Supreme Court says Bush acted illegally

[Bear]

Hey Bear

I'm still waiting for that reply :smile:

As much as I don't want to make you the topic of discussion (your favorite topic I'm sure.. Do I have to tell you that writing off millions as mindless is not only arrogant, self-descrediting, but also won't attract mindful people to discuss the issues you want to discuss? Here's an interesting topic... How is it that a smart guy like you has become the 'bigot' in our society?

 

[Ski_Banker]

.. and so, democrats must spend most of their time deceiving voters if they have any chance of winning in November. (As you can see, some here buy into that party line and repeat it constantly.) Republicans also do this, but need to run a deception to get votes way less often than democrats.

And I thought only the hippie pansy democrats were the ones that used LSD. Did you have a head injury in a bad car accident recently??

 

[Ski_Banker]

Actually, the Iraq/terrorism issue has been beaten to death. Shall we move on to other areas of incompetence?

Here's 1: Social Security and Medicare reforms... both were hot topics, and #1 domestic agenda items after the '04 elections. Both houses of Congress are on your side. What happened? These two liabilities are bigger than any ticking time bomb al quaeda could plant on our soil.

Ask yourself, when was the last time you heard these critical issues being addressed?

 

[Bear]

Actually, the Iraq/terrorism issue has been beaten to death. Shall we move on to other areas of incompetence?

Here's 1: Social Security and Medicare reforms... both were hot topics, and #1 domestic agenda items after the '04 elections. Both houses of Congress are on your side. What happened? These two liabilities are bigger than any ticking time bomb al quaeda could plant on our soil.

Ask yourself, when was the last time you heard these critical issues being addressed?

[slap!]

 

[WingZ]

As much as I don't want to make you the topic of discussion (your favorite topic I'm sure.. Do I have to tell you that writing off millions as mindless is not only arrogant, self-descrediting, but also won't attract mindful people to discuss the issues you want to discuss? Here's an interesting topic... How is it that a smart guy like you has become the 'bigot' in our society?

Ouch...bigot! I've been called arrogant before ,but never bigot. Americans have written off other groups for years using stonger terms than the word "stupid" that I used and you think I'm a bigot. I don't want to say that that's laughable as that would further me in the arrogant category ( at least in your eyes ) and addressing the "self descrediting" would take some more info on your part. I've never once used the term "in my opinion" in this or any other thread so I don't know why you think "I'm my favorite topic" which plainly I'm not ,but of course your allowed to feel that way. But hey at least you didn't talk about my "momma"...LoL

Okay Bear with those so called "truths" addressed now please enlighten us on the current topic and what we've missed in these discussions so far:biggrin:

 

[Ski_Banker]

Ouch!! Well, at least you didn't get bitch slapped by an idiot.

Hey Bear, mull this one over and jot down an intelligent response:

1. We are at War - a "War on Terrorism"
2. All Wars have a beginning point (9/11) and an end point
3. All Wars have ended with either:
a) One side killing ALL of the other side
b) One side killing enough of the other side for a white flag defeat; or
c) Stalemate and a negotiated truce

Answer this: which, if you think this War on Terror, can be "won" and will "end" is going to occur? A) We kill all the terrorists, B) They negotiate a defeat or C) We negotiate a truce with Al Quaeda/Others.

If you don't think that this War on Terror will ever end, then it is not in fact a war, just a fact of life...like the pollution, mosquitoes and bad drivers that kill millions of people around the world every year.

 

[WingZ]

Ouch!! Well, at least you didn't get bitch slapped by an idiot.

Hey Bear, mull this one over and jot down an intelligent response:

1. We are at War - a "War on Terrorism"
2. All Wars have a beginning point (9/11) and an end point
3. All Wars have ended with either:
a) One side killing ALL of the other side
b) One side killing enough of the other side for a white flag defeat; or
c) Stalemate and a negotiated truce

Answer this: which, if you think this War on Terror, can be "won" and will "end" is going to occur? A) We kill all the terrorists, B) They negotiate a defeat or C) We negotiate a truce with Al Quaeda/Others.

If you don't think that this War on Terror will ever end, then it is not in fact a war, just a fact of life...like the pollution, mosquitoes and bad drivers that kill millions of people around the world every year.

I'm trying to give him ( bear ) the benefit of the doubt ,but at this point he isn't really giving me/us too much to work with. He called me self descrediting yet he's done nothing so far ,but try a personal attack that best guess was supposed to incite me to attack him. His "slap" response to you is furthering the thought that he has about as much real thought on this thread as Bush put into invading Iraq. To his credit I've seen Bear be helpful to other NSX owners.

Oh well maybe someone else will step up to the plate:smile:

 

[WingZ]

Newsflash straight from the NSA concerning wiretaps

http://www.newsday.com/media/flash/2006-06/23671673.swf

 

[Arshad]

Not to split hairs, but there has never been a war at any point in history that meets those standards. Whether a war in Iraq was justified or not, it is not historically fair to assert those variables should be met for a decision to go to war to be justified.

That's fair, but we DID have international support and good intelligence and a darn good reason to go after Al-Qaeda in Afghanistan.

So why is it that the US has about 15x the troops in a country that had NOTHING to do with 9/11 or Al-Qaeda while Nato is struggling to find adequate forces to deal with the situation in Afghanistan. Weren't we supposed to be going after Bin-Laden and Al-Qaeda? Isn't what this is all supposed to be about? Today's senate report on the topic just reiterates what most of us have already known for a long time.

Just this past weekend, Canada lost a few more brave soldiers in their peace keeping force, while the US is focusing the vast majority of their energy and efforts in a country that didn't have the military might to deal with its own internal problems let alone be a threat to the US half-way around globe. The more antics that come to light about this current administration, the more ridiculous the whole situation becomes.

I wonder why it's not self-apparent to every rational and intelligent person that this whole "War on Terror" is a big giant farce. We leave huge gaping holes in our security where intelligence has told us we have weaknesses, yet we piss away hundreds of billions in a situation that is only encouraging and breeding more terrorists.

 

[WingZ]

I wonder why it's not self-apparent to every rational and intelligent person that this whole "War on Terror" is a big giant farce. We leave huge gaping holes in our security where intelligence has told us we have weaknesses, yet we piss away hundreds of billions in a situation that is only encouraging and breeding more terrorists.

I anwsered this question earlier and got called an "arrogant bigot"..oh yeah and self descrediting:biggrin:

Sorry for the loss of your country men , our administrations lack of planning has cost this and other country's dearly. Unfortunately it doesn't seem like we ( U.S ) have the resouces to do more in Afghanistan w/o sacrificing more troops from Iraq. It's sad that we sent resources to Iraq to get Saddam when Bin Laden was the architect behind 9/11 and as the annivesary of that date approaches we're no closer to catching him. Actually Bush doesn't even mention him ( Bin Laden ) anymore does he?

 

[Bear]

Ouch...bigot! I've been called arrogant before ,but never bigot. Americans have written off other groups for years using stonger terms than the word "stupid" that I used and you think I'm a bigot. I don't want to say that that's laughable as that would further me in the arrogant category ( at least in your eyes ) and addressing the "self descrediting" would take some more info on your part. I've never once used the term "in my opinion" in this or any other thread so I don't know why you think "I'm my favorite topic" which plainly I'm not ,but of course your allowed to feel that way. But hey at least you didn't talk about my "momma"...LoL

Okay Bear with those so called "truths" addressed now please enlighten us on the current topic and what we've missed in these discussions so far:biggrin:

You asked for new ideas. Left wing bigotry is quite an interesting idea, because of the lefts claim that they loathe bigots. However, when filtered through the prism of political correctness, it's ok. You said Bush is president because Americans are mindless. Oh boy. You're a bigot. Don't take it personally. The media made you one. You're not alone. In November 04, fueled by seething anger, Maureen Dowd and Paul Krugeman could not be restrained. They shocked many by saying that Bush was elected because of all the stupid, uneducated, hayseed, hick, lowlife, white trash americans that blindly vote republican. You called Bush an anti-Christ. In my eyes, those comments are beneath you (I hope) and unless you say I mispoke, they are self discrediting.

In the interest of new ideas.. how about forward looking ideas? Regarding Iraq, what should be done from now going forward? Saying Bush is bad is looking backward, whether it's true or not. The democrats need a forward looking plan that has teeth if they have any hopes of winning elections.

 

[WingZ]

You asked for new ideas. Left wing bigotry is quite an interesting idea, because of the lefts claim that they loathe bigots. However, when filtered through the prism of political correctness, it's ok. You said Bush is president because Americans are mindless. Oh boy. You're a bigot. Don't take it personally. The media made you one. You're not alone. In November 04, fueled by seething anger, Maureen Dowd and Paul Krugeman could not be restrained. They shocked many by saying that Bush was elected because of all the stupid, uneducated, hayseed, hick, lowlife, white trash americans that blindly vote republican. You called Bush an anti-Christ. In my eyes, those comments are beneath you (I hope) and unless you say I mispoke, they are self discrediting.

In the interest of new ideas.. how about forward looking ideas? Regarding Iraq, what should be done from now going forward? Saying Bush is bad is looking backward, whether it's true or not. The democrats need a forward looking plan that has teeth if they have any hopes of winning elections.

Ahhhh I see! Assumption is dangerous. I'm neither left or right wing. I'm not biased against Republicans at all. I would've voted for McCain over Kerry. I wouldn't stand by any party just because and say they're my party always have been. Nor would I sit up and say "I just vote straight party" like some of these other "mindless" Americans do. According to history that's how the Nazi's got started. I'm independent as this allows me to listen to what someone has to say and not just go along with a crowd. I do believe Americans can be stupid. Lets look at slavery the fore fathers sat and made a bill of rights saying all men are created equal yet they had slaves and almost all Americans at the time supported this. Are you telling me they weren't stupid? Yes I would really like to hear your anwser on this.

I don't believe in being PC so we'll have to leave this one for someone else to respond to. Also it's safe to say that someone's views may be prejudiced but to call the person a bigot through this limited view is arrogant in and of itself.

I won't go into the why I say Bush is a type of Anti-Christ all though I do stand by it and could show this in scripture ,but others have asked this not become this type of argument so I'll refrain. I'm very well versed in scripture and would not use such a term lightly since I fell very strongly about scripture being misapplied. We can go into this via pm's if you wish:smile:

This thread was not about offering new ideas on Iraq ,but since Bush just wants to "stay the course" what sense would that make. Funny thing is as we've been discussing this Bush has been found to be acting illegally and in an unconstitional matter once again concerning the treatment of prisoners.

Sidebar

You mention that I asked for new ideas yet you advanced none. You called me a bigot instead of addressing issues. Your emails toward me thus far have been patronizing and attempted to belittle. You've only succeded in discrediting yourself so far and added nothing to this discussion. Why not discuss what we've been talking about instead of calling people names and slapping them. Now if you've something to contribute other than name calling and slapping how about doing so:smile:

 

[Ski_Banker]

You asked for new ideas. Left wing bigotry is quite an interesting idea, because of the lefts claim that they loathe bigots. However, when filtered through the prism of political correctness, it's ok. You said Bush is president because Americans are mindless. Oh boy. You're a bigot. Don't take it personally. The media made you one. You're not alone. In November 04, fueled by seething anger, Maureen Dowd and Paul Krugeman could not be restrained. They shocked many by saying that Bush was elected because of all the stupid, uneducated, hayseed, hick, lowlife, white trash americans that blindly vote republican. You called Bush an anti-Christ. In my eyes, those comments are beneath you (I hope) and unless you say I mispoke, they are self discrediting.

Is there no one else on Prime that supports Bush? No one???? I know this is an NSX forum, but c'mon... I would like to engage in a thoughtful discussion of how, in just 5 years, a single administration and sycophant congress could fuck things up so much. Four years ago, after 9/11, the U.S.A. had the hearts and minds of almost everyone on the planet. And now... :frown:

 

[Bear]

Ahhhh I see! Assumption is dangerous. I'm neither left or right wing. I'm not biased against Republicans at all. I would've voted for McCain over Kerry. I wouldn't stand by any party just because and say they're my party always have been. Nor would I sit up and say "I just vote straight party" like some of these other "mindless" Americans do. According to history that's how the Nazi's got started. I'm independent as this allows me to listen to what someone has to say and not just go along with a crowd. I do believe Americans can be stupid. Lets look at slavery the fore fathers sat and made a bill of rights saying all men are created equal yet they had slaves and almost all Americans at the time supported this. Are you telling me they weren't stupid? Yes I would really like to hear your anwser on this.

I don't believe in being PC so we'll have to leave this one for someone else to respond to. Also it's safe to say that someone's views may be prejudiced but to call the person a bigot through this limited view is arrogant in and of itself.

I won't go into the why I say Bush is a type of Anti-Christ all though I do stand by it and could show this in scripture ,but others have asked this not become this type of argument so I'll refrain. I'm very well versed in scripture and would not use such a term lightly since I fell very strongly about scripture being misapplied. We can go into this via pm's if you wish:smile:

This thread was not about offering new ideas on Iraq ,but since Bush just wants to "stay the course" what sense would that make. Funny thing is as we've been discussing this Bush has been found to be acting illegally and in an unconstitional matter once again concerning the treatment of prisoners.

Sidebar

You mention that I asked for new ideas yet you advanced none. You called me a bigot instead of addressing issues. Your emails toward me thus far have been patronizing and attempted to belittle. You've only succeded in discrediting yourself so far and added nothing to this discussion. Why not discuss what we've been talking about instead of calling people names and slapping them. Now if you've something to contribute other than name calling and slapping how about doing so:smile:

Like I said before, I didn't want to make this about you, you simply called me out to respond to YOU, twice. So let's take you out of it.

Political correctness is a problem in this country, as you know, and it's predominantly a left creation. Many pro-democrat comments play into that. This does not help the democrats because the so called 'mindless' are hip to it. That's a fact.

I too am a registered independent. I'd love to hear some forward looking ideas from a dem candidate, which would allow me to vote for change. I just won't vote for change for the sake of change when there's no positive idea behind it.

The Nazi analogy can imo more correctly describe the left wings 'look the other way' attitude with regard to the militias we're fighting.

Regarding McCain, he's a democrat, substance over form. You may be a dem and don't know it.

Regarding slavery, the same thing goes on today. Ask who the influencers were in those days. It's economic. Slaves were cheap labor. Today, cheap labor (even high tech people) appears to be a smart not a stupid decision for some decision makers. I'm not sure it's smart in the long run. But, even 150 years ago, people understood economics better than you give credit for. Sad but true.

I think you are insulted by the term bigot because it carries the Archie Bunker stigma. But look it up, it means intolerant. The clinical description fits certain aspects of intolerance that are spewed as elections loom, and even by some highly regarded pundits.

This thread is about looking backwards. The counterpoint is look forward. Counterpoints are valid in any thread.

 

[WingZ]

Like I said before, I didn't want to make this about you, you simply called me out to respond to YOU, twice. So let's take you out of it.

Actually you put me in it. I asked for your response on issues. I have no reason to ask what you think of me as we don't know each other so why would I care.

Political correctness is a problem in this country, as you know, and it's predominantly a left creation. Many pro-democrat comments play into that. This does not help the democrats because the so called 'mindless' are hip to it. That's a fact.

You brought in PC not me. Again your trying to use me to further something you wish to say w/o just coming right out with it.

I too am a registered independent. I'd love to hear some forward looking ideas from a dem candidate, which would allow me to vote for change. I just won't vote for change for the sake of change when there's no positive idea behind it.

This has been difficult as they needed to address the mud the Republicans had been slinging. As soon as they talk die hard Republicans start screaming "liberal" instead of starting reasonable talks on an issue.

The Nazi analogy can imo more correctly describe the left wings 'look the other way' attitude with regard to the militias we're fighting.

Correct me if I'm wrong on this ,but when you say "imo" you mean in your opinion. If so this is the same arrogance you accused me of earlier while I've never used that saying once in this thread.

Regarding McCain, he's a democrat, substance over form. You may be a dem and don't know it.

Hmmm nope I checked he's a republican , but he's a moderate so only an extremeist would say something like this. Funny you say in one breadth that your independent which mean your moderate and yet you cancel that out with just about everything you write. Maybe your a repub and don't wish to admit it.

Regarding slavery, the same thing goes on today. Ask who the influencers were in those days. It's economic. Slaves were cheap labor. Today, cheap labor (even high tech people) appears to be a smart not a stupid decision for some decision makers. I'm not sure it's smart in the long run. But, even 150 years ago, people understood economics better than you give credit for. Sad but true.

No the same thing does not go on today the way that it went on 150 years were men and women were considered property. Split up from their families , often beaten most times killed. Treated below second class status. I don't know how you consider yourself to be human after calling early American slavery "cheap labor" to say such a thing shows possible KKK status and why you like flinging the term bigot around as it's something you might be used to hearing. Unless of course this is just your internet stance. A lot of cowards do this

I think you are insulted by the term bigot because it carries the Archie Bunker stigma. But look it up, it means intolerant. The clinical description fits certain aspects of intolerance that are spewed as elections loom, and even by some highly regarded pundits.

Again your assuming not thinking. I never said I was insulted and you presume much to think so. My "ouch" was sarcasm. You've no clue what my tolerance is and yet in your arrogance you wish to make this a fact. The only thing insulting me so far is the fact that you've accused me of all the traits your displaying. Sorry Bear I'm not your mirror or your dark reflection.

This thread is about looking backwards. The counterpoint is look forward. Counterpoints are valid in any thread.

Once you have a counter point why not post it. From all the nonsense you've posted you must be a politician. What's your counter point Bear? make the middle easterners "cheap labor"? Blame the whole lot on what a group of radicals did? Go on and say it what your thinking "those people" deserve it ,because we're Americans. Or better yet "they" started it. Hmmm how come nobody wanted to wipe out all the white people after Timothy Mcvie and his group did what they did?. How come when our fellow Americans do something like this "their" just a small group and not representative of the whole lot?

 

[Bear]

Actually you put me in it. I asked for your response on issues. I have no reason to ask what you think of me as we don't know each other so why would I care.



You brought in PC not me. Again your trying to use me to further something you wish to say w/o just coming right out with it.



This has been difficult as they needed to address the mud the Republicans had been slinging. As soon as they talk die hard Republicans start screaming "liberal" instead of starting reasonable talks on an issue.



Correct me if I'm wrong on this ,but when you say "imo" you mean in your opinion. If so this is the same arrogance you accused me of earlier while I've never used that saying once in this thread.



Hmmm nope I checked he's a republican , but he's a moderate so only an extremeist would say something like this. Funny you say in one breadth that your independent which mean your moderate and yet you cancel that out with just about everything you write. Maybe your a repub and don't wish to admit it.



No the same thing does not go on today the way that it went on 150 years were men and women were considered property. Split up from their families , often beaten most times killed. Treated below second class status. I don't know how you consider yourself to be human after calling early American slavery "cheap labor" to say such a thing shows possible KKK status and why you like flinging the term bigot around as it's something you might be used to hearing. Unless of course this is just your internet stance. A lot of cowards do this



Again your assuming not thinking. I never said I was insulted and you presume much to think so. My "ouch" was sarcasm. You've no clue what my tolerance is and yet in your arrogance you wish to make this a fact. The only thing insulting me so far is the fact that you've accused me of all the traits your displaying. Sorry Bear I'm not your mirror or your dark reflection.




Once you have a counter point why not post it. From all the nonsense you've posted you must be a politician. What's your counter point Bear? make the middle easterners "cheap labor"? Blame the whole lot on what a group of radicals did? Go on and say it what your thinking "those people" deserve it ,because we're Americans. Or better yet "they" started it. Hmmm how come nobody wanted to wipe out all the white people after Timothy Mcvie and his group did what they did?. How come when our fellow Americans do something like this "their" just a small group and not representative of the whole lot?

So in the end you have the answer to your original question.. as to why more Bush supporters don't post here. It's pointless.. even though your logic is weak and sporadic you will forever disagree with dissenters to your opinions and no agreement will ever ensue. No biggee.. but that's also why more forward looking solutions and ideas are needed. Because, on the upside elections will come and majorities will triumpth. At least, at that point, there's usually an agreement as to who won (except when democrats cry about losses and refuse to concede for a few days). Remeber when I told you you would not like it if Bush supporters chimed in? [check-mate]

 

[Ski_Banker]

Bear -- You haven't answered/addressed/spoken to a single point on this entire thread.

You seem to have strong convictions supporting Bush. Why can't you defend your baseless points? The Democrats haven't had the authority to effect so much as a change in the school lunch menu in years. How could THEY be at fault, if there is a fault to lay blame?

Trying to discuss/debate/argue this issue with you is like having a stairing contest with a mute...it just doesn't make any sense. :wink:

 

[WingZ]

So in the end you have the answer to your original question.. as to why more Bush supporters don't post here. It's pointless.. even though your logic is weak and sporadic you will forever disagree with dissenters to your opinions and no agreement will ever ensue. No biggee.. but that's also why more forward looking solutions and ideas are needed. Because, on the upside elections will come and majorities will triumpth. At least, at that point, there's usually an agreement as to who won (except when democrats cry about losses and refuse to concede for a few days). Remeber when I told you you would not like it if Bush supporters chimed in? [check-mate]

LoL No Bear your pointless! Check mate...LoL oh snap.....LoL

 

[WingZ]

Bear -- You haven't answered/addressed/spoken to a single point on this entire thread.

You seem to have strong convictions supporting Bush. Why can't you defend your baseless points? The Democrats haven't had the authority to effect so much as a change in the school lunch menu in years. How could THEY be at fault, if there is a fault to lay blame?

Trying to discuss/debate/argue this issue with you is like having a stairing contest with a mute...it just doesn't make any sense. :wink:

Actually the only thing he has is strong delusions

 

[Ski_Banker]

On today's Countdown With Keith Olberman (I couldn't have said it better myself):

Bush: "It's Unacceptable to Think"
[video]
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/

These other ones are also well stated...same link
KEITH OLBERMANN'S SPECIAL COMMENTS
MSNBC TV

• This hole in the ground
Sept. 11: A special comment about 9/11 five years after the terrorist attacks.
MSNBC TV

• Have you no sense of decency, sir?
Sept. 5: Keith Olbermann says Bush will regret following in the footsteps of Donald Rumsfeld in comparing war critics to Nazis.
MSNBC TV

• Feeling morally, intellectually confused?
Aug 30: Donald Rumsfeld said administration critics suffered from "moral or intellectual confusion.” Olbermann responds.

 

[DocL]

I didn't read many of the posts in this thread and I dislike political debates, but I do have one question. If President Bush has done so many terrible and illegal things why hasn't he been impeached like President Clinton?

 

[brahtw8]

I didn't read many of the posts in this thread and I dislike political debates, but I do have one question. If President Bush has done so many terrible and illegal things why hasn't he been impeached like President Clinton?

Articles of impeachment must be brought in the House. The Republicans in the House have shown little interest in oversight, unlike the Senate which is finally starting to exercise that power in limited areas.

At present, articles of impeachment could be brought for violations of FISA and the 1996 War Crimes Act. The latter fact is precisely the reason why the administration seeks to redefine Article III of the Geneva Convention. They do not and cannot deny this, as it is explicitly stated in the Gonzales and Yoo torture memos and the President has tried to spin this fact into justification for 'clarification' of Article III by arguing that without clarification our soldiers and CIA interrogators risk criminal prosecution.

 

[DocL]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I'll be voting Republican party line again. :biggrin:

 

[brahtw8]

Thanks for the clarification. I guess I'll be voting Republican party line again. :biggrin:

It is a free country.

I encourage you to take an honest look at the Republicans in the House and the lack of oversight before you vote. We are still waiting for Phase II of the investigation into the intelligence failures that led to the Iraq war.

 

[DocL]

It is a free country.

I encourage you to take an honest look at the Republicans in the House and the lack of oversight before you vote. We are still waiting for Phase II of the investigation into the intelligence failures that led to the Iraq war.

I certianly will do before the next presidential election as I usually do. I just wanted to throw a little sarcasm into the mix. I agree that there have been oversights and miscalculations, but this "war on terrorism" is unlike any battle that has been fought before.