isn't the power the same up top. you just reach it quicker? Safer handling came as a godsend for the kids who ran out of talent on the streets in early models. You can still kick the tail out when ever you want I've even been completely sideways before the traction control kicked.

The handling and extra torque is indeed "better" for most ordinary people who buy them (for instance my 58-year-old mom, who was interested in one in '01 but was afraid of the twitchy handling, and I can't say I blame her), but for harder-core enthusiasts like us it's arguable whether the engine and suspension changes are improvements. SCCA National-level autocrossers use a mix of S2000s in A-Stock, but most are AP1s and appropriately most of the championships are won with AP1s. There hasn't been a big shift to move to the newer, "improved" AP2.

I know your being sarcastic ,but you honestly feel their that big in comparison?

When they're big enough to stick most of my hand in there, that's where I draw the line... the old ones weren't a whole lot bigger than, say, an Accord's dual exhausts. It's not that they look bad, it's just a little ridiculous looking on an n/a INLINE four. I'd swap those honkin things out for a nice single pronto.

Oh and I forgot in '04 they made it shift better. Although it was already widely regarded as the best-shifting transmission at any price to begin with so...

 

[TC]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

LoL Merry Christmas to you too. Come on TC your loyal and that's the only changes you know of? Your better than this:smile:

I'm confused - are you suggesting that there is are changes between the 02/03 NSX and the 04 NSX beyond the shift knob? And the fact the the CD changer and keyless entry became standard items as opposed to dealer options (which really aren't "changes" to the car)? What else was there?

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

The handling and extra torque is indeed "better" for most ordinary people who buy them (for instance my 58-year-old mom, who was interested in one in '01 but was afraid of the twitchy handling, and I can't say I blame her), but for harder-core enthusiasts like us it's arguable whether the engine and suspension changes are improvements. SCCA National-level autocrossers use a mix of S2000s in A-Stock, but most are AP1s and appropriately most of the championships are won with AP1s. There hasn't been a big shift to move to the newer, "improved" AP2.

Didn't they soften the suspension on the 01's? I know they made changes to the 02 such as the glass rear window and such. Well the AP2's were changed to make them more streetable so I could see that track rats wouldn't be interested. I remember tests showing them to have equal track times ,but a lot of the 9k fans didn't like the thought of losing the extra 1k.

When they're big enough to stick most of my hand in there, that's where I draw the line... the old ones weren't a whole lot bigger than, say, an Accord's dual exhausts. It's not that they look bad, it's just a little ridiculous looking on an n/a INLINE four. I'd swap those honkin things out for a nice single pronto.

You got me on that one chief I actually went outside to see if I could stick my hand in the tip ( I couldn't of course ,but I sure hope the neighbors weren't watching :biggrin: ). You are truly hardcore! I swapped exhausts twice on my AP1 S2k and had to go back to stock because they were starting to give me headaches ( must be getting old ). The singles were/are even louder

Oh and I forgot in '04 they made it shift better. Although it was already widely regarded as the best-shifting transmission at any price to begin with so...[/QUOTE]

Yeah they are sweet shifters makes everything thing else seem "imprecise" IMHO

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

I'm confused - are you suggesting that there is are changes between the 02/03 NSX and the 04 NSX beyond the shift knob? And the fact the the CD changer and keyless entry became standard items as opposed to dealer options (which really aren't "changes" to the car)? What else was there?

Dash and seats had changes as well. Don't get me wrong I don't claim they're better for my money I just like to have whatever freshened tweaks I can get:biggrin:

My apologies to the rest of the readers of this thread for taking this thread off course. I'll have White98LS and TC beat me up in pm's instead:biggrin:

 

[TC]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

Dash and seats had changes as well. Don't get me wrong I don't claim they're better for my money I just like to have whatever freshened tweaks I can get:biggrin:

OK - my last quip. The dash and seats did not change (as in, new design or construction). Yes, new color options were available for 04 in terms of the color of the seat inserts and the color the the stitching on both the seats and dash. These changes are in the same category as a new exterior color - adding a new exterior color can hardly be called a "change" to the car.

Sure - get whatever freshened tweaks that you can, asuming the car has the colors - both exterior and interior - that you like. But assuming that the color combo that you want is available in 03 and 04, the ONLY difference in the 04 is the shift knob.

 

[WingZ]

Re: My take on this "Exotic" to be.

OK - my last quip. The dash and seats did not change (as in, new design or construction). Yes, new color options were available for 04 in terms of the color of the seat inserts and the color the the stitching on both the seats and dash. These changes are in the same category as a new exterior color - adding a new exterior color can hardly be called a "change" to the car.

Sure - get whatever freshened tweaks that you can, asuming the car has the colors - both exterior and interior - that you like. But assuming that the color combo that you want is available in 03 and 04, the ONLY difference in the 04 is the shift knob.

I've never heard this before?? You could get different colour seat inserts and dash stiching. They changed the color of the dash I know that ,but I thought the seat difference was perforation and stiching. What is it with you and the shift knob???? Does it help any if I said I replaced it?:biggrin:

 

[nsx1]

I looks like the car is pointed to the left (away from you) and it is showing the rear of the car.

WHAT IF...
the car is pointed to the right and showing the front of the car. You can actually see the acura style front grill.

I know the corner lights are red, but what if Honda (or someone) is pulling a fast one. Imagine the corner light being HID. Maybe someone can photoshop it?

 

[jadkar]

Forget it......


You're definitely looking at the rear of the car. However it's still possible the engine is tucked into the rear (although the hood seems excessively long). This would at least explain the grill in the rear. For those of you who claim to have never seen a grill in the back of a car I guess you haven't been behind any Ferraris

 

[NSX PTY]

Agree

For those of you who claim to have never seen a grill in the back of a car I guess you haven't been behind any Ferraris

What about the tailpipe, don't tell me they are fog lamps :wink: