This is truly the most disturbing thing I have ever heard

[Bryant95]

NKB writes, “This is my interpretation of your post. You stated your belief that we, as Americans, would rise up against the KKK if they sent people to foreign lands to kill innocent people in the name of the US. From that I infer that when the KKK kills and represses innocent people in our own country, in the name of the white race, that does not qualify for us to bring them to justice. Why does it matter where they commit their crimes?”

Obviously, the comparison is to Middle Eastern countries. Many people and governments throughout the region assist terror groups that attack Israeli civilians—on buses, at restaurants during holidays, at sidewalk cafes, at Arab-owned restaurants in integrated towns like Haifa, Israel.

If a criminal organization based in the US attacked Canadians, then, yes, we hope we would do more to stop it that the Middle East has done to reprimand Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Hezbullah……

Your comparison between the KKK terrorists and Hamas terrorists is flawed. First, you assume that the KKK does not speak for most whites, then Hamas cannot be popular, either. You assume that if the KKK has only the support of .5% [that’s half of one-cercent, a random figure and a guess for the sake of discussion] of white people, then Hamas must have support from only exactly .5% of its potential fan base.

First question: The KKK at what time period? When it’s membership soured into the millions in the 1920s, in response to immigration (largely Jewish and Catholic by faith; and Slavic, Sicilian and Semitic by ethnicity)? In the 1950s and 1960s, when terrorism was employed against Blacks and against civil rights workers (Jews and Gentiles)?

The KKK was not always at exactly one level of support throughout its history. The terrorists who killed civil rights workers in Mississippi, killed Black girls in Sunday school in Alabama, and killed (Georgia-born) Detroit housewife Viola Liuzzo, who volunteered to drive protesters in Alabama, could feel secure that white juries would not convict them of murder in the early-1960s.

You have to compare the marginal status of hate groups in North America to the status of hate groups in the Middle East. Hezbullah has the support of conservative clerics in the Iranian government. The Klan does not gets subsidies from the German government.

Hezbullah has its own satellite tv station (Al-Manar), broadcasting horrible denunciations of Jews to even Europe, where hooligans attack Jews and burn synagogues. Please check the fourth film down on the MEMRI video website for the “blood libel” footage.

The Aryan Nations may operate day care centers and churches in isolated areas, but Hezbullah controls patches of Lebanon, and operates schools and other centers that promote its view.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sd&ID=SP62303 http://www.memri.org/video/

 

[Bryant95]

When it’s membership soured into the millions in the 1920s, in response to immigration (largely Jewish and Catholic by faith; and Slavic, Sicilian and Semitic by ethnicity)?
[/B]

US immigration law curbed immigration starting in 1920, immigration law not changed until 1965. Nevertheless, the Klan's increased activity related to the presence of immigrants, and (according to historian Leon F. Litwack) to the emergence of "the New Negro," a generation of young Black Americans who did not grow up under slavery.

See Litwack, Trouble in Mind: Black Southerners in the Age of Jim Crow


http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/0375702636/qid=1085067314/sr=2-1/ref=sr_2_1/102-0237965-1584932 http://www.encyclopedia.com/html/section/kukluxkl_thesecondkukluxklan.asp

 

[jlindy]

you proved my point, if alcahole might bring out the worst of people and claods thier judgment, then why have it? can't we live without it? we know that it can't be a good thing, so why not leave it?

would you ever recomednd it to a child, even in small doses?

Yeah, I am with you and I know that I could live without it. I agree with you somewhat on that, but my point was that alcohol won't facilitate any action or desire that isn't already within a person; however, you are correct that it may enhance it. If you are the type of person that has deep seeded desire to do ill will, then your argument could possible stick in that alcohol may help one to manifest these desires, but that is not the norm. I am in no way a drinker, but don't discriminate against those that chose to have a cocktail after work.

would you ever recomednd it to a child, even in small doses?

No I would not, but I would not also hand a 6 year old a perscription bottle of medicine. Not because it is necessarily bad, but more so to do with maturity, responsibility, and the fact that a 6 year old isn't ready to make these decisions. Some people aren't mature or responsible enough no matter what age they are, but that doesn't mean everyone else will act the same. Not everyone abuses alcohol and of those that do, only a very small percentage of those have the mindset to do such a horrific acts such as molestation or indicriminate violence. In those cases the alcohol is not the cause of the problem.

 

[Arshad]

Holy crap! I just briefly skimmed over this thread and the amount of misinformation and outright BS that's present here is mind-boggling. Statements like 50-90% of muslims support terrorism are outright fabrications and an insult to me as a muslim. I think you'd be equally offended if I said that 50-90% of WHITE americans joyously supported the killing of thousands of jews in the holocaust just because Hitler happened to be WHITE. Give me a break. Go talk to some muslims, go visit a mosque, get some insight before making patently absurd claims.

The part that saddens me the most is that there are actually people out there that truly believe many of these things to be fact.

 

[Arshad]

Not everyone abuses alcohol and of those that do, only a very small percentage of those have the mindset to do such a horrific acts such as molestation or indicriminate violence. In those cases the alcohol is not the cause of the problem.


Absolutely. And to further your point, it should be noted that domestic abuse is quite commonplace in many muslim countries due to cultural mindset, where obviously alcohol is not the catalyst.

It's not so much that Islam prohibits alcohol as much as it specifically prohibits anything that puts your mind in a state of impaired control. It's easy to make the case for why certain substances (heroin, crack, etc) can be highly addictive and a "bad thing" (tm) in general. With alcohol on the other hand, a person can remain sober with moderate levels of beer/wine so it's harder to justify why it's necessarily a bad thing. In fact, some studies have shown that moderate amounts can actually be medicinally beneficial!

I think the one thing we can all agree on however is that while most people drink responsibly, it's easy to fall into the trap of having "one too many" before getting behind the wheel. People who drive impaired don't get behind the wheel with the intent of killing someone. So it stands to reason that if you never drink, or can control your drinking, you're never going to be put into that position to begin with.

Then again, there are people who rarely check their mirrors, are gabbing on their cellphone and are completely situationally-unaware -- and they're just as dangerous as any drunk driver on the road... sigh.

 

[jlindy]

Not everyone abuses alcohol and of those that do, only a very small percentage of those have the mindset to do such a horrific acts such as molestation or indicriminate violence. In those cases the alcohol is not the cause of the problem.


Absolutely. And to further your point, it should be noted that domestic abuse is quite commonplace in many muslim countries due to cultural mindset, where obviously alcohol is not the catalyst.

It's not so much that Islam prohibits alcohol as much as it specifically prohibits anything that puts your mind in a state of impaired control. It's easy to make the case for why certain substances (heroin, crack, etc) can be highly addictive and a "bad thing" (tm) in general. With alcohol on the other hand, a person can remain sober with moderate levels of beer/wine so it's harder to justify why it's necessarily a bad thing. In fact, some studies have shown that moderate amounts can actually be medicinally beneficial!

I think the one thing we can all agree on however is that while most people drink responsibly, it's easy to fall into the trap of having "one too many" before getting behind the wheel. People who drive impaired don't get behind the wheel with the intent of killing someone. So it stands to reason that if you never drink, or can control your drinking, you're never going to be put into that position to begin with.

Then again, there are people who rarely check their mirrors, are gabbing on their cellphone and are completely situationally-unaware -- and they're just as dangerous as any drunk driver on the road... sigh.

I agree completely. My statement was not presented with a specific race or culture in mind. I was just making a general opinion that alcohol can't be the cause. I am not familiar with the Muslim cultural mindset and/or any evidence that domestic abuse is any greater than any other country in the world.

 

[nkb]

Holy crap! I just briefly skimmed over this thread and the amount of misinformation and outright BS that's present here is mind-boggling. Statements like 50-90% of muslims support terrorism are outright fabrications and an insult to me as a muslim.

If you check closely, you will notice that almost all the BS came from one person

...supported the killing of thousands of jews in the holocaust...

I agree with your point, but, please note, it was millions, not thousands, of Jews, and millions more of all sorts of people of all backgrounds, that died during the holocaust.

The part that saddens me the most is that there are actually people out there that truly believe many of these things to be fact.

It is mind-boggling, I agree.

 

[Arshad]

I agree with your point, but, please note, it was millions, not thousands, of Jews, and millions more of all sorts of people of all backgrounds, that died during the holocaust.


Oops, what was I thinking? You're absolutely right, millions, not thousands.

 

[Accomplice]

You guys may be right. Its probably only 10% of Muslims that share beliefs with / aid/ support the terrorists. We needn't worry about 'em because that's only 200 million nuts against us.

 

[Arshad]

The only nuts I'm worried about are the crackpots who share the same mindset as yourself. They're the ones that'll torch my house or shoot me because they THINK I'm somehow tied to 9/11 just because I might be one of your 10%. Just like that poor sikh guy who was shot and killed right after 9/11 because some moron saw a brown guy in a turban.

Rather than label hundreds of millions of people as nuts, it might be prudent to drop some preconceived notions and do a bit of reading to learn a little bit more about what the religion preaches and how most muslims feel about terrorists and the taking of innocent lives.

You're obviously going to find people who support terrorists and their actions. Just like you're going to find people who perpetrate and support all kinds of terrible acts around the world today -- muslim or otherwise. The point is that Islam is NOT about terrorism, and muslims almost unequivocally condemn terrorism in all forms. Heck, in Islam, you're not allowed to harm the enemies crops or tree's even in the context of a war, let alone kill innocent people out of the blue. To claim otherwise is absolutely ludicrous and a slap in the face to decent human beings everywhere.

 

[Accomplice]

I'm glad you feel that way.

 

[Bryant95]

The Jerusalem Media & Communication Centre (JMCC) released a poll indicating that slightly more than half of Palestinians supported the Intifada as a way of abolishing Israel, not just liberating the occupied West Bank and Gaza Strip.

JMCC Public Opinion Poll No. 45 - May 29- 31, June 1-2 , 2002 reported, "Popular opinion increased its radicalization when 51.1 percent said that the aim of the Intifadah is to liberate all Palestinian land (historic Palestine) as opposed to 42.8 percent who said the Intifadah's aim is to end the Israeli occupation."

Also of interest, JMCC Public Opinion Poll Number 45 remarked, "As for suicide bombing operations, 68.1 percent of those interviewed supported them and only 26 percent opposed them."

Read it for yourself, the first link below. Thanks

Martin Asser reported for BBC News, " The Palestinian Authority leadership has frequently condemned the tactic of suicide bombings.... But that view is clearly at odds with how most Palestinians see the bombings, which have brought death and terror to Israel's streets dozens of times since the intifada erupted in September 2000."

http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2002/no45.htm http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2072851.stm http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=25745

 

[Bryant95]

Also of interest, JMCC Public Opinion Poll Number 45 remarked, "As for suicide bombing operations, 68.1 percent of those interviewed supported them and only 26 percent opposed them."

....
http://www.jmcc.org/publicpoll/results/2002/no45.htm

The Arab American Institute remarked, "When asked if they agree or disagree that Palestinians have a right to live in a secure and independent state of their own, 85.5% of Jewish Americans said they agreed, as did 95.6% of Arab Americans. Similarly, 96.6% of Jewish Americans agreed that Israelis have a right to live in a secure and independent state of their own, and 95.4% of Arab Americans agreed with them."

The remark was based on the 2002 joint poll of Arab-Americans and Jewish-Americans, a poll sponsored jointly by the Arab American Institute and Peace Now, American supporters of the Israeli group Shalom Achshav.

If anyone has a survey specifically of Muslim-Americans on Israel's and Palestine's right to exist , please let us know. (According to the Arab-American Institute, 77% of Arab-Americans are Christians.)

http://www.aaiusa.org/pr/release11-21-02.htm http://www.aaiusa.org/demographics.htm http://www.peacenow.org/about.html

 

[cmhs75]

Sure, sure, it's all a case of inaccurate reporting…

So I suppose that you refute the universally reported idea that the movers and shakers in the Kingdom as well as the government have supported whack job Madrasas throughout the Middle East, Asia, and Africa for years...

No, my friend, the recent evolution in the royal family's viewpoint, is due to bombs going off within the KSA itself. If they continued to think they were impervious to terrorism (or overthrow) and it was only happening to us "Crusaders" this same $hit would be continuing forever throughout the rest of the World -- and they'd be continuing to buy peace and quiet at home at the expense of the rest of us. (For your information, in the vernacular it's called "playing both sides against the middle.")

Only NOW that it's hitting close to home, and their control is in peril, are they getting the message and (perhaps) doing something about it.

LOL, OK I agree with 80%

the other 20% goes to the fac t that their vew on rerrorism was the same from the start of it, just read the link I attached I think on the end of Page 4 of this thread. They did not support terroristst from the start. and teaching Islam is not terrorism.

the scolars here are a bit of morons that come up with alot of good things but they also happen to come up with crap from time to time ( verbaly insulting other religion folowers is one of them)

But I do know that the KSA goverment started capturing terrorists at the start of 911. I know because I live here!

Islam is a strate and easy religion, but the folowers tend to be proud of being so. When a ruler (aka Israel) Marches in with tanks and heavy weapons agains't a defensless race and tells them that they can't do anything about it because they have the US of A supporting them and they are just a minority inferior race, People tend to get mad. And too much madness over prolunged periods tend to distort proper judgment. This would continue up to the point of twisting an untwistable religion and then giving it a bad name.



SO the way I see, it. Isrealies will never leave Palistain and Palistiniens will never leave Israel and arabs will continue to hate the USA ( NOTE: USA NOT US citizins) for supporting Israel. And as long as there are Muslims and Jews in this world, IT WILL NEVER STOP!!!!!!!!

But that doesn't mean we ( you and me) can't do anything about.
Let's start by stop hating, stop listinig to biased propaganda media and try to understand one another more


a 6 year old would reason that this is a good act, so why can't we?

 

[Accomplice]

Now that you guys have converted me, I tell people "Islam is 'a religion of peace', haven't you heard?" Then they come back at me with stuff like this...

"ISLAM’S TERRORIST DOGMA,
IN MUHAMMAD'S OWN WORDS

Craig Winn

TO MUSLIMS
MAY THE TRUTH SET YOU FREE

LETTER TO THE READER

Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories. Muhammad, its lone prophet, conceived his religion solely to satiate his lust for power, sex, and money. He was a terrorist. And if you think these conclusions are shocking, wait until you see the evidence.
The critics of this work will claim that Prophet of Doom is offensive, racist, hatemongering, intolerant, and unnecessarily violent. I agree—but I didn’t write those parts. They came directly from Islam’s scriptures. If you don’t like what Muhammad and Allah said, don’t blame me. I’m just the messenger.
Others will say that I cherry-picked the worst of Islam to render an unfair verdict. They will charge that I took the Islamic scriptures out of context to smear Muhammad and Allah. But none of that is true. Over the course of these pages, I quote from almost every surah in the Qur’an—many are presented in their entirety. But more than that, I put each verse in the context of Muhammad’s life, quoting vociferously from the Sunnah as recorded by Bukhari, Muslim, Ishaq, and Tabari—Islam’s earliest and more trusted sources. I even arrange all of this material chronologically, from creation to terror.
Predicting what he called the “Day of Doom” was Muhammad’s most often repeated prophecy. While it did not occur as he foretold in 1110 A.D., it nonetheless came true. Muslims and infidels alike have been doomed by Islam.
To discover why, we shall dive into the oldest surviving written evidence. These official works include: the Sira, Ta’rikh, Hadith, and Qur’an. Ishaq’s Sira, or biography, called Sirat Rasul Allah, provides the lone account of Muhammad’s life and the formation of Islam written within 200 years of the prophet’s death. While the character, message, and deeds portrayed within its pages are the antithesis of Christ’s and his disciples, the Sira’s chronological presentation is similar in style to the Christian Gospels. The Ta’rikh is the oldest, most trusted and comprehensive history of Islam’s formation and Muhammad’s example, called Sunnah. It was written by Tabari. His History of al-Tabari is formatted like the Bible. It begins with Islamic creation and ends with the acts of Muhammad’s companions. Tabari is a compilation of Hadith quotes and Qur’an passages. As such, it provides the best skeleton upon which to flesh out the character of Muhammad and the nature of fundamental Islam. A Hadith is an oral report from Muhammad or his companions. Muslims believe that Hadith were inspired by Allah, making them scripture. The most revered Collection was compiled in a topical arrangement by Bukhari. Allah’s Book, the Qur’an, lacks context and chronology, so to understand it, readers are dependent upon the Sira, Ta’rikh, and Hadith.
All that can be known about Muhammad’s deeds, means, motives, god, and scripture is enshrined in these books. In their pages you will see them as they saw themselves. My only point of departure from Ishaq and Tabari will be the comprehensive review of the early Meccan surahs, a period in which they had very little to say. Our paths will join again as we approach Islam’s midlife crisis: the Quraysh Bargain, Satanic Verses, Night’s Journey, and Pledge of Aqaba—a declaration of war against all mankind. At this point, the Sunnah speaks more clearly than the Qur’an.
So that there will be no confusion, I have set the passages from Islam’s scripture in bold-faced type. When quoting from the Qur’an and Hadith, I have elected to use a blended translation. No language transfers perfectly—one word to another. Five of my twelve translations of the Qur’an were combined to create the most accurate conveyance of the message possible. However, the writing quality is so poor, the proofreaders of this manuscript suggested that I help Allah and Muhammad out by cleaning up their grammar, punctuation, and verbosity. So for clarity and readability, I have trimmed their unruly word patterns and meaningless repetitions, being careful not to alter the meaning or message of any passage. Insertions within parenthesis (like this) were added by the Arabic translators to fill in missing words or to clarify the text. Insertions within brackets [like this] represent my observations.
I have elected to present Islam’s original source material in juxtaposition to my evaluation of its veracity. This format is similar to that used by the first English translators of Mein Kampf as they attempted to warn America about the dangers lurking in Hitler’s manifesto. They, as I, found it necessary to hold the author accountable. A great deal was at stake then, as it is today. The last time the world was ignorant of such a hateful and violent doctrine, 55 million people died. If we don’t shed our ignorance of Islam, many more will perish.
My quest to understand Islam began on the morning of September 11th 2001. I wanted to know why Muslim militants were killing us. So I went off to Ground Zero for Islamic terror—Israel. The West Bank is home to more suicide bombers per capita than anywhere else on earth. I arranged to meet with the terrorists themselves. I asked members of al-Qaeda, Islamic Jihad, al-Aqsa Martyrs’ Brigade, and Hamas why they were killing us. They said, “Islam. We are following Muhammad’s orders.” That adventure is recounted in Tea With Terrorists. It covers a wide range of material and serves as a companion volume, connecting fundamental Islam to terrorism. Prophet of Doom focuses strictly on what the Islamic scriptures have to say.
So, could it be? Could a prophet and a religion be responsible for today’s terrorist attacks? I invested 10,000 hours in pursuit of that answer. I wish everyone had. But knowing that not all are able, I have distilled what I discovered into these pages.
Now for a word of caution: this journey of discovery is ordered chronologically. It is not prioritized by relevance. Explaining the root cause of Islamic terror is the biggest priority; yet it is not exposed until the last half of the book. I want you to know Muhammad, Allah, and Islam before you judge their legacy. So to keep you turning pages, I have endeavored to make Islam’s early years as entertaining as possible. While Prophet of Doom is meticulously researched, documented, and accurate, it's written as if you and I were old friends having a lively chat about the most important and lethal issue of our day.
One last thought before you head down this perilous path. I pray that when you have reached the journey’s end, you will share my heart for the plight of Muslims. I want nothing more than to free them from Islam, and in so doing, free us from the terror their doctrine inspires.

Craig Winn
November 2003
ProphetOfDoom.net


The documented references in Prophet of Doom were derived from English translations of the following ancient Islamic manuscripts. I encourage you to purchase and read them. The Sirat Rasul Allah was written by Ibn Ishaq in 750 A.D. It was edited and abridged by Ibn Hisham in 830 and translated by Alfred Guillaume under the title, The Life of Muhammad in 1955 by Oxford Press. The History of al-Tabari was written by Abu Muhammad bin al-Tabari between 870 and 920 A.D. His monumental work was translated and published in 1987 through 1997 by the State University of New York Press. I quote from volumes I, II, VI, VII, VIII, and IX. Al-Bukhari’s Hadith, titled: Sahih Al-Bukhari and The True Traditions was collected by Imam Bukhari in 850 A.D. I have used the collector’s original nomenclature because the only printed English translation (Publisher-Maktaba Dar-us-Salam, Translator-Muhammad Khan) was abridged and erroneously numbered. Finally, I recommend that you acquire at least three of the following Qur’an translations: Ahmed Ali, Pikthal, Noble by Muhsin Khan, Yusuf Ali, or Shakir. The oldest Qur’an fragments date to around 725 A.D.—a century after they were first recited."

 

[Bryant95]

Just like that poor sikh guy who was shot and killed right after 9/11 because some moron saw a brown guy in a turban.

Balbit Singh Sodhi (1949-2001)

In the first fatal hate crime after 9/11—I mean, after 9/11, which was itself a hate crime—a lunatic attacked Sikh American, Balbir Singh Sodhi. That murder was evil.




http://www.cnn.com/2001/US/09/16/gen.mesa.shooting/

 

[Bryant95]

.... IT WILL NEVER STOP!!!!!!!!

Why are Arab-Americans and Jewish-Americans willing to accept the idea of a two-state solution?

Why is the climate of hostility so great that you are resolved to endless killings?

The Middle Eastern and the European media--from what I hear--are both so hostile to Israel, that people simply speak of endless war, or the destruction of the Jewish state.

Truth is, Muslims probably have better opporunities and mroe social acceptance in America than in Western Europe, yet Western Europe is a huge critic of Israel.

The two regions--Western Europe and the Middle East--have made Israel a scapegoat. No matter how oppressed Muslims are in Europe, or in the Middle East, they see their problem as Israel. Who benefits from this? Their European and their Middle Eastern oppressors.

It's scapegoating, and Israel has become the collective Jew, blamed for other people's problems.

 

[Arshad]

Come on dude, this is the best you can come up with? Some anti-islamic hate site? Where the author freely admits to altering the translations because "the writing quality is so poor, the proofreaders of this manuscript suggested that I help Allah and Muhammad out by cleaning up their grammar, punctuation, and verbosity. So for clarity and readability, I have trimmed their unruly word patterns and meaningless repetitions, being careful not to alter the meaning or message of any passage."

That in itself should put up some warning signs that what he's going to present is his own altered and biased interpretation of what was written. His inaccuracies start from his very first sentence where he proclaims that Mohammed is the religions sole prophet. Nothing could be further from the truth, as Islam embraces all of the prophets through time, including Moses, Jesus, Abraham and others.

Bottom line is that there are all kinds of wacko's out there, with their own agendas, and anyone with an IQ over room temperature can put up a website. Google will find you countless anti-islamic, anti-christian, anti-semetic, anti-anything sites. FOR EXAMPLE: This topic was started for the senseless and violent killing of Richard Berg. Well, here's a site, which presents 'evidence' that concludes that Americans were behind his killing.

http://marc.perkel.com/archives/000233.html

Since it's on the internet, it MUST be true right?

 

[Bryant95]

...... IT WILL NEVER STOP!!!!!!!!
...

I'm sorry, it doesn't mean that you cannot criticize an Israeli policy, but.... Do you really think this is all inevitable? Unchanging?

I don't know if we should simply assume that the Irish & English, & whoever else are simply meant to fight, and there's no way of improving the situation.

 

[Bryant95]

Since it's on the internet, it MUST be true right?

Remember when people said the internet would make so much information available?

We may need to back away from the debate about Islam--since the religion encompasses not only the Koran and the Hadith (collected sayings of the Prophet Mohammad, as recalled by friends and acquaintances), but also centuries of jurisprudence.

There will be a lot of different issues, and contrasting remarks. There are 4 major schools of Islamic Law in Sunni Islam, and they different on such issues as the acceptabilitiy of a non-Muslim's testimony.

You can find a liberal depiction of Islamic tradition that basically approaches fenimism, or a more conservative interpretation that is hardly feminist at all.

In the meantime, we have hooligans in Europe--who are not particularly observant Muslims, nor or they particularly well-informed about their nominal faith. They do get an odd blend of skinhead propaganda (Sure, skinhead Nazis dislike Jews and Muslims both, but their propganda crosses over and is popular with some extremists), Middle East broadcasts like Al-Manar (Hezbullah's tv station), and Europe's own jaundice version of things.

On top of that, they have high unemployment and a lot of other problems. The issue for these kids is not "Islam"--it is this other thing, this contraption, a Frankenstein monster with pieces of different dead bodies sown together--Nazi propaganda, hate speech, the "blood libel." (The blood libel is the accusation that Jews kill children and drink their blood, a falsehood borrowed from Medieval England)

It is this thing we should address.

 

[Arshad]

You make a lot of valid points Bryan. Anyways, I come to this forum to talk about the NSX and this is really veering off into left-field. BTW, does Accomplice even own an NSX?

Anyways, I think I've expressed some of my views here which I believe to be the majority opinion of muslims, even though I really did not expect it to change the way anyone percieves the religion or its people. Individuals who have a hate for another religion or a race or a people will likely always have that hatred .. whether it's against muslims or against Israel or against the US or whatever -- it all stems from ignorance.

 

[Accomplice]

Can't we all just come together and find a group we can all despise? How about those people who feel the need to keep all of the miniature stuffed animals on display in the rear window of their cars? I say we focus our negative energy on them and heck, we can even blame them for terrorism if you guys are up for it. They say its the 'hobby of peace' but I'm not buying it.

 

[Arshad]

Yeah I hate those guys too! Ignorant or not, let's do it

 

[Accomplice]

Arshad,

Not to derail the thread but are those Volks in your avatar? If so, can you feel a difference from the reduction in unsprung weight? My FX has 42.5 lb. wheels. I've found some forged replacements in the same size that are 23 lbs. each. I'm thinking that they would provide a very noticeable improvement in performance and maybe even gas mileage.

 

[Arshad]

Kevin,

Yep those are Volk LE37T's. In my case, I went from the OEM 15/16's to the Volk 17/18's, and there isn't a huge delta between the two in weight, although I do feel a bit of a difference with the car being marginally slower now. (OEM 15x6.5/16x8 are 15.2lbs/18.9lbs, and the 17x7.5/18x9.5's are about the same weight, but I've also got much wider tires now too with 215/265 vs 205/225 which adds to the weight). I hope to make that up next week once I install my DC headers and Tubi.

In your case, going from the monster 42.5lb OEM wheels to 23lb forged is going to be *HUGE* That translates to a hell of a lot of unsprung weight and you should definitely be able to notice the difference in acceleration.