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Group Buy Variable Manual Rack - Feel a little F1 tech in your hands
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Tim, I am in for the $25.00. See where this goes. For those who have EPS today and think manual steering is never an option: Stefan Rzadzinski, a professional race driver with an F1 competition license drove my 1991 with manual steering and couldn't get over how good the car felt and that it went exactly where it was pointed on the track. The steering today may be slower, but the manual feel is outstanding.
Thx Dave for the FB post.
Warren - Thx for the valuable input. We hope we can reach a higher qty. for a revised quote so a new housing can be made to be a complete R&R without shipping the oem rack back and forth for re-fit.
On another topic, we spent today at http://www.sampelongbeach.org/ for a bridge building/crushing contest. One of our bridges held over 10K lbs of force before it made a BANG! Another took over 7K lbs and rested.
There was a violin there made from spread-tow was pretty cool. Also met an old friend working at Swift Engineering....too bad they sold their wind tunnel at a fire sale. We'll see if they can help us in the future.
Ponyboy - On the way home we stopped by EMI Racing and chatted with Erik. He showed us a "no-part number" spool-valve Penske shock that cost $12k ea.
and wt. just a few pounds. We will be working with him in the future once he caught up with his back log...ya right! We are slow but we will deliver. Even Penske in PA told us to wait for his shocks if all possible. The man is that good.
Warren - Thx for the valuable input. We hope we can reach a higher qty. for a revised quote so a new housing can be made to be a complete R&R without shipping the oem rack back and forth for re-fit.
On another topic, we spent today at http://www.sampelongbeach.org/ for a bridge building/crushing contest. One of our bridges held over 10K lbs of force before it made a BANG! Another took over 7K lbs and rested.
There was a violin there made from spread-tow was pretty cool. Also met an old friend working at Swift Engineering....too bad they sold their wind tunnel at a fire sale. We'll see if they can help us in the future.
Ponyboy - On the way home we stopped by EMI Racing and chatted with Erik. He showed us a "no-part number" spool-valve Penske shock that cost $12k ea.
and wt. just a few pounds. We will be working with him in the future once he caught up with his back log...ya right! We are slow but we will deliver. Even Penske in PA told us to wait for his shocks if all possible. The man is that good.Attachments
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I'm in for $25
Penske has a spool valve now? I was under the impression that Multimatic/Dynamic Suspension (DSSV) was the only people doing spool valves (patent?)
I'm in for $25.
Penske is in pa? Maybe I should swing by and check out their shocks! On that note put me down for the $25 Tim.
Yes. I held it in my hand in awe. Standard pretty Penske gold and all. You should know:smile:, you drive for multimatic and on the outside it looks like this but who knows what the inside looks like per "patent". You're lucky, DSSV suppose to be the damper of choice in the big race coming up for you. MRC has one too. Perhaps at this time, Multimatic has a bit of advantage due to their development cycle than the rest of the field. In any case, it just shows how important the damping is on a car more than just spring rates and it is more sexy buying parts by the grams than by the pounds.:wink: Only wish I had an extra kidney to sell.
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Yes. You should stop by. They will even give you a shop tour and teach you about valving. Be careful, you may end up building your own shocks right on the spot. Basically, EVERY shock they build, its all different, there is no such a thing as off-the-shelf Penske so that tell you a lot about the sensitivity of Penske shocks. We have been waiting close to two years for EMI to build us a set of shocks. Erik is constantly in high demand. The spool-valve Penske is going on a crazy Pantera project. Ya, we know. steel chassis/cage and not a great one JMO but you know how that goes.
This is the best analog damping technology avail. we want to experience it before we kick the bucket. Ryan Rush has a set on his near stock 93 and his time of 1:39 at Laguna Seca proofs its worth every penny.
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Yes. You should stop by. They will even give you a shop tour and teach you about valving. Be careful, you may end up building your own shocks right on the spot. Basically, EVERY shock they build, its all different, there is no such a thing as off-the-shelf Penske so that tell you a lot about the sensitivity of Penske shocks. We have been waiting close to two years for EMI to build us a set of shocks. Erik is constantly in high demand. The spool-valve Penske is going on a crazy Pantera project
. Ya, we know. steel chassis/cage and not a great one JMO but you know how that goes. This is the best analog damping technology avail. we want to experience it before we kick the bucket. Ryan Rush has a set on his near stock 93 and his time of 1:39 at Laguna Seca proofs its worth every penny.
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Count me in for $25.
In for $25.
If the OEM manual rack is variable ratio already, what are you thinking about changing the ratios to?
We have little experience in this area. We just want a higher tech, quicker, variable ratio rack to improve the overall driving experience. We are the "client" in this case and the client only "think" they know what they want but don't "know" what they should have in terms of the math/vehicle design parameter in steering. IMO, better wait for MVO recommendation. We are depending 100% on their feedback. At least we know we have the right vendor and the battle is half over.:wink:
We want to get it right just one time v. 1.0(the best we can) as there won't be ANY design review (v.2.0) to speak of due to added cost. This also means a complete rack with housing is the best solution for everybody(manual oem and EPS oem) but it also means we need the numbers to work. If this is achieved, MVO is happy to entertain the RHD folks with minimal cost(if any) as its a mirror image.
So far we are getting positive support from MVO(kinda like Motec) they understand its a very special niche car and people need time to decide on such an important upgrade. They know the only way to feel what the chassis is doing is feedback from the steering unlike many digital cars now days are like playing a video game. so we'll do our best to make it work and the rest is up to Prime..one person at a time.
Tim,I proposed this on the FB thread that [MENTION=14678]TURBO2GO[/MENTION] started. If needed, I'm happy to put in $50 so you can get the list from 1000 people to 500. A few other folks are ok with this too.
+1 for me. Yes, I know I'm back from the dead. Playing with airplanes.
I've been trying to get a time with Erik for weeks but everytime he has an open slot he gets called away to a race or is under the weather or something. Super nice guy though. I didn't know Ryan has the latest Penskes on his car??? I thought he's been running the same old Penske he's always had (which are still awesome).
Yes. I held it in my hand in awe. Standard pretty Penske gold and all. You should know:smile:, you drive for multimatic and on the outside it looks like this but who knows what the inside looks like per "patent". You're lucky, DSSV suppose to be the damper of choice in the big race coming up for you. MRC has one too. Perhaps at this time, Multimatic has a bit of advantage due to their development cycle than the rest of the field. In any case, it just shows how important the damping is on a car more than just spring rates and it is more sexy buying parts by the grams than by the pounds.:wink: Only wish I had an extra kidney to sell.- - - Updated - - -Yes. You should stop by. They will even give you a shop tour and teach you about valving. Be careful, you may end up building your own shocks right on the spot. Basically, EVERY shock they build, its all different, there is no such a thing as off-the-shelf Penske so that tell you a lot about the sensitivity of Penske shocks. We have been waiting close to two years for EMI to build us a set of shocks. Erik is constantly in high demand. The spool-valve Penske is going on a crazy Pantera project
Ponyboy - On the way home we stopped by EMI Racing and chatted with Erik. He showed us a "no-part number" spool-valve Penske shock that cost $12k ea.
12k per shock is just a little out of comfort zone. Now, if you can get it down to $11,999 we may have a deal.
I should be done with my doctorate by the time Erik calls you back so count me in when a suspension package is complete.
On a serious note, when I first brought up a Penske suspension set to Erik, it was quite the illuminating experience. He asked a thousand questions (all good ones) for which some I didn't have answer to.I hope to hear some good news out of MVO and EMI. Keep up the good work, Tim!
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I don't presume to speak for Tim but as one of the $25 members, I think it may be beneficial to wait for the final number of total entrants and then determine if the group wants to divide the remainder of the proposed R&D costs equally among themselves. The end result may be less than another $25 and the division of investment is shared equally.
Did you say what you saw at Penske was what you posted a pic of? -because you posted a pic of a Multimatic DSSV.
Yes, most of the top F1, LeMans Prototypes and top level sports and formula cars use DSSV dampers. So does the new MX5 cup cars! They're pretty amazing, esp the F1 dampers.
Yes, most of the top F1, LeMans Prototypes and top level sports and formula cars use DSSV dampers. So does the new MX5 cup cars! They're pretty amazing, esp the F1 dampers.
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I don't presume to speak for Tim but as one of the $25 members, I think it may be beneficial to wait for the final number of total entrants and then determine if the group wants to divide the remainder of the proposed R&D costs equally among themselves. The end result may be less than another $25 and the division of investment is shared equally.[/QUOTE]
Shawn, This is the kinda math we like. Simple. since we don't know the final number for the R-phase yet, your method makes the most sense. We'll do the same for the D-phase as well. Your phd algorithm is brilliant for us common folks to understand:biggrinsorry, couldn't help it).
Erik is detail by nature and 1000 questions because the NSX chassis is stiff and responsive and it makes a difference when you use a high quality shock like Penske AND among other things, It can/needs to be shown on the force vs velocity graph so this is the right approach to set up a shock. He has the data, the talent, the dyno, the passion for set up cars and he is a rare find. Penske has no data on our NSX so they show us the door to EMI. We will continue to wait for his service and lucky he is not that far from us. He is not a marketing kinda guy so stuff like this will take a while as none of us are in a racing class that pays. Do things right the 1st time will save a lot of money and time JMO.
Yes, this pic here is a Multimatic DSSV. I "should've would've could've" took a pic as my Nikon was in the car but it was a genuine gold Penske thru and thru not a poser from Asia. However, they do look very similar. Since Erik casually mentioned it has "no part number" so I did not press to take a pic. It was the real deal and Penske won't sell stuff like that to anybody just because they can afford it:wink: because after all, it is a Blackart. MX5 cup cars too? This shows how critical damping/valving is to allow drive a slow car fast is more fun than the other way around. Just keep it to yourself. (not if that matters) don't go around the pits making rumors and piss off your multimatic engineers cuz they know how to make you slower & your co-driver faster:smile: We are just a bit sad its for a Pantera made out of good old steel.
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PM answers:
1) Not to question your business integrity, P2F is a new vendor on the block less than 2 yrs old, how do we know our money is safe with you?
We are not like some vendors in the past who took your money and went to Mexico or bought a new car. Our 2nd motto is: We are slow but we will ship
MVO is not in a third world country and they don't sell bling.
We know this might very well be the only place on any car forum a steering rack discussion have started such a response. Its not about hp, you can't show it off and its not sexy. If you are not comfortable with this kinda of proposal, its better not spend the money now but wait until all the R&D is done and see if you like the feedback, then decide.
Shawn, This is the kinda math we like. Simple. since we don't know the final number for the R-phase yet, your method makes the most sense. We'll do the same for the D-phase as well. Your phd algorithm is brilliant for us common folks to understand:biggrin
sorry, couldn't help it). Erik is detail by nature and 1000 questions because the NSX chassis is stiff and responsive and it makes a difference when you use a high quality shock like Penske AND among other things, It can/needs to be shown on the force vs velocity graph so this is the right approach to set up a shock. He has the data, the talent, the dyno, the passion for set up cars and he is a rare find. Penske has no data on our NSX so they show us the door to EMI. We will continue to wait for his service and lucky he is not that far from us. He is not a marketing kinda guy so stuff like this will take a while as none of us are in a racing class that pays. Do things right the 1st time will save a lot of money and time JMO.
Yes, this pic here is a Multimatic DSSV. I "should've would've could've" took a pic as my Nikon was in the car but it was a genuine gold Penske thru and thru not a poser from Asia. However, they do look very similar. Since Erik casually mentioned it has "no part number" so I did not press to take a pic. It was the real deal and Penske won't sell stuff like that to anybody just because they can afford it:wink: because after all, it is a Blackart
. MX5 cup cars too? This shows how critical damping/valving is to allow drive a slow car fast is more fun than the other way around. Just keep it to yourself. (not if that matters) don't go around the pits making rumors and piss off your multimatic engineers cuz they know how to make you slower & your co-driver faster:smile: We are just a bit sad its for a Pantera made out of good old steel.- - - Updated - - -
PM answers:
1) Not to question your business integrity, P2F is a new vendor on the block less than 2 yrs old, how do we know our money is safe with you?
We are not like some vendors in the past who took your money and went to Mexico or bought a new car. Our 2nd motto is: We are slow but we will ship
MVO is not in a third world country and they don't sell bling.
We know this might very well be the only place on any car forum a steering rack discussion have started such a response. Its not about hp, you can't show it off and its not sexy. If you are not comfortable with this kinda of proposal, its better not spend the money now but wait until all the R&D is done and see if you like the feedback, then decide.
I am in.
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