stupid timing belt

[Synthesis]

ok i have to do something about my timing belt. there is nothing wrong with it.... i just don't know if it's ever been changed.

i'm going to let you guys decide.... should i do it myself or pay the dealership? they say they'll do all the belts, tensioners, and wp for 1675.... like a grand more than the parts cost, heh. i'm going to see if they will work a deal with me to do the camshaft seals and some other seals/gaskets for a lil less than that..... or if they will do a whole buncha other stuff for cheap (since they said they usually take the engine out to do the belts).

what do you think? should i do it? if they have the engine out what else should i have them do? i'm thinkin hoses.... duno what else.

like i said, i can't decide. i don't know how much of a pain this particular car is for the belts. i've seen the docs that are on here, and it looks like it's pretty involved.

either way, like i said, you guys decide

 

[Doc308]

I'm not a mechanic, but from what I understand, it's a difficult job for a novice. I had this service done on my car by a dealer in April '05 , with a total cost of $1557. That included a new timing belt cover at the tune of $202 ( I've since leaned that a hole could have been made in the original cover to clear the new style water pump--so the job could have been $200 cheaper). The parts came to $878 and labor was $560.

 

[dalybo]

timing belt replacement is a tricky proposition. I suppose since you are wondering if you should do it yourself that you have the requisite mechanical experience to do it. So...the next question is do you like doing stuff like this? If so, jump in and have fun and save $1000. On the other hand, if you think these kind of jobs are just a lot of work then I would have the shop do it

 

[Synthesis]

i love working on cars... haven't messed anything up yet.... but i don't wanna start with my nsx's heart. and i have this whole apprehensiveness toward doing work on the nsx.... i duno what it is. i guess i'm extra paranoid cause i think i'm gonna end up scratchin or messing something up in it. i have no problem doing minor things in it..... but i duno.... if it were my civic i'd take it apart in a second.... but it's not a civic hehe. and i've only had it 2 months.... that might contribute.

i just wanted to get a feel for how you guys feel about the whole thing. i know a lot of you have no problem working on your nsx..... anybody who started the timing belt and regretted it? i know i could do it if i take my time and be extra careful..... but i'd be a nervous wreck the whole time haha....

maybe i should be posting on a psychology forum, i duno...

 

[Thom]

If you've done similar mechanical work before it can be very straight forward. If you are leary then leave it to the pros. I like to do my own because I don't trust anyone else with my car. I give it a 7 on a scale of 1-10 for the first one, but about a 4 for the next time I do it. The big thing, have the pully tool, it really helps. Saving a $1k is nice for a few hours work.

 

[rae]

If you've done similar mechanical work before it can be very straight forward. If you are leary then leave it to the pros. I like to do my own because I don't trust anyone else with my car. I give it a 7 on a scale of 1-10 for the first one, but about a 4 for the next time I do it. The big thing, have the pully tool, it really helps. Saving a $1k is nice for a few hours work.

I have to agree with Thom, without the right tools dont attempt it. the tool is worth the ~ $ 150 dollars, there is a great posting on NSXPrime by Larry B. which you should read first, after that you will have a good idea what it will entail to do yourself.

I always work on my own car too, its a trust issue and I know everything is done right and with new parts when needed. :smile:

 

[Shumdit]

For those of you wanting to tackle this job (along with valve adjustment, clutch, and other items) one of the memebers here who is a Acura Tech is going to be producing a DVD video series to cover these items.

 

[Daedalus]

I have to agree with Thom, without the right tools dont attempt it. the tool is worth the ~ $ 150 dollars, there is a great posting on NSXPrime by Larry B. which you should read first, after that you will have a good idea what it will entail to do yourself.

I always work on my own car too, its a trust issue and I know everything is done right and with new parts when needed. :smile:

Yeah, can't have too many tools. Fundage is the limiting factor for me. I save money where I can.
http://www.thetoolwarehouse.net/shop/SP-60100.html

I agree--if you've done a belt before, go for it. My strongest recommendation is to turn the crank by hand after installing the belt just for extra peace of mind. You'll know if there's an interference without damaging anything.

 

[Bob Kenney]

i love working on cars... haven't messed anything up yet.... but i don't wanna start with my nsx's heart. and i have this whole apprehensiveness toward doing work on the nsx.... i duno what it is. i guess i'm extra paranoid cause i think i'm gonna end up scratchin or messing something up in it. i have no problem doing minor things in it..... but i duno.... if it were my civic i'd take it apart in a second.... but it's not a civic hehe. and i've only had it 2 months.... that might contribute.

i just wanted to get a feel for how you guys feel about the whole thing. i know a lot of you have no problem working on your nsx..... anybody who started the timing belt and regretted it? i know i could do it if i take my time and be extra careful..... but i'd be a nervous wreck the whole time haha....

maybe i should be posting on a psychology forum, i duno...

Had the same problem with my first NSX, bought a 2nd one that was a little rough and have torn it apart with abandon. Now its no problem no matter what is encountered; the learning curve is very quick. The cars are beautifully engineered and reassembly nicely. I like working on my cars and consider it fun as well as therapeutic; besides it lets me really come know the cars. It can be a little addictive once you get started; looking for the next upgrade.:biggrin: :wink:

Bob

 

[NsXMas]

It amazes me that you guys can do the timing belt yourselves.

I took auto mech in high school, but there is no way I can take the engine off and do the timing belt.

Hats off to you.

 

[Bob Kenney]

It amazes me that you guys can do the timing belt yourselves.

I took auto mech in high school, but there is no way I can take the engine off and do the timing belt.

Hats off to you.

I said its an addiction; 2 NSXs, 3 engines, 3 SCs some extra heads and now I need some more cams.
It all depends on what you think is fun.
I love to build them and driving one isn't bad either. :biggrin:

Bob

 

[john@johnhudakracing]

ok i have to do something about my timing belt. there is nothing wrong with it.... i just don't know if it's ever been changed.

i'm going to let you guys decide.... should i do it myself or pay the dealership? they say they'll do all the belts, tensioners, and wp for 1675.... like a grand more than the parts cost, heh. i'm going to see if they will work a deal with me to do the camshaft seals and some other seals/gaskets for a lil less than that..... or if they will do a whole buncha other stuff for cheap (since they said they usually take the engine out to do the belts).

what do you think? should i do it? if they have the engine out what else should i have them do? i'm thinkin hoses.... duno what else.

like i said, i can't decide. i don't know how much of a pain this particular car is for the belts. i've seen the docs that are on here, and it looks like it's pretty involved.

either way, like i said, you guys decide

In car timing belt changes for the NSX are seldom worth doing DIY IMO. Engine out is a different story, but it is difficult reading TDC and setting the cams at the angle. Being an interference design, it takes little to turn a weekend DIY belt change into a far more expensive engine swap.

In short, if you are considering a first timing belt change, start with a Miata or equivalent 6 and make your mechanical mistakes on a platform whereas the consequences are insignificant. Otherwise, using a shop for that specific repair may be a good idea for you, $1200-$1600 is cheap insurance on a $8500+ motor no matter what your experience level.

 

[Hugh]

(since they said they usually take the engine out to do the belts)

That should be clue #1 to find someplace else to do the work. The engine does not need to be removed to replace the timing belt, water pump etc..

 

[Daedalus]

Being an interference design, it takes little to turn a weekend DIY belt change into a far more

Exactly why you should turn the crank by hand before closing up.

That should be clue #1 to find someplace else to do the work. The engine does not need to be removed to replace the timing belt, water pump etc..

I think it's personal preference on the tech's part. Removing the engine may not be necessary, and it may increase the amount of time needed, but it makes the rest of the job easier and IMO reduces the risk of screwing up or putting a ding in the body.

 

[Hugh]

Have you looked at the service manual to see what's involved in removing the engine? It's about 10 pages of arduous work involving everything from removing body parts to vacuum hoses. If anything, the risk of "collateral" damage is much greater than replacing the timing belt the recommended way, which is a relatively simple task. Not to mention the unecessary hours and cost involved in R&R'ing the engine.

What you're suggesting would be akin to a dentist severing his patient's head just to remove the wisdom teeth.

 

[Daedalus]

Have you looked at the service manual to see what's involved in removing the engine?

Yes, I have. I've been studying the FSM quite a bit lately. Really, it doesn't look that bad. I've also looked at the clearance in front of the timing cover. Again, it's personal preference. I like having room to work. Doesn't seem that access is all that bad to remove the engine, and will make everything else easier. Pop the engine on a stand, good light, easy access--go to town. I admit I haven't done a belt yet (parts ordered). Maybe I will change my mind once I dig in; I'll let you know if I do.

 

[Doc308]

Ditto--I failed to mention that the engine does not have to come out for this job. The figures I gave you were for an engine-in job.

 

[Bob Kenney]

I would suggest if you decide to drop the engine out of the car do everything else you have on your list. This a winter project on my schedule; no rush; I don't dive it that time of year any way. :wink:
This is a great time to take on clutch, transmission and final drive projects. Not to mention its much easier to deal with head work, oil pump and other internals. This way you don't save any money but spend lots more on all additional items: I have experienced this personally.
An alternative is send the whole thing to SOS for a total rebuild and its all done right for you and only about 3 times the cost of the belt work alone.

Just some an alternatives to consider.:biggrin:

Bob

 

[rae]

Plenty of room -

 

[Synthesis]

thanks for the feedback guys.... i did see the SoS engine refresh program they have going, and was seriously considering it.... but like i said, the car is in tip top shape, just don't know about the timing belt. i'll prob get the timing belt done this time with a few other things and when i rack up some more miles consider the refresh program. i just wanna drive the thing without worry.

i'm think what i'll do is price it all out and work a deal before i make a final decision. if they are pricks and can't help me out on the price a little, then i will take my time and do it myself. if i can get a decent deal and all, i might take it in and get it done for insured service from an experienced tech.

until then, the nsx is sleepin in the garage

 

[53heloFE]

I did the timing belt and water pump job on my car last October and it was the first time I have ever replaced a timing belt/chain on any car. I was an aircraft mechaninc for a number of years and consider myself to be fairly mechanically inclined though. I would not take the engine out unless you are planning on having a lot of other stuff done as Bob said.

 

[CFNSX]

I replaced my timing belt and you donot need to remove the engine.
In fact the factory manual DOES NOT recommend removing the engine for this service.
You will need the factory crank pulley holding tool, impact gun/compressor , the factory valve adjustment tool , pins (or drill bits to lock the cams in place) and the usual hand tools.

Setting the cam alignment is no problem and I had no problem adjusting the valves with a compact mirror (from my lady) .....as visibility is a little difficult on the rear head.

In fact the only difficult part was getting the plastic cam belt covers back on ......you have to turn and twist the covers through a certain pattern as the clearence is tight.

This is not a job for the faint hearted and most factory mechanics donot enjoy this procedure but it can be done by a reasonably skilled and patient person.

I was told by my Acura dealer that if you mess up the cam timing (even the dealers have screwed this up) by no more than 3 teeth you will NOT bend any valves.......AND THIS IS A LOT...... 1 tooth would result in the engine not being able to get into VTEC.
So you will know immediately if you messed up.......just be carefull and you will have no problems.
I

 

[neilh]

Have you checked the VIN with Acura to see if they have a record of the belt being changed?

 

[Larry Bastanza]

Have you checked the VIN with Acura to see if they have a record of the belt being changed?

Records for maintenance are not nationally tracked in Acura's database. Only the servicing dealer would have a record of a timing belt change. Good clue is if the water pump is the new version.

HTH,
LarryB

 

[sahtt]

One of the crucial differences with the timing belt service is potential to screw your car up, simply put. I just finished this service, including all seals, timing belt idler pulleys, waterpump, etc., on my LS400. The Lexus dealership wants about 2 grand for this parts and labor due to the complex v8, with discounts I purchased all the parts for about 400.00.

However, my LS400 is the last year before they switched over to the interference engine setup. With the NSX, if you do the timing belt incorrectly, it will all go back together perfectly and once you start the car you just 'saved' youself the negative cost of a new engine.

If you attempt it, do so very carefully and double triple check the belt is on correctly. Nothing else you can do will really effect anything besides having to do it over. It gives you confidence in the workings of your car when you go this deep into it mechanically though, that I can contest to.