This is truly the most disturbing thing I have ever heard

[Accomplice]

You do seem to be a little dense, so let me clarify it again, in real simple terms:
The Muslim religion has not made it a goal to destroy civilization.Just because some radical dipshits are claiming it is being done in the name of Islam, doesn't make it so.

Maybe you've heard of the Ku Klux Klan. Did you know that they don't like blacks, Jews, Hispanics, etc? Do you know in whose name they commit their crimes and spread their hate? The white people!

I got news for you: I'm white, and they're not speaking for me. I don't know for sure, but I believe the majority of white people don't agree with them either. However, they're still around. So, can we infer from this that all white people support them? Should we nuke Birmingham, Alabama?

In this case, you may not be a racist, but you sure show a lot of prejudice. When you stereotype and generalize about a group of people based on their affiliation to a religion, that is PREJUDICE!

When you finally realize that our beef is with terrorists, and not with the general population of the Muslim faith, you will hopefully be a little more rational.

Like you said, the KKK does NOT enjoy a wide base of support in its homeland. What you fail to grasp is the scope and breadth of support of radical Islamists in their homeland. I'm not claiming that I've never pre-judged a person or situation. We all do and it’s a part of our survival mechanism. When you see a snake on the ground and hear its rattle you pre-judge it to be dangerous based on your past experiences / education. I have no doubt that regardless of your race you've pre-judged some people you've had to walk past on a sidewalk at night. Without some ability to use prejudice we'd be less equipped to survive. Using that word as if it should have a universally negative connotation shows your ignorance. My beef is with terrorists. Its also with all the others who refuse to have a beef with terrorists.

 

[Accomplice]

You do seem to be a little dense, so let me clarify it again, in real simple terms:
The Muslim religion has not made it a goal to destroy civilization.Just because some radical dipshits are claiming it is being done in the name of Islam, doesn't make it so.

You are the dense one sir. Let me explain some things to you. Religions are not entities capable of declaring anything. They are belief systems. Followers of certain belief systems may make declarations however. So, no I've never said that any religion has done anything of the sort. My contention is that followers of the Muslim faith at large are not doing enough to control the extremists in their midst. Those radicals that they ignore, condone or possibly even assist would indeed like to see an end to modern civilization. You should be ashamed of yourself that you don't know all of this by now.

 

[Accomplice]

Once again, you need to make up your mind.

In an earlier post, you thought "...its almost shocking that a couple of Arab states bothered to put out a press release to say it was a wrong..."

So, which one is it, should they be showing outrage, or should they keep quiet, because it's obvious that it's wrong?

One thing is curious: I have seen plenty of reports where Muslims are expressing their outrage at the beheading, and asking that you do not associate them with the terrorists that did this.

If you ignore that, I guess you can make your argument that they all support it. Ignoring facts and reports that don't support your ideas seems to be your thing.

The shocked reaction I mentioned was coming from AMERICANS who are not used to abuses of that nature. I wasn't saying that there was any broad reaction of shock on behalf of any Islamic state regarding the beheadings. There were the politically necessary press releases from a few Islamic states. I did acknowledge those as I mentioned in my earlier post. And yes they get a happy cookie for saying that taking people's heads off is a bad thing.

 

[Accomplice]

One thing is curious: I have seen plenty of reports where Muslims are expressing their outrage at the beheading, and asking that you do not associate them with the terrorists that did this.

If you ignore that, I guess you can make your argument that they all support it. Ignoring facts and reports that don't support your ideas seems to be your thing.

I never made the argument that they ALL support it. My argument is that 1. far too many do support it and 2. far too few who do not support it actually do anything to stop it. I won't ignore the comments made by some Muslims condemning the beheading. In fact, I'll applaud them especially if it becomes a popular stance in those regions.

 

[Accomplice]

Please find the report that mentions that poll, and let us know the source. Until you can, I trust your word about as much as I did the story on burying extremists with some pork sausages.

It was mentioned by a male contributor on Fox or CNN back in Sept. or Oct. of 2001. If I could recall the person's name I would gladly provide it.

 

[Bryant95]

Food for Thought

You do seem to be a little dense, so let me clarify it again, in real simple terms:
....Maybe you've heard of the Ku Klux Klan.
....I got news for you: I'm white, and they're not speaking for me. I don't know for sure, but I believe the majority of white people don't agree with them either. However, they're still around. ...

Please, the below report mentions an ESTIMATE, so please consider it with caution. Thanks

January 3, 2002, BBC News: "Osama baby craze hits Nigeria:"
"In one hospital in Kano, where there were celebrations after the 11 September attacks, seven out of 10 babies are said to be being given the name Osama."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1741171.stm

 

[Bryant95]

You raise interesting points, and let me agree with the intent of your first remark: "People need to learn how to live with each other."

I think we must distinguish between the example of the Prophets and the traditions that build up over time.

There was a loophole in the Pact (dhimma), which led some people to think that they had a right to humiliate or slap Jews and Christians, since the dhimma forbade them from striking at all.

This was not from Mohammad's teaching. This was simply a loophole in a later document.

People need to learn how to live with each other


...Now, Muslims take Mohammad's actions as their religious ideals. In the whole story of Mohammad, Not once did he assault a Jew, break his windows, abuse him verbally or do any thing to show hostile content. He was a gentleman who showed great humanities to others and not once did he act in a lower manner to any of the other religions that existed around him.

.... Abusing people of other religions and suicide bombings and terrorist acts against civilians was never ever in the Islamic religion. But who cares, after all, the media just loves to defend Muslims don't they.

 

[nkb]

Like you said, the KKK does NOT enjoy a wide base of support in its homeland.

Exactly! Yet, they still exist, and they still continue to do what they do. Therefore, the fact that people with extreme viewpoints are around, does not mean you can draw a conclusion as to what the rest of the people around them think. Just because the KKK invokes the name of the white race, doesn't mean the white race supports them. Yet, that seems to be enough for you to condemn the entire following of the Muslim faith.

What you fail to grasp is the scope and breadth of support of radical Islamists in their homeland.

I obviously do not have the immense cranial capacity that you do (how else to explain my failure to understand the brilliance of your "Destroy Mecca" plan?).
What are you basing your firm grasp on? Do you work at the CIA, or have some sort of additional information that we don't? I have a suspicion that you do not. So, how is it that you know so much more about this situation than everyone else here?

Using that word as if it should have a universally negative connotation shows your ignorance.

Definition from Merriam-Webster:

2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

Yes, prejudice is a negative word. But what do they know?

Your example of the rattlesnake is a terrible analogy, and is not an example of prejudice. It is a fact that rattlesnakes are poisonous and dangerous to humans, and that they are more likely to bite when they rattle.

A better analogy for prejudice would be, if you see a snake, you automatically kill it, because it might be poisonous.

My beef is with terrorists. Its also with all the others who refuse to have a beef with terrorists.

Your beef appears to be with terrorists, and anybody that YOU assume supports them.

 

[nkb]

There were the politically necessary press releases from a few Islamic states.

Were the statements by our government and military about the prison abuses also politically necessary press releases?

 

[Bryant95]

A better analogy for prejudice would be, if you see a snake, you automatically kill it, because it might be poisonous.

YOU assume supports them.

Are you proposing that we ask a snake to slip out of a line, so security can determine that it is in fact non-poisonous, then let the snake proceed through the checkpoint? Are supporting "profiling"?

Just kidding.

In 1986, British security at Heathrow checked the luggage of an Irish women--a pregnant Irish woman! Can you imagine!?

She was about to board a flight to Israel. Her Jordanian boyfriend had given her a nice going-away present--a bomb.

It's funny to think the poor girl was probably telling herself, "They're just checking my bags because I'm Irish!"

LOL! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/2097352.stm

 

[Accomplice]

Exactly! Yet, they still exist, and they still continue to do what they do. Therefore, the fact that people with extreme viewpoints are around, does not mean you can draw a conclusion as to what the rest of the people around them think. Just because the KKK invokes the name of the white race, doesn't mean the white race supports them. Yet, that seems to be enough for you to condemn the entire following of the Muslim faith.

I never said that I was drawing blind conclusions about the people around radical Islamists. Anybody can tell that radical Islamists enjoy a much wider support system than that of the KKK. On top of that, as bad as the KKK is, the Islamists are evil on an entirely different (i.e. murderous) level. If either of those facts is not obvious to you, you are not equipped to engage people in discussions about those topics.

 

[Accomplice]

I obviously do not have the immense cranial capacity that you do

Hey, we actually agree on something!

 

[Accomplice]

What are you basing your firm grasp on? Do you work at the CIA, or have some sort of additional information that we don't? I have a suspicion that you do not. So, how is it that you know so much more about this situation than everyone else here?

I suspect that a lot of people who watch the news and follow current events have a bit more information than you appear to have.

 

[Accomplice]

Definition from Merriam-Webster:

2 a (1) : preconceived judgment or opinion (2) : an adverse opinion or leaning formed without just grounds or before sufficient knowledge b : an instance of such judgment or opinion c : an irrational attitude of hostility directed against an individual, a group, a race, or their supposed characteristics

Yes, prejudice is a negative word. But what do they know?

You aren't capable of seeing that the first definition they gave is closer to the neutral use/ definition that I mentioned about the word? The definition they gave proves my point. In fact your narrow view of the word's usage (its negative use) is SECONDARY to my description of one possible use.

 

[Accomplice]

Your beef appears to be with terrorists, and anybody that YOU assume supports them. [/B]

Again, if you can't extract the nature and depth of the support system behind radical Islam by examining facts readily available to you then you are choosing to be ignorant. At this point, operating on the assumption that radical Islam does not have a large support network in Islamic states would be a MUCH bigger stretch than to acknowledge that it does. Why don't we start a poll and see how many people think that radical Islam has a pretty wide base of support in the Islamic states. You might find that very few people choose to ignore that fact.

 

[Accomplice]

Were the statements by our government and military about the prison abuses also politically necessary press releases?

Absolutely. I'd say even politically crucial.

 

[Accomplice]

Re: Food for Thought

Please, the below report mentions an ESTIMATE, so please consider it with caution. Thanks

January 3, 2002, BBC News: "Osama baby craze hits Nigeria:"
"In one hospital in Kano, where there were celebrations after the 11 September attacks, seven out of 10 babies are said to be being given the name Osama."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/1741171.stm

Hey be careful posting facts like that in this thread. You're making it very difficult for certain people to ignore/ deny/ fail to understand that 9/11 was celebrated by many Muslims. NKB: remember its only an estimate. I'm sure they're way off on that figure. It was probably only six out of ten babies that were being given the name Osama.

 

[Bryant95]

....
I have no information about what is being taught in Islamic schools, so I can't comment on that.
...

If you wish, please consult the Middle East Media Research Institute (MEMRI) for the keyword "textbooks."

MEMRI Special Dispatch Number 12 reports of Saudi textbooks, "A textbook for 8th grade students explains why Jews and Christians were cursed by Allah and turned into apes and pigs."

This, of course, is an overstatement of Koranic verses that refer certain segments, not necessarily all memebers--but we may disagree with any interpretation of such a remark as generally unacceptable. It was not a statement about all people of any faith.......

To give credit, we should say that a Saudi editor, Turki Al-Sudeiri, a member of the royal family, retracted and repudiated a journalist's use of the blood libel--the horrible accusation that Jews kill Gentile children to drain their blood for ritual, a myth borrowed from Medieval Europe.

Al Sudeiri remarked, "I checked the article and found it not fit for publication because it was not based on scientific or historical facts, and it even contradicted the rituals of all the known religions in the world, including Hinduism and Buddhism."

Good for him!

The textbook report is from 2002. A current survey of texts may reveal a different scenario. The first post below is on the textbooks, the second is on recent changes in Middle Eastern media that suggest a return to truthfulness is on the way.

Note: Recent surveys of American textbooks have found gross inaccuracies--wrong dates being one of the most embarrassing findings. This is not to equate one thing with another.

http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=sr&ID=SR01202 http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA13503 http://www.hti.umich.edu/cgi/k/koran/koran-idx?type=simple&q1=apes&size=First+100

 

[Bryant95]

......

Al Sudeiri remarked, "I checked the article and found it not fit for publication because it was not based on scientific or historical facts, and it even contradicted the rituals of all the known religions in the world, including Hinduism and Buddhism."

......
http://memri.org/bin/articles.cgi?Page=archives&Area=ia&ID=IA13503

I try to include a reference that does not incriminate a region or people or government, when there is an occasion to offer some remark to counter the negative.

I think religion and politics are interesting topics, and the board is a unique opportunity to hear from people from all over the world--and offend them. I hope that hasn't happened, as a waste of an interesting opportunity.

 

[steveny]

We also don't drink any kind of alcohol, don’t do any kind of drugs and we consider smoking a bad thing. We don't sleep with a woman we are not married to. We don't flirt with demon we are not married to. And Gayness, child molesting, porno videos, paid sex, stealing and all so non ethic acts are absolutely forbidden with an iron fist.

Didn't the investigators of the 9/11 incident find that the people who carried out the acts on 9/11 were in a strip club drinking a few nights before 9/11 occured? Things that make you go Hmmmm!

 

[cmhs75]

I have never heard of a Muslim belief that they will not go to heaven if they come into contact with pig's blood, or if they get buried with a pork chop. Now, it may be true, but common sense, and the fact that I have never heard about it from my friends, makes me question it.

cmhs75, if you could verify or refute this claim, it would be appreciated.

As I mentioned before, the only relation between Islamic teachings and pork, is that we don't eat it, anything else is crap.

When a Muslim gets berried with blood he doesn't go to heaven!? What I hear this it reminds me of superman and kryptonite, but that's a comic book this is real life. You can't hurt a dead person or change his destiny by what you do to him after his death.


So no this is nonsense.

 

[cmhs75]

Didn't the investigators of the 9/11 incident find that the people who carried out the acts on 9/11 were in a strip club drinking a few nights before 9/11 occured? Things that make you go Hmmmm!

You mean the same guys who ran a whole airplane full of innocent civilian passengers into a building that is considered to be a monument of human beings great technological advancement which happens to be full of innocent civilians by the thousands? Killing all including themselves which also happens to be a crime in Islam

Yeah those guys must be the standing pillars of Islam, even though they are low life thugs by anyone's standards say for satin himself.

But hey, who cares about what a Muslim has to say. To make it clear, I'm25 years old, and I don't even know what alcoholic beverages smell like let a lot ever tasting or drinking them. And yes, I did travel out side of KSA including USA itself. And I studied in a collage full of British and Americans, and I had a very very good relationship with all of them and so did they, we were living OK.

By the way, my father is having a good friend of his over for dinner today. He is American. It's kind of funny, because I could have sworn that I didn't see my father sharpen any butcher knives or ready some plastic explosives for our guest tonight. But, oh well, I guess we must be a glitch in the Islam system.

 

[cmhs75]

cmhs75,

The information about the virgins in heaven comes directly from the terrorists. You can interpret that as you wish.

You said it yourself; you heard all this virgin bull@#$hit from the terrorists themselves.

Now a logical question, if these terrorists represent Islam and KSA, then why is the KSA government's working day and night to capture them? And why are these terrorists bombing Muslim civilian people here in KSA. We had a huge explosion three weeks ago and it was at a traffic control center with a lot of civilians getting killed and of course they were all Muslims. So by your logic, the Islamic religion teaches Muslims to kill Muslims?!

There must be something wrong here, don't you think?

 

[cmhs75]

cmhs75,

However I can learn enough about the interpretation and application of the religion by zealots by turning on the evening news and seeing them kill people in its name. I can also draw conclusions after seeing those zealots celebrated by the native population at large rather than detained and put to death. .

No you can't.

Islam is contrived of the the holy book of Qura'an and the books that contain the sayings and actions of the prophet Mohammad. That is Islam.

The wholly book is a 600 page book that has been memorized by thousands of Muslims for 1400 years up to this day. I personally met at least 100 people who memorized it up to every single letter. And once you add them together it is absolutely impossible to fault them

The other books that contain the sayings and actions of the prophet Mohammad, are also largely memorized but to a lot less extent then the Qura'an. Now for the shock, these books were memorized by Arabs but were only written by non Arabs!

So Arabs do not represent Islam and their actions and what they teach at school does not represent Islam. It only represents their interpretations of it. And in the hands of a twisted bunch who have been fueled by decades of anger over what's happening in Palestine and the USA support of all of it, they're sure to twist the facts of the religion to their own liking which has become ugly with so much hatred.




So for all this, I still stand to my word. Don't associate the Islamic religion to the evil that has been done falsely under its name.

Turn off your TV set, put down your news paper and go grab a short good book on Islam and read it! That's called a reliable source unlike the Media.

 

[steveny]

To make it clear, I'm25 years old, and I don't even know what alcoholic beverages smell like let a lot ever tasting or drinking them.

So alcohol is bad? Why? If you have never tried it yourself how would you know?

This is one of the many reasons I despise most all religions. Most religions are all about control and dictation. Very few allows the individual to think for themselves. If Islam has convinced you that alcohol is bad without you even have so much as sniffed the cap from a beer, what will they convince you of next?
Make your own decisions, think for yourself.