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Unofficial Big-Wheel Thread: 18/18 and 18/19 - the future for NSX tire sizes

I do have one.

All the tire categories are a subjective mess. I wouldn't worry about it. Maybe because the tire is so good at everything else.
 
I enjoy the PSS on mine with 100% confidence in the rain. A very communicative tire in feel with out the tread noise.
 
Rope what sizes are you running?
 
205/45r17 front and 255/35r18

I was not ready to go full bore on 25" diameter front tire yet and want to slowly go that route and see what needed to be adjusted on the car to accept the larger tires. I do not currently run TCS nor have for 3 years.
 
I've asked this before but I don't think I got a real answer. Anyone know how the ABS system works exactly? I know the TCS really likes to see a limited ratio but does ABS care about the ratio? If one does not care about TCS (whch I am disabling constantly at the track), wouldn't that allow more leeway in ratios? I mean the speedo is already going to show slow so that's already off...
 
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The abs uses the wheel speed sensors to measure wheel speed and to look for an impossible rate of deceleration. Just prior to locking up, a tire will make a rapid reduction in speed causing the abs to release the brakes on that wheel.
 
The ABS has a predetermined strategy that not only looks for individual wheel lockup, but initial rate of deceleration of the entire car, brake pressure, the front to rear ratio, and many other factors which can limit even the total deceleration rate of the car (due to high Downforce and slicks) even if a tire is not locking up.

Yes the ratio does affect the ABS. The question is to what degree. Which I've said way too many times, won't be known until properly tested. As far as wheel speeds go, most production cars read 3-5mph fast, so the larger diameter might make the speedo read true. Use a GPS to verify.

Turbo, you are really stretching and searching for someone to tell you what you want to hear despite tons of important, measured, and calculated information and facts.

So I'll tell you what you want to hear: with all due respect, from watching your videos, you are probably not driving your car at a high enough degree for any of this to matter, so go ahead and ignore all the advice you've received and do whatever it is that you want. In time where your talent improves, you may run into issues but for now, you probably wouldn't notice a difference or any issues. You've been given enough information to make a good decision. Good luck.
 
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^^^^^lmao
 
Billy I've really tried to be respectful to you as always but you need to cool it a little. If you don't want to answer a question, don't. But if I ask because I'm trying to understand the functionality of something, that's what the forum is for. I'm really wondering if you'd talk to me this way in person. You know a lot and no one is questioning that, but I don't get why on every post you have to make some negative comment toward me when I've not once said anything disrespectful to you.

This sucks because I always liked you and really valued the information you provided. I was planning on having you do some coaching for me. It's not my intention to create bad feelings between us but please understand that not all people are the same, we all have various personalities and go about things differently.
 
What exactly are you looking for? I think between myself and others you have all the I formation you need and you do not really ask any new questions other than fishing for an answer that you want to hear.

If anything, I've spent a ton of time researching this for my own car and am sharing the information with the community and yourself so you don't end up spending more and more money on setups that will not work. For example, if someone can run a 19x10.5 + 20 with -4* of camber and a 265/30-18 Falken (which runs narrow), your ideal 275/35-19 with a track-ideal (say) -2* of camber will not fit. I've expressed concerns of various setups for you to take that for what it's worth and make an educated decision for yourself.

As far as driving goes, my comment was not intended on offending you but to objectively point out that you might not be at the driving ability to recognize a possible abs issue due to a ratio problem until you are in the position where you need the abs and end up in the wall. Some of this stuff shouldnt be taken lightly when it comes to safety. Your car is more than fast enough to get you in real trouble and you do not want to screw up the fundamentals just because you want something that will fit easier, be 4lbs lighter, or look cooler at the cost of your own safety.

From a speed standpoint, a Stoptech kit would be more than enough for you at the moment. However I respect the "bug" needing to modify your car, be unique, have cool ceramic rotors, etc... And there's nothing wrong with that. However you are paving the way on a new setup (and beating me to it) and are ignoring some important information that will cause you to spend more money on a setup that will not work. You also don't seem to like wheel spacers and if you're not conservative with some front offsets and if you can't get your caliper CAD file to your wheel guy to ensure it'll fit, you will again be spending more and more money.

People here are trying to help you...
 
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I always have the itch to jump into Dave's questions but I also share the same mindset as Billy so I generally just sit back.

To Dave, we all want to help you but most of the time it does seem like you're looking for confirmation on a particular thought/direction that's brewing in you. It can get frustrating for us because sometimes it defies common logic but I suppose in a good way.

It still confuses me why don't you just buy a 12C or a Scuderia instead of punishing yourself with all this. Then it dawned on me... You don't consider it punishment. You probably consider it a challenge and draw lots of enjoyment from the process. Good luck amigo!

FWIW... I've always said keep the stoptechs. The carbon kit you have is not worth all this. Just remember... It's summer now! You should be driving not dicking around with this :)
 
I "get it" for the ceramic rotors. Heck, i'd love to have them too. However like Dave, I am also running a 14" rotor and that in turns puts us into new territory that no one else has been. It also puts us into a very small box wheel & offset wise (as you know Regan), especially under DF fenders.
 
Billy the problem is that I am a detail-oriented person, and want to know and understand how things work for myself. If you tell me 18x8.5 et 36 at -3 camber with xyz tire, I want to know why. It doesn't mean that I don't trust you. Hell I've expressed my trust in your judgment explicitly on this forum more than anyone. Perhaps a lot of people will just say thanks and do your suggestion, but I feel like I have to understand things for myself. It's just my personality. I certainly don't mean any disrespect.

There are more important things in life than wheel fitment on a car and to me it's not a reason to get annoyed with someone. I guarantee you many of my questions are in the minds of others. I even started my own thread so as to not "bother" you. I tried to PM you but your inbox is full. I actually put in effort to NOT upset you.

A couple of months ago I was very ill and wound up in a hospital. So many people here PM'ed me and asked about my well-being and offered help... and I was so humbled at their concern for me when they've never even met me. That is a lot more important than wheel fitment or ABS questions. I don't want you and I to argue over some petty shit that doesn't even matter. I remember 2-3 years ago I was with my girlfriend's family during some holidays and I made them all change the channel because I said "my friend Billy Johnson is driving on TV I have to see how he does". I look at you as a friend.

If my questions came across as not trusting your judgment, then know that's not what it was... and if an apology is in order, then accept my apology. What I don't want, is to feel like I am walking on eggshells because a question comes to my mind and I want to ask. You don't have to answer them if you feel you already have. Also understand that our priorities might be similar, but are not the same. Your are a professional race car driver, I am just a hobbyist who fiddles with his car. I am fully aware that I did not "need" ceramics or that a tire that is 4 pounds lighter may not make an ounce of difference in my lap time. But it is part of my hobby. Looking for that lighter tire is part of my hobby. I want there to just be some mutual respect here. If I haven't said it already.... I truly appreciate the information and insight you've always provided.
 
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I too apologize if I offended you. Others have expressed concerns as well and I personally would feel somewhat responsible if you had an issue and accident from going down a path that I knew wouldn't work. We aren't talking about going from a 205 to a 215 on a spec miata, you have a very fast car and are pushing boundaries that I myself have not tried and am just giving cautionary advice since I don't know what will happen with various ratios. Heck, we could possibly run the same diameter F-R and the ABS system could handle it, but I doubt it.

Since you're not driving a spec miata, and driving a car that's probably faster than my racecar, it's important to get the fundamentals down (setup and driving wise) because building off a bad foundation (setup or driving wise) can be very bad in a fast car. If you had a 12C or 458, they have amazing stability systems that will save you. Your NSX is built to a very high performing level, but it'll do what you tell it to - whether you tell the car to do something good or bad, it'll do it and won't save you.

I'm not giving you a hard time about your ceramics. I think it's cool. But like you, we are both in a large caliper, 14" rotor box. RYU and I have done a ton of work to correlate wheel width to offset, camber, tire sizing, etc... From this work, I gave you some #s on what would be close and what would be 'preferable' to give you enough clearance to not have to buy a new wheel and tire as well as have enough room to adjust your cambers in the future according to how your setup is performing. If you try to hit an offset # just because someone else has, but it limits your camber, then you greatly compromised the on-track handling of your car just to hit a #, or because you were looking at 1 factor and not the whole package.

Same thing for tires. One minute you 'need' R-compounds, then the next you're talking about a lower performing street tire that's 4lbs lighter than a much better performing street tire. I'm all for research and the 'journey', but I think it's important for you to clearly define your goals to yourself and build off of that.

I have no problem answering your questions and advocate you and others do so, that is what a forum is for and I hope to help out the community. You can email me at anytime at [email protected] and please do so. I wasn't aware of your hospitalization and hope you recovered and everything is well, I agree there are more important things out there than car parts, but it's a passion and hobby for me too. I don't have to be on this forum, but I really like the NSX platform and enjoy being apart of the community and helping others, especially when trying new things, busting misconceptions, and providing objective data on areas that are not well known. I also hate spending 2-3X the money on something because of cutting corners or not doing my homework, and hope to help others prevent from doing it as well.
 
Turbo, you are really stretching and searching for someone to tell you what you want to hear despite tons of important, measured, and calculated information and facts.

So I'll tell you what you want to hear: with all due respect, from watching your videos, you are probably not driving your car at a high enough degree for any of this to matter, so go ahead and ignore all the advice you've received and do whatever it is that you want. In time where your talent improves, you may run into issues but for now, you probably wouldn't notice a difference or any issues. You've been given enough information to make a good decision. Good luck.

What exactly are you looking for? I think between myself and others you have all the I formation you need and you do not really ask any new questions other than fishing for an answer that you want to hear.
From a speed standpoint, a Stoptech kit would be more than enough for you at the moment. However I respect the "bug" needing to modify your car, be unique, have cool ceramic rotors, etc... And there's nothing wrong with that. However you are paving the way on a new setup (and beating me to it) and are ignoring some important information that will cause you to spend more money on a setup that will not work. You also don't seem to like wheel spacers and if you're not conservative with some front offsets and if you can't get your caliper CAD file to your wheel guy to ensure it'll fit, you will again be spending more and more money.

People here are trying to help you...

I always have the itch to jump into Dave's questions but I also share the same mindset as Billy so I generally just sit back.

To Dave, we all want to help you but most of the time it does seem like you're looking for confirmation on a particular thought/direction that's brewing in you. It can get frustrating for us because sometimes it defies common logic but I suppose in a good way.

1000000% agree with both Billy & RYU. Super frustrating seeing most of Dave's posts and our replies go completely ignored because they don't fall in line with the direction he wants to go. Seen it multiple times.
Dave, enjoy the car you have and quit f&%king with it. It's WAY beyond your ability and has so much adjustability in it now that you can spend the whole rest of your life trying to make it perfect with the parts you already have.

I saw this quote from the Offset thread that Dave had:
You obsess over the wrong numbers frequently and have a bad case of analysis paralysis. I'd pick a better tire even if it was 4lbs heavier.

You definitely obsess over the wrong numbers, at least the wrong numbers for the goals that you generally state... Sounds to me like the numbers you're chasing after are lap times, but you're doing so in the wrong way. Getting all the lightest/newest/coolest/most expensive parts does absolutely nothing if you have no driver skill and as Billy stated, you probably have plenty of time to make up in just learning there. You'll shave tons more time off your laps with just improvement in your driving.

I know I've said it a few times before, but I'll say it again.. Keep the car as is.. leave it alone and work on your driving. :smile:
 
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lol ..you guys are getting sucked into Dave's modification black hole.....This happens every time we have had the usual guys who have become fast on track offer advice to Dave who takes us all to his event horizon and scares the crap out of us..:biggrin:....on the flip side I love Dave's enthusiasm for the nsx and his love of the hobby.Most important performance mod is the driver...and some folks are just quicker....but I'm not sure Dave is in search of that..I think he is more in search of just having a car under him that is completely without any perceived weakness/liabilities/questions...ect.
 
There's nothing wrong w.that John. I just don't want to see anyone go down a path that could lead themselves to spend a bunch of money for no reason when I know something won't work, or worse: something won't be safe. If someone has the time, money, and talent to test on new grounds, I'm eager to hear the results, but I can't see myself suggesting or allowing someone to try something that could potentially end up really bad.
 
It would be more awesome if we trusted each other and acted upon sound internet advice...but like many of the old timers I had to rely on myself. I've done many of my mods as trial and error or by doing things I knew would work because someone else had done it. I share Dave's gratitude that you are involved in prime because you live this stuff more than any of us.You have learned much from people who do all this for a living..you get to feel the results of the engineering and experiments that go into making cars as fast around a track as possible...and for that I'm grateful.
 
There are 2 run flat tires in the max performance 225/275 category. Should this even be considered? Otherwise for me the decision is NT05 or Pilot Super Sports.

The Nittos are cheaper.

Any preferences?
 
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I think this thread is going to invaluable for others looking to set up their cars to perform on a track and that's thanks to Dave for starting it and everyone that has contributed to it. I have subscribed so I have it for reference. Thanks Gentleman
 
Here is some info I have come up with comparing the factory 17/17 wheel (being that my car has the NSX-R ABS module that used these sizes) comparing these to a common 17/18 setup some people use and a size I am considering trying that is very close to the factory ratios as you can see from my data. Anyways the factory wheel/tire size date might be helpful for some when comparing sizes.

Factory tires:

215/40/17:
Width= 215mm
Diameter= 604mm
Radius= 302mm
Circumference= 1897mm
Sidewall= 86mm

255/40/17:
Width= 255mm
Diameter= 636mm
Radius= 318mm
Circumference= 1997mm
Sidewall= 102mm

Circumference ratios:
R/F= 1.052
F/R = 94.99%

Front to Rear Splits:
46/54

Current Nitto NT01s
235/40/17:

Width= 235mm
Diameter= 620mm
Radius= 310mm
Circumference= 1947mm
Sidewall= 94mm

275/35/18:

Width= 275mm
Diameter= 650mm
Radius= 325mm
Circumference= 2041mm
Sidewall= 69mm

Circumference ratios:
R/F= 1.170
F/R = 85.45%

Front to Rear Splits:
46/54


Proposed tire sizes:
245/35/18:

Width= 245mm
Diameter= 629mm
Radius= 314mm
Circumference= 1975mm
Sidewall= 86mm

285/30/19:

Width= 285mm
Diameter= 654mm
Radius= 327mm
Circumference= 2053mm
Sidewall= 85mm

Circumference ratios:
R/F= 1.039
F/R = 96.20%

Front to Rear Splits:
46/54
 
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I think this thread is going to invaluable for others looking to set up their cars to perform on a track and that's thanks to Dave for starting it and everyone that has contributed to it. I have subscribed so I have it for reference. Thanks Gentleman

I didn't start the thread, Billy did.
 
There are 2 run flat tires in the max performance 225/275 category. Should this even be considered? Otherwise for me the decision is NT05 or Pilot Super Sports.

The Nittos are cheaper.

Any preferences?
I don't like runflat tires. Just keep a can of fix-a-flat and tire slime in your car and you'll be good.

Proposed tire sizes:
245/35/18:

285/30/19:

Circumference ratios:
R/F= 1.039
F/R = 96.20%

You can see that these sizes in 18/19 are much closer to the OEM rotation ratio and the front rear split than the Nitto NT01s sizes a lot of people are running. That and the 235/40/17 NT01s measure almost 30mm over in width. They are just ever so slightly taller in diameter 4.5mm in the front in radius, and 2mm in the rear. I have seen people have put as much as 315s under the rear fender. I know camber will have a lot to do with fitting the tires. I am also running the df wider front fenders. I really do not want to run wider rear fenders right now. I personally have never really liked how any of them look, hope no one takes offense to this just a matter of person opinion. Now I just need to look through all this info and figure out what diameter wheels and offsets would work best.
A 1.039 is slightly outside the factory ratios and is a bit further away from the 02+ ABS ratios. It's also in the grey area of possibly being acceptable but not confirmed.
 
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